Another '09 OBXT rebuild

[jeepurz]

<sigh> As luck would have it, I'm 3 months past my 7 year extended warranty, sitting at 90K miles and the rod bearing(s) decided to give up the ghost. I tried working with Subaru of America but they would only potentially offer financial help if a dealership removed the engine and performed teardown and investigation. Dealer said SOA would 'at best' only help with 50% if they helped at all. Since I've performed most oil changes(with factory filters) I knew SOA would use that as leverage against me to not pay. I'm not bitter, they're trying to run a profitable business and I was past the official warranty, but I am a little frustrated. A 90K mile engine should NOT blow chow if well maintained and not beat on like a rented mule. AND, the heads were just rebuilt by the dealer 10K miles ago under warranty for a burnt valve on cylinder 4 which is common on these EJ25 engines. Too many issues right at/around the end of the warranty. Water under the bridge....

 

 

My plan is for a stock replacement. I'd love to go stage 2 but my pre-issue plan was to sell the car anyway, so this was REALLY bad timing.

 

Since I've got another vehicle to drive and time on my hands, I decided to do it all myself. Got the engine ready to pull in about 4-5 cautious hours with the factory service manual, then could NOT seem to get the block and tranny(auto) to split. It would split on the top drivers side but not the bottom passenger side. I think it was just the angle my hoist was lifting at, 4 hours later and a night to sleep on it, once adjusted so the bottom stud in the block was in better alignment, it came loose with some significant pull/push force. I managed to really tweak my back in the process, so the score is now OBXT 2: me 0.

 

Started dis-assembling things to make sure it was really the rod bearings, and ran into a couple issues, some self-induced, some not.

 

 

 

=> I broke the plastic adjustment sleeve on the Alt bracket because I forgot to loosen the hold nut(READ the f'ing manual you idiot....). OBXT 3 : me 0

 

=> Things progressed well until I got to the hoses held on by those funky clamps that you need a special tool for. Vise-grips and twisting solved that but I'll have to replace with standard hose clamps even though the original are reusable if you have the tools. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

=> Drivers side top end came off easily and with the head removed I validated it was the No. 4 rod that let go. With the crank turned past TDC I pushed on the piston and it moved a good 1/4" down with a loud 'thunk...' sound as it hit the crank on the other side of the rod. Clearly no bearing is present even without seeing it with my own eyes.

 

=> The passenger side exhaust cam bolt turned out to be my nemesis. It stripped out quickly so I had to go buy a bolt-extractor set with sizes up to 3/4". That just ripped the edge off the round hat of the bolt. Pounded on the 5/8" extractor only to get the same result with an even MORE mangled bolt. <sigh> OK, decided to weld a large nut onto the bolt, working slowly and letting everything cool several times to not overheat the pulley and/or cam too much. 3 hours after starting the PS, and everything was apart.

 

 

 

At this point I have everything off the block that I need to, the rest I'm leaving on until the new block arrives so I can transfer from old to new without labelling more baggies of parts. Based on this site, I purchased a new block from Heurberger in CO. I also ordered the master gasket kit, one cam bolt, and the plastic Alt bracket adjuster sleeve.

 

 

 

I still need to tear the oil filter apart and take the oil pan off to find just how many metal parts I see. The oil looked ironically clean with no specs or chunks when drained, so I'm hopeful it isn't too bad. That being said, I'm not betting on any good news.

 

I hope enough people read all my ramblings to this point, because here is where I have my questions. Yes, I've read dozens of rebuild threads already(Mr. Tris', etc...), but still questioning things based on my intentions. Remember, I'm planning to drive the car only for a short time before I need to sell it for something I can tow large trailers with(I'm losing my tow vehicle in a divorce unfortunately....).

 

1) I understand for longevity sake if I was keeping the car to replace the oil cooler, oil control valve, rebuild the turbo, and possible replace the oil pickup tube(killer b, etc...). See the point above though about selling the car soon. I do NOT intend to screw over the unlucky buyer with a bad build, but I'm trying to do this as inexpensively as possible since I won't be able to recoup ANY of the costs of this effort. My hunch is that if I had the dealer do the work, they would not replace those parts. Would they even try to flush them out? So should I replace them under the stated circumstances?

 

2) If I do not replace the parts in question 1, should I leave the filters in the banjo bolts instead of removing them? Or take them out no matter what. How many filters are there and should I leave one but not another?

