JayRex - 05 LGT Engine and 5EAT Rebuild

[Max Capacity]

I looked at the first number in your last picture and was trying to figure out how 0.070 -.0330 be the gap, then I realized it was mm not inches.

[jayrex]

I looked at the first number in your last picture and was trying to figure out how 0.070 -.0330 be the gap, then I realized it was mm not inches.

 

Can't say I haven't done it. Went looking for a giant sized feeler gauge the other day, didn't understand why it wasn't in the set.

[jayrex]

Pistons arrived a day early!

Not sure on this yet. There is an indication on the piston for 'front', I don't know why I would need this warning if I put the front of the piston in the correct orientation.

 

 

Piston paperwork said .0030" suggested Piston-to-Wall clearance.

Everything was right on, maybe just a bit over, like .0032" but they were all the same. The .004" feeler gauge was a no-go on all.

 

 

Installed the main bearings. Machine shop said to wipe everything down with paint thinner first. Block and bearings.

 

These are the numbers for both the crank and main bearings from King.

[jayrex]

Checking the End Ring Gap was stressed by the machine shop. Measuring this was not as cut and dry as I had hoped. I used sandpaper taped to a putty knife to widen the gap, which worked fine. The feeler gauges had a large jumps in between size ranges. So .018, .020, .022, making things difficult to get .0215". Not that it really mattered because the rings move a little when you go to measure them, which is where the accuracy suffered a bit. I erred on the side of a little big rather than risk binding up the ring. I mostly had to play with the 2nd ring, the top ring was good, if not a bit large, right out of the box.

 

 

Rings on, lots of details in the instructions on placement of the gaps.

 

 

Crank in non-sealer side case half.

 

 

Ultra Grey Sealer, and assembly lube.

 

 

Pistons In. The pins were a little tricky at times, mostly because the rods won't stay upright and in place for you, and there's no good way to get your hands on them. I wiggled the pin while wiggling the front crank at the same time.

Buy a piston ring compressor, DIY is junk, ask me how I know.

Its annoying enough with the proper tool.

 

Water pump, Oil pump, rear main seal, and sensors and things are on now too. I'm going to put it on the stand soon, but I'm still waiting on the replacement head gaskets.

 

FYI: don't push your rear main seal in too far, it just goes flush with the outside of the case. Ugh, 1 min of googling could have saved me 2 hours of annoying!

[Max Capacity]

Great progress. Yes, most of us would go to a larger ring end gap based on what we've learned here.

[jayrex]

Wondering if I should clay check the valve pockets. Would be a real PITA. These pistons say they have 'extra valve clearance'.

[Max Capacity]

Unless your using high lift cams, there should be no need to do that.

[jayrex]

Unless your using high lift cams, there should be no need to do that.

 

Thanks, that makes sense.

Will do if I ever upgrade the cams, but those are not really on the 'future list' right now

[jayrex]

Have the shortblock on the stand and a few more parts added.

 

 

The pickup tube weld looked good. I know there is concern with these breaking (later years??), this one looked good and I even tapped it with a hammer a bit and looked for cracks. All good.

 

 

Baffle and pickup installed.

 

 

Pan on. Painted this with high temp paint after some sanding. Paint cracked a little while tightening the pan bolts, but I'm over it.

 

Here is what it looked like before!

[jayrex]

Finally getting the long block put together.

 

I was doing a final valve lash check, after torquing everything down, and found some tight and loose tolerances. I moved some buckets around, but I just couldn't get this one valve right.

I was picking some gaskets up at a local Subaru parts place, and brought the offending bucket with me (507). I asked if they had any spare used ones hanging around, and the guy brings out this huge box of random buckets. Lets me trade in mine for a 501. So if you are in need of different size buckets, head over to your local Subaru dealer, I bet they will hook you up.

 

 

 

 

I was a bit confused with the cam seals at first. Had to do some googling. The AVCS ones are the skinny seals, and the fat ones are for non-AVCS. Makes sense once you look at the back of the AVCS sprockets.

 

AVCS (top - intake)

non-AVCS (bottom - exhaust)

 

Install them into the block and then add the cam sprockets. I know this is obvious to most, but I didn't get it right away because of the gap it left around the cam, and its not clear in the fsm.

Torque spec for all cam sprocket bolts: 21 ft-lb and then add 45 degree tighter.

