Blown Turbo=Blown Motor?

[1of1547]

I've been reading alot trying educate myself on Subarus. One thing that really disturbs me is that if the turbo lets go that more than likely the it willl also need a short block. Why would the turbo letting go take the engine out also?

I really don't understand why the two go hand in hand. I've blown turbos on my Buick and my Fathers Cummins in his Ram. On both accounts I just bought a rebuild kit and rebuilt them. Put back them on and they are still running. They basically just needed new seals. Well except the first turbo that blow up on my Buick. Something hit the compressor wheel and tore it to pieces. That one wasn't rebuildable. LOL Do Subarus eat the bearings and send them through the motor? Or do the seals go out and it sucks all the oil out of the motor?

Thanks,

[ChrisCrash]

I think you hit the nail on the head yourself, biggest problem is if the turbine breaks into pieces and gets sucked back into the engine.

[FLlegacy]

Its not a given that one is cause for the other to be replaced as well, the type of failure matters. If a turbine wheel breaks, they I would assume it was a bearing or shaft failure which caused the turbine to let go, hence, an impending engine failure because of particulates in the oil. But truth be told, you could also tear the block down check everything out and then replace bearings, rings, and seals and clean the hell out of it and call it good. Depending on mileage this is probably a good thing to do anyway. If you can do it yourself you are looking at a couple hundred dollars in parts and a couple days in time.

 

If something hit the turbine wheel and broke it off and sent it through the engine, I would just pull the heads and inspect them it most likely would get wedged in the tgv or valve. Check for broken parts, analyze oil, replace/repair what needs it, put it back together.

[GTEASER]

Our VF54 turbos don't have nearly the same failure rate that the VF40 did on the 4th Gen. The thing with the VF40 is that the bearings fail, and then the shaft breaks, and so do the impeller and turbine blades, in spectacular fashion, and then numbnuts owners drive with it that way for a while versus shutting it down immediately. Thus all the horror stories of #ynansb in the 4th Gen section.

 

I had a TD04 fail and seize on my Forester and I found no metal particles in the oil anywhere, changed the turbo, changed the oil, been good for 4k miles now and I don't expect any issues.

 

Prevention....pull your TMIC on occasion to check for puddles of oil, an indication that you're getting blowby from a bad turbo seal....keep your ears open for weird noises, turbos don't just fail, they start making noise first.....monitor your engine with an AccessPort for proper boost levels, AF Learning, AFR, Knock, etc to keep yourself informed.

[FLlegacy]

The turbo location on the 4th gen along with how the oil feeds it probably doesn't help either.

[JF1GG29]

When your turbo starts making noise, park it and change it before it takes a dump.

[dgoodhue]

The turbine is technically the exhaust wheel, so that doesn't affect the engine, those pieces would end up in the catalytic converter. The compressor wheel is on the intake side. I am not sure the compressor wheel pieces are as big of deal going through the combustion chamber, either. It is common on that the intake tube on my Syclone gets brittle and breaks at higher mile, when plastic gets lodged into turbo, it chews and breaks off small pieces of the compressor. I have probably seen atleast 25 instances of this happening and I can't remember anyone have to rebuild their motor because of it.

[JF1GG29]

Prevention....pull your TMIC on occasion to check for puddles of oil, an indication that you're getting blowby from a bad turbo seal....keep your ears open for weird noises, turbos don't just fail, they start making noise first.....monitor your engine with an AccessPort for proper boost levels, AF Learning, AFR, Knock, etc to keep yourself informed.

 

Just want to piggyback on this great comment regarding turbo failure. Journal bearing turbos rarely 'just fail'. In fact, they are extremely reliable so long as: 1. they get oil, AND 2. the oil is CLEAN and no foreign particulate gets into the journal. On top of their reliability, in the case of turbochargers, when they start to fail, you get a LOT of noise. 100krpm of un-lubricated metal-on-metal is a noticeable sound.

 

Here is a (loud) youtube video of the TD04 in my WRX:

 

Once you start hearing sounds like that, your clock is ticking. It would be best to park the car and source a replacement turbocharger before a secondary, usually catastrophic, failure such as a snapped turbine shaft, broken compressor or turbine blades, etc., occurs. But even before the compressor blades start to make contact with the housing, you'll have noticed lowered boost levels, increased lag, etc.

 

And the last bit is worth reiterating: keep yourself informed.

[1of1547]

Thanks for the info guys. I was wondering if this was the norm and why. So it's just another Subaru urban legend. Just like any other turbo motor maintenance is very important. Clean oil, good filters, and being observant the key.

[GTEASER]

 

I had a TD04 fail and seize on my Forester and I found no metal particles in the oil anywhere, changed the turbo, changed the oil, been good for 4k miles now and I don't expect any issues.

 

 

Just an update. I changed the oil in my Fozz this weekend, first change since the turbo seized, 4k miles on oil, and in the bottom of the oil drain pan was fine glitter. I am sending an oil sample in to Blackstone and I can compare the results with the sample from the oil that was drained when I changed the turbo. I am hoping it is just some residual bearing material from the turbo that failed that finally made its way down to the drain pan. I cut the filter apart and found no glitter in the filter. I'm hoping it's not crank bearing material, but the Blackstone report will help me determine that. I have no other issues, so nothing leads me to believe that anything is wrong.

[1of1547]

Wow that sucks!!! Keep us updated.

[JF1GG29]

Just an update. I changed the oil in my Fozz this weekend, first change since the turbo seized, 4k miles on oil, and in the bottom of the oil drain pan was fine glitter. I am sending an oil sample in to Blackstone and I can compare the results with the sample from the oil that was drained when I changed the turbo. I am hoping it is just some residual bearing material from the turbo that failed that finally made its way down to the drain pan. I cut the filter apart and found no glitter in the filter. I'm hoping it's not crank bearing material, but the Blackstone report will help me determine that. I have no other issues, so nothing leads me to believe that anything is wrong.

 

Ouch. Blackstone will most likely tell you that doing major repairs can result in some metals ending up in the oil pan or in the filter. Probably what's more important is the next oil change at a much shorter interval (1000 miles-ish). Then they can determine if there's accelerated journal wear. Good luck -- hope it's a fluke!

[GTEASER]

^^ You're the second person to mention to me the next change/report at 1000 miles. Why 1000? If there was 4000 between reports, why not stick to 4000 miles to get an accurate comparison of metal content over the same time and mileage?

[JF1GG29]

You can get the next analysis at 4k, but if there is serious bearing failure, you probably don't want to drive it the full 4k OCI to find out.

[GTEASER]

^^ I knew you were going to say that but was curious if there would be additional reasons.

[JF1GG29]

I did an oil change in my motorcycle the other day. It looked like someone had glitterbombed my crankcase. I didn't need an oil analysis to see that I have a potential problem on my hands. So, in order to rule out a fluke, I'm going to do an UOA with a shortened interval to see if the issue is ongoing. When you see a bunch of bronze-colored metal flakes in your oil, you tend a freak out a bit. If you're calm enough to wait the 4k, then, by all means.

 

I was also thinking that it's possible that during the turbo swap, some foreign matter got into the oil feed, maybe causing a bit of galling on the bearing surface?