 

3) As stated above the heads were redone 10K miles ago so I wasn't planning to do anything with them. Probably a good cleaning with brake cleaner. I'm a little concerned about the cam journals though, they do have some scoring on the heads, but the caps and cams still look fine. Definitely feel it with the fingernail test. Replacing heads will add a significant cost. Again, if keeping the car I'd probably replace the heads. I have no idea if the scoring was there before or caused by the rod bearing parts cycling through the oil system. I'm really not sure what to do here...

 

This one is by FAR the worst, the others aren't as bad. And as stated, no marks at all on the cam OR the caps.

 

 

4) Is there a market for a rebuildable EJ25 block? Is it even worth trying to sell it? If yes, I won't even take the old short block apart, I'll just leave it for the buyer so they have all the potentially usable parts.

 

5) And lastly and least important, wtf is the difference between the intake and exhaust cam bolts, besides the $4 price tag? They sure look the same to me...

 

I'll be updating as I move along in the process, especially when I get the new short block and start transferring parts from the old block to the new.

 

Definitely looking for any feedback, especially on my particular questions.

 

Thanks,

 

-TJ

[blcnghtsky]

Well I offer nothing constructive except good luck to you! Subscribing because I would like my next vehicle to be an 09 or 08 OBXT, so I am here to learn. [emoji106]

[rmoore5]

One difference in the bolts is that the intake has an oil passsage for the vvt actuator. Maybe blcnghtsky should make you an offer now.

 

I would not use an oil pump off an engine that spun a bearing on a rebuild job.

 

Rinsing the oil cooler out well enough is iffy imo.

 

Clean and inspect anything that had, what was formerly lubricating oil and is now, lapping compound run thru it including the turbo. Preferably just replace these parts.

 

The baffles in the valve cover hold debris imo, also my obxt vvt actuators had crap inside them.

 

I run the banjo filters in my engines against the advice of everyone including Subaru but I inspect and replace the 1 that feeds the turbo and have never found anything in my GT.

 

The bore that you have in the picture doesn't look too bad, I would plastigage the cam journals and if the clearance is with in specs you may be okay.

[jeepurz]

Well I offer nothing constructive except good luck to you! Subscribing because I would like my next vehicle to be an 09 or 08 OBXT, so I am here to learn. [emoji106]

 

Ummm, do you like the color Diamond Gray Metallic? Limited, heater leather, large moonroof, etc... Comes with a new engine...

 

On a serious note, does an '09 OBXT really interest you? I can build to your spec. If keeping it, I was going to go stage 2 with a Cobb downpipe and some other well-tested and road-friendly upgrades. It's been bone stock all it's life since I build and restore old Jeeps and other vehicles to exercise my engine building/tuning desires.

 

I know it's a stretch, but all I want to get out of the car is general resale value. I know I'm going to eat all the money for the new shortblock and related parts so I'm not even looking to get a premium price for the vehicle other than KBB/Edmunds values for a car in it's condition.

 

PM me if you have any real thoughts about this and maybe we can work out a deal.

 

Thanks,

 

-TJ

[jeepurz]

One difference in the bolts is that the intake has an oil passsage for the vvt actuator. Maybe blcnghtsky should make you an offer now.

 

I would not use an oil pump off an engine that spun a bearing on a rebuild job.

 

Rinsing the oil cooler out well enough is iffy imo.

 

Clean and inspect anything that had, what was formerly lubricating oil and is now, lapping compound run thru it including the turbo. Preferably just replace these parts.

 

The baffles in the valve cover hold debris imo, also my obxt vvt actuators had crap inside them.

 

I run the banjo filters in my engines against the advice of everyone including Subaru but I inspect and replace the 1 that feeds the turbo and have never found anything in my GT.

 

The bore that you have in the picture doesn't look too bad, I would plastigage the cam journals and if the clearance is with in specs you may be okay.

 

Ah, I'll have to look at the bolts again, they didn't appear different at first glance. Oil pump now too, huh? I thought I had only read oil cooler and control valves. I'll have to check the valve cover baffles, and I believe I can disassemble the VVT stuff myself so I can do that as well. I was planning to plastigage the cams so I'll make sure they are within tolerance.

 

Your comment about rinsing the oil cooler being "iffy" is the core of my entire dilemma. Pride and morals are keeping me from slapping together a crappy build for the next bloke to deal with 10K miles after the new block was dropped in. Which is why it's getting all new gaskets, AT flush, good break-in procedure, etc... But putting an extra $5-600 in parts that even a dealer wouldn't replace in the same situation makes me really ponder things. I'm not suggesting that a dealership knows what's best, but let's be honest. If I am recreating and already doing more than a dealership would, then any buyer is getting the same product that 99% of the Subaru buying market would get. I'd assume that the performance-minded people on this site, that tend to 'push' their vehicles harder than any 40 year old soccer mom, will overbuild anything(much like I do with Jeeps). So of course most people here would suggest replacing everything that touched oil. If I were adding boost with a non-stock tune, etc..., I would 100% concur with that. But is it overkill for my situation?