 

Side note: The first gasket kit from Advance Auto (since returned) had the wrong cam seals in it. All 4 were the same size and didn't fit anything. I think it was a full Felpro brand kit.

 

Ended up having to buy a head gasket set separately because the warranty return/exchange on the damaged ones never arrived, never even reshipped replacements, now its going to be this massive hassle via Amazon to get it settled.

EDIT: Did end up getting the replacements after an additional phone call. They never would have sent them otherwise. =/

[birkhoff]

In addition to getting the larger cam seals in the right place (intakes) you probably noticed that it is quite tricky to get the AVCS sprocket pins aligned with the cam nose. As you push in, first you have to clear the cam seal lips -- a bit of resistance there. Don't confuse that with the pin. Further in, the pin needs to engage the hole on the sprocket body. There is a notch on the outside of the cam gear that aligns with the hole in the sprocket body. If you first mark the front of the block for the pin position, and then align that with the outside for the cam gear you have a good chance of hitting the pin pretty close. Do NOT use the cam bolt to draw in the gear until you are absolutely sure you have seated the pin! The pin is hard and the cam body soft. Big mess if they foul.

 

Once seated, torque is as you say. How did you hold the cam gears for torquing up? You don't mention, but the same trick with an old cam belt works, just as it did for taking things apart.

[rebourne]

Fantastic documenting!

[jayrex]

In addition to getting the larger cam seals in the right place (intakes) you probably noticed that it is quite tricky to get the AVCS sprocket pins aligned with the cam nose. As you push in, first you have to clear the cam seal lips -- a bit of resistance there. Don't confuse that with the pin. Further in, the pin needs to engage the hole on the sprocket body. There is a notch on the outside of the cam gear that aligns with the hole in the sprocket body. If you first mark the front of the block for the pin position, and then align that with the outside for the cam gear you have a good chance of hitting the pin pretty close. Do NOT use the cam bolt to draw in the gear until you are absolutely sure you have seated the pin! The pin is hard and the cam body soft. Big mess if they foul.

 

This is a great point. Thanks for bringing it up. I actually saw very little resistance from the seal when placing the AVCS cam sprocket on the shaft, but I lubed it up pretty good with assembly lube. (They are OEM seals)

 

For the alignment I just eye-balled the orientation and spun the sprocket until it seated, as the pin will not settle into any of the other holes on the cam. After I was sure it was seated, I double checked by spinning the sprocket until I felt the cam lobes come into contact with the valves. I also looked at the distance between the sprocket and rear timing cover, they are super close when fully seated.

 

Once seated, torque is as you say. How did you hold the cam gears for torquing up? You don't mention, but the same trick with an old cam belt works, just as it did for taking things apart.

 

I held the cam with an old timing belt and two vice grips.

 

During disassembly, to break the bolts loose, I just left the old belt on. The gears did not skip even with a breaker bar w/ 3 foot cheater pipe. I used an impact rated 10mm hex socket. No issues there.

[Max Capacity]

Just a reminder, your leaving the filters out of the banjo bolts aren't you ?

[jayrex]

Just a reminder, your leaving the filters out of the banjo bolts aren't you ?

 

Actually I like to triple up the filters, that way I know everything is super clean and oil free!

 

Took those bad boys out within a week of owning the car, there wasn't anything in them. I bet after messing with everything now they might start to collect a little something though.

[birkhoff]

Sensing a flame war here . . . but willing to step in gingerly . . .

 

This whole thing about the banjo filters confuses me. Have you looked at the hard pipe from the flange fitting to the turbo banjo? Unlike the other fittings, the turbo end has like a 0.5 mm passage drilled into the banjo head.

 

This make perfect sense; you cannot run full pressure/volume oil into a turbo with limited radial shaft sealing. The restriction makes sure that you have a significant pressure drop and (I only guesstimate here) a few psi of oil supply at the floating bearings in the CRH even if you have 80 psi of mainline oil.

 

Ok, so we delete the filter at the back of the head to make sure oil is flowing freely into the turbo. Actually, we can only be sure the flow is making it to the banjo fitting. The smallest bit of duff that makes it that far now has to make it through that little hole. What is the chance it clogs the hole trying to do so? What next?