 

Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself of my own position, and I'm being ignorant of the facts. I'm just not sure what the true facts really are.

 

Thoughts?

 

-TJ

[StkmltS]

First off, thank-you for your personal resolve to not shortchange the next owner. There are far too many people (Subaru owners included) who simply trade in their vehicle as-is fully knowing that the dealer will sell someone else a less-than healthy car. I don't care if "that's how it goes" in the used car market, it shouldn't be like that. Be proud that you're doing the right thing!

 

There's a fine line between "good enough" and overkill, but your experience with jeep motors has probably given you a better-than-most ability to know where that line is. This forum is a priceless resource, but my biggest problem with the plethora of advice on here is that many people base their advice on whether the motor being rebuilt will be able to handle more horsepower than Subaru designed the motor to have. Yes our motors can handle more HP than stock, but that's not what everyone is aiming for. Some things that are acceptable for your rebuild would be terribly wrong in another motor.

 

Your questions:

1.

- You may be fine just cleaning your OCVs very thoroughly. Give 'em a look, and if you think you can get them clean then go for it.

- Carefully inspect your turbo. If it checks good "move along, nothing to see here".

- Does the OEM shortblock include a new oil pickup tube? If not, it's only about $25 from Subaru. The killerB would be overkill in your case.

- Based on what I've read it isn't a good idea to try to clean the oil cooler. Especially one from a motor that's known to have metal particles floating around in it. Many have tried, and almost as many have failed. Even pressure washing the snot out of it doesn't seem to get it clean enough. Good news though: some people choose to run with no oil cooler at all. It looks like you'd only need p/n 15018AA050 ($5), and some way to bypass coolant going to/from where the oil cooler was. Some people just connect the send/return lines together, while others tap and plug the holes directly on the water pump. Tapping and plugging the water pump sounds like the better option to me. There's an interesting thread for this topic here on Nastysocks.

 

2.

Keeping the banjo bolt filters seems to be a personal preference issue. Later models from the 4th gen LGT's don't even have filters in the banjo bolt. I don't know which year they took out the filters, but I'd bet yours is filter-free.

 

3.

Clean and inspect your heads and cams carefully. If everything looks good other than the scoring on the heads, you may be fine as-is. Like you said, that scoring could have been there for a long time before the bearing failed. This is a tough decision.

 

4.

I'm of the belief that anything can sell if the price is right. There are always people rebuilding Subaru motors, you can probably find a buyer on here or craigslist pretty easily.

 

5.

Already answered.

[Max Capacity]

I was at the machine shop the other day. They had set of these heads there and we talked about the cam journals. If you can feel it, take them and the oil pan to a machine shop and have them checked and the oil pan cleaned by them.

 

They may be able polish the journal and you'll be fine.

 

Let the experts do what they do. My buddies shop does most of the Subaru heads around these here parts. During Dec he told me they were getting 4-5 pairs a week.

 

Replace your oil cooler, don't second guess a $200 part on a $5000+ engine.

[jeepurz]

First off, thank-you for your personal resolve to not shortchange the next owner. There are far too many people (Subaru owners included) who simply trade in their vehicle as-is fully knowing that the dealer will sell someone else a less-than healthy car. I don't care if "that's how it goes" in the used car market, it shouldn't be like that. Be proud that you're doing the right thing!

 

There's a fine line between "good enough" and overkill, but your experience with jeep motors has probably given you a better-than-most ability to know where that line is. This forum is a priceless resource, but my biggest problem with the plethora of advice on here is that many people base their advice on whether the motor being rebuilt will be able to handle more horsepower than Subaru designed the motor to have. Yes our motors can handle more HP than stock, but that's not what everyone is aiming for. Some things that are acceptable for your rebuild would be terribly wrong in another motor.

 

Your questions:

1.

- You may be fine just cleaning your OCVs very thoroughly. Give 'em a look, and if you think you can get them clean then go for it.

- Carefully inspect your turbo. If it checks good "move along, nothing to see here".

- Does the OEM shortblock include a new oil pickup tube? If not, it's only about $25 from Subaru. The killerB would be overkill in your case.