 

With the filter in place, which is probably 1cm^2 in area, and admittedly very fine, that little piece of duff along with a lot of smaller stuff will sit there, maybe for a very long time until there is a problem. I know about the service bulletin but i do wonder what the engineers that designed the original system think about this advice.

 

As far as protecting the AVCS gear, especially on the LH bank that has nothing related to turbo, having pulled a couple of those gears apart, it seems quite reasonable to put in the filters to protect the mechanism. Clog the filters, your timing goes off and you pull a CEL. Should be pretty easy to figure out the where to look for the trouble. The gears are intricate internally and expensive to replace.

 

I acknowledge that the many posts here about the wisdom of deleting the filter(s) would indicate I'm completely missing something. What something?

 

Full disclosure: on a stock rebuild, with stock turbo, I left the filters in.

[birkhoff]

This is a great point. Thanks for bringing it up. I actually saw very little resistance from the seal when placing the AVCS cam sprocket on the shaft, but I lubed it up pretty good with assembly lube. (They are OEM seals)

 

For the alignment I just eye-balled the orientation and spun the sprocket until it seated, as the pin will not settle into any of the other holes on the cam. After I was sure it was seated, I double checked by spinning the sprocket until I felt the cam lobes come into contact with the valves. I also looked at the distance between the sprocket and rear timing cover, they are super close when fully seated.

 

 

 

I held the cam with an old timing belt and two vice grips.

 

During disassembly, to break the bolts loose, I just left the old belt on. The gears did not skip even with a breaker bar w/ 3 foot cheater pipe. I used an impact rated 10mm hex socket. No issues there.

 

Well done. Sounds like you avoided this by being sensibly cautious. After I did one correctly, and messed the second one up, I notice the FSM says, in a nutshell ``be careful.'' It doesn't mention the alignment marks.

 

Look at the depth of insert. Confirm the engagement of the cam wrt the gear, as you did. Only then, tighten things up. I did not take this care the second time,

leading to about 1 hour of messing around with numbered drills trying to resuscitate the pin bore. I was lucky to salvage the cam gear.

[jayrex]

Look at the depth of insert. Confirm the engagement of the cam wrt the gear, as you did. Only then, tighten things up. I did not take this care the second time,

leading to about 1 hour of messing around with numbered drills trying to resuscitate the pin bore. I was lucky to salvage the cam gear.

 

Had I really thought about what would happen if I tightened the cam out of alignment, I might have been even more careful. That sounds like a nightmare.

 

Similar to pushing in your rear main seal too far after just buttoning up your short block.

[Max Capacity]

Sensing a flame war here . . . but willing to step in gingerly . . .

 

This whole thing about the banjo filters confuses me. Have you looked at the hard pipe from the flange fitting to the turbo banjo? Unlike the other fittings, the turbo end has like a 0.5 mm passage drilled into the banjo head.

 

This make perfect sense; you cannot run full pressure/volume oil into a turbo with limited radial shaft sealing. The restriction makes sure that you have a significant pressure drop and (I only guesstimate here) a few psi of oil supply at the floating bearings in the CRH even if you have 80 psi of mainline oil.

 

Ok, so we delete the filter at the back of the head to make sure oil is flowing freely into the turbo. Actually, we can only be sure the flow is making it to the banjo fitting. The smallest bit of duff that makes it that far now has to make it through that little hole. What is the chance it clogs the hole trying to do so? What next?

 

With the filter in place, which is probably 1cm^2 in area, and admittedly very fine, that little piece of duff along with a lot of smaller stuff will sit there, maybe for a very long time until there is a problem. I know about the service bulletin but i do wonder what the engineers that designed the original system think about this advice.

 

As far as protecting the AVCS gear, especially on the LH bank that has nothing related to turbo, having pulled a couple of those gears apart, it seems quite reasonable to put in the filters to protect the mechanism. Clog the filters, your timing goes off and you pull a CEL. Should be pretty easy to figure out the where to look for the trouble. The gears are intricate internally and expensive to replace.

 

I acknowledge that the many posts here about the wisdom of deleting the filter(s) would indicate I'm completely missing something. What something?

 

Full disclosure: on a stock rebuild, with stock turbo, I left the filters in.

 

 

Not to flame, just saying, seems the fix to make the turbo last longer 05-06's is...remove the banjo filters.

 

It's your engine you can do what you want.