- Based on what I've read it isn't a good idea to try to clean the oil cooler. Especially one from a motor that's known to have metal particles floating around in it. Many have tried, and almost as many have failed. Even pressure washing the snot out of it doesn't seem to get it clean enough. Good news though: some people choose to run with no oil cooler at all. It looks like you'd only need p/n 15018AA050 ($5), and some way to bypass coolant going to/from where the oil cooler was. Some people just connect the send/return lines together, while others tap and plug the holes directly on the water pump. Tapping and plugging the water pump sounds like the better option to me. There's an interesting thread for this topic here on Nastysocks.

 

2.

Keeping the banjo bolt filters seems to be a personal preference issue. Later models from the 4th gen LGT's don't even have filters in the banjo bolt. I don't know which year they took out the filters, but I'd bet yours is filter-free.

 

3.

Clean and inspect your heads and cams carefully. If everything looks good other than the scoring on the heads, you may be fine as-is. Like you said, that scoring could have been there for a long time before the bearing failed. This is a tough decision.

 

4.

I'm of the belief that anything can sell if the price is right. There are always people rebuilding Subaru motors, you can probably find a buyer on here or craigslist pretty easily.

 

5.

Already answered.

 

Thanks for the nice words about pride/morals, for me it's just not something I'm willing to skimp on. Your comments about "good enough vs. overkill" is my exact take on this site, NASIOC, and others. I've been a longtime lurker on all of them and when interested in learning more about power adders, tuning, suspension upgrades, etc... these sites are invaluable, even if lots of info is unknowingly coming from couch mechanics. To your point though, there just doesn't seem to be as much solid info for those of us satisfied or wallet-constrained to keeping things stock.

 

I'll check the runout on the turbo with a dial indicator, anything else to check? I'll also reference the factory service manual, I haven't read much beyond my current situation(aka engine out and teardown).

 

I'm not sure of the short block having a new oil pickup tube. Based on past experience with short vs long blocks, I'm going to assume it won't come with anything south of the crankcase, including pickup tube, pan, etc... since it's just a short block. I'll look into a new stock tube.

 

I never considered removing the oil cooler, but that's a decent idea. I know it serves multiple purposes though, and it's inappropriately named a cooler. Like most modern motors, during warmup it actually acts as an oil heater, taking coolant(which heats up quicker than oil) and warming up the engine oil since these motors can be very finicky if not operating at the precise temps. The GM LS motors and Ford Coyote's both use intricate designs to create stable engine temps using similar methodologies. I'll definitely read the link you posted, thanks for passing it along.

 

I have to check the banjo filters for debris anyhow, I'l probably leave them out.

 

I'm a little unsure of taking to the heads to someone that may be short on work on that particular day or week. I can hear it now, "yeah those look bad, I can get them in quickly and get them back to you in a day...." just because he/she is short of current work. Call me a pessimist I guess...

 

Thanks,

 

-TJ

[jeepurz]

I was at the machine shop the other day. They had set of these heads there and we talked about the cam journals. If you can feel it, take them and the oil pan to a machine shop and have them checked and the oil pan cleaned by them.

 

They may be able polish the journal and you'll be fine.

 

Let the experts do what they do. My buddies shop does most of the Subaru heads around these here parts. During Dec he told me they were getting 4-5 pairs a week.

 

Replace your oil cooler, don't second guess a $200 part on a $5000+ engine.

 

As I posted in the other reply, I'm a little gun shy about taking them in, but I still might do it. A quick polish shouldn't cost too much compared to a full head job which these heads just had about 5K miles ago.

I agree to not skimp on a $200 part if you're invested up to $5K. In my case, I have a new shortblock, gasket kit, cam bolt, and adjuster sleeve delivered to my door all for under $2K. That $200 means a lot more percentage-wise in cost. I love the idea of removing the system with a measly $5 part, I think I'll go that route and tap/plug the tubes.

 

-TJ

[cBax]

My machine shop cleaned these up really well for very little additional cost.

 

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0307.jpg

[rmoore5]

As I posted in the other reply, I'm a little gun shy about taking them in, but I still might do it. A quick polish shouldn't cost too much compared to a full head job which these heads just had about 5K miles ago.

I agree to not skimp on a $200 part if you're invested up to $5K. In my case, I have a new shortblock, gasket kit, cam bolt, and adjuster sleeve delivered to my door all for under $2K. That $200 means a lot more percentage-wise in cost. I love the idea of removing the system with a measly $5 part, I think I'll go that route and tap/plug the tubes.

 

-TJ

 

I agree, the machine shop isn't always necessary, depending on the mechanic's skills.