 

Seems the 07-09's done have the same issue with those filters. I think its because they are vertical, so oil drains out of them and pulls whatever may be caught there out.

 

My 09 Spec B has the filters left in, my 05 has both removed.

 

If I'am ever in that area in my 09, I will remove the filters. You have an oil filter that will remove any particles that will cause normal damage.

[jayrex]

 

The belt is on... for the second time.

 

Don't forget to put your AVCS line on the left hand side before you put your rear timing cover on. That was a sad moment when I realized what I did (err.. didn't do).

 

Had to take off the timing belt, re-clamp the tensioner, take off the sprockets, and the rear cover. Just to put one banjo bolt in. And then do the timing all over again, which felt the need to fight me even harder the second time.

 

Working on fitting the Free Range Racing silicon hose kit. I think that was $250 shipped.

 

Most of my hoses were awful. it would have been difficult to reuse them, and probably more expensive to buy all new OEM. ...and dealing with all those part numbers. He mentioned 2 or 3 of the hoses were missing due to production error, I'll pickup some OEM ones when I get that far. I think one is the long valve cover breather hose.

[jayrex]

Finally got her up and running.

 

Ran into some issues with the power steering pump connections leaking, no surprise there. I carry a Power Steering Curse. Just can't escape PS issues. As of now it appears leak free =/

 

I had some issues with the shift select cable, partly due to me accidentally hanging the trans from it (missed a bolt). Some other bits of it were corroded, so that was replaced.

 

A small coolant hose leak, I think is fixed now. I need to fire it back up tomorrow to see.

 

Biggest problem right now is P0700 and P0712 trans codes. May be nothing, may be a big problem. I think I need to do a reset and put some miles on it. Maybe some air pockets stuck in there... wishful thinking.

 

Last thing for now - Engine is pretty noisy. I don't know what a forged piston motor should sound like on startup. It was just barely warmed up when I had to turn it off (the coolant leak). Maybe its piston slap, maybe its a crappy first time engine build; not really sure at this point. Could be valves, but I was pretty thorough with the valve lash check/adjust. Definitely some tapping going on in there somewhere.

[jayrex]

Currently battling transmission gremlins.

 

Engine seems to be running well, although I only have a few miles on it due to the transmission issues. If you want to see info on that nightmare, check out my 5EAT thread linked in the first post. Short story: won't shift into 4th gear, swapping valve body to see if culprit, may end up pulling trans out if that doesn't go well.

 

Engine quiets down quite a bit after fully warmed up. Definitely still has some piston slap, but I don't think it sounds anything like rod knock (had that before in an NA forester). I'm using my old etune, but I will be working on my own once I flush out the gremlins... and eat them with bbq sauce.

[jayrex]

Just a little update to finish off this thread. (long overdue)

 

Fixed up the Tranny issues a week or so after the last post. Tranny was slipping before with moderate throttle and now its rock solid. Haven't even put the modified valve body back in after repairing it.

 

The engine is running great. Burning almost no oil(.25 qt/OCI)... big improvement from 6+qts per OCI.

 

Might be a little loose on the piston to wall clearance, making it a little sensitive to false knock at low rpm. Pretty 'clacky' with a cold start up, but smooths out nice when its up to temp. I still need to do a compression test and an oil analysis to confirm I didn't botch the whole thing up, but everything looks good for now.

 

Recently put on a one piece header/uppipe and a cheap FMIC.

http://imgur.com/a/Xce1T

 

Relocated the battery to the trunk, deleted my roof rails and painted the roof. Removed my windshield and fixed some window-roof area rust that was starting (botched window install from previous owner).

 

Currently running E85 on 20lbs of boost. Self tuned. Lovin' it.

[Max Capacity]

Glad to hear it running well, enjoy it.

[jayrex]

Update: She's dead Jim. Its bad.

 

It was going pretty strong, but something let go in it last month. Its too cold right now to pull the trans out, so I'm not sure exactly whats going on. Car will not move in any gear, and it sounds like someone dumped a bunch of rocks in it. Absolutely FUBAR. It does not sound like the rear diff.

Based on the sound, I can't imagine its rebuildable.

I'm not 100% sure I'm buying a new one yet, but if anyone has or knows of a cheap 05 or 06 5EAT let me know. I see them around for about $600-$800. I think the number on mine ends in WABA. I'm in New York State.