silentsnow31802 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 So I may have an opportunity to buy a 2000 Legacy L wagon with blown head gaskets for relatively cheap. It has roughly 65k miles on it, full service records, manual transmission. Car was purchased from the original owner by my nephew, which is learning to drive. The car lasted about a month under his care. Car overheated quite bad twice. Dealership said it needed head gaskets replaced to the cost of $3900. Owner is not sure if he wants to have it fixes. Question is... is this car worth buying if I do the work myself? I suppose worse case is the heads need to be replaced. Also the clutch may need to be replaced. Owner said the pedal would sometimes not return all the way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleRumble Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 If it overheated bad twice then the head or block is most likely warped. If you could swap a engine, it would only be 1300(estimated) or so for one with under 65k miles and you could re-gasket and re-seal the engine while you are at it and it would cost less than the dealership especially if you do it yourself and also replace any other warn part while you are at it. When the engine is pulled work on everything else it a lot easier The pedal problem is the slave master cylinder or clutch cylinder most likely. Check the fluid level and for leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsnow31802 Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 If it overheated bad twice then the head or block is most likely warped. If you could swap a engine, it would only be 1300(estimated) or so for one with under 65k miles and you could re-gasket and re-seal the engine while you are at it and it would cost less than the dealership especially if you do it yourself and also replace any other warn part while you are at it. When the engine is pulled work on everything else it a lot easier The pedal problem is the slave master cylinder or clutch cylinder most likely. Check the fluid level and for leaks. What are the odds that the used engine is even in good shape? I come from the 4th gen side of this forum and used engines are frowned upon. I do plan on doing all the work myself, aside from the machining of the heads of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleRumble Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Get a imported JDM engine. They all come over from Japan with less than 65k miles on them. Odds are it's in great shape. If you re-gasket and re-seal the engine with the updated OEM gaskets it should be golden. You can get an already complete reman. engine for about 3000-3500$ Check to see if the block or head is warped first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsnow31802 Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 Get a imported JDM engine. They all come over from Japan with less than 65k miles on them. Odds are it's in great shape. If you re-gasket and re-seal the engine with the updated OEM gaskets it should be golden. You can get an already complete reman. engine for about 3000-3500$ Check to see if the block or head is warped first. Being that I am in California will the jdm engine be smog friendly? Are they still called ej251? Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 not worth it for 3900$ plus car cost. by the way, was he using the car to street RACE.? i bought an 00 lego and with in 1000 miles it spun a rod bearing. i bought an 01 lego engine with seeping head gaskets. i put my 00 heads on the 01 block and it has been trouble free for 20k miles. i didn't even send the heads to the machine shop, i just cleaned them up and bolted them on. however, the HG leak on these engines 00 - 03 is an external leak. so it would have to be a HELL of a LEAK to over heat from just the head gasket. and regardless of the cause of the over heat, the over heating could damage the HGs. so my advice would be to buy it and look fro a cooling system leak. after you solve the overheating problem then address the head gasket problem , if there is one. AND buy the coolant conditioner from the dealer, maybe 2, and add them to the cooling system. it is recommended for these engines, and required for them in order for the warranty on the head gaskets to be extended to 100k. FYI the head gaskets on these usually have an external leak, coolant to the ground, not an internal leak, exhaust gases to the coolant (96 - 99 ej25 cars) so if the gasket is leaking, as long as you watch the coolant and add when needed, you can drive it for a long time. there is no telling what the kid did to the car. i doubt the head gaskets could leak enough to over heat twice in one month, but maybe. look here for used engines, www.car-part.com sort by zip code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 PS: change the oil. overheated oil is not good oil any more. how many miles did he drive the car in the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 take head off, go to machine shop and have then squared. DO NOT reinstall the heads without getting them squared first. inspect EVERYTHING. That engine should be removed and resealed at 15+ years it will be seeping fluid everywhere....especially since your nephew cooked all of the sealant with an overheat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsnow31802 Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 No street racing but I know he did some new driver teenager things with it. He did tell me his friend tried to do a burnout in it.... so that probably didnt go well. Ill change the oil tomorrow and give it a good look over. It doesnt seem like a blow head gasket to me because I see no smoke or signs of oil and coolant mix. I will try and best explain the events up until now... Car purchased, noticed a little coolant but owner said he just topped it off. No signs of coolant leaks for a month or so. Nephew sends me a picture of his temperature gauge (picture 1). I told him to pull over and shut the car off. He waits for it to cool and limps it home. He was about 6 blocks from home. I came and looked at the car. No smoke or mixing of fluids noticed. I did notice his heater was not blowing hot air. The car would get to operating temp while sitting and idling and with some reving. We took it around the block and half way around it was up near the H mark on the temp gauge and we pulled over. It cooled down pretty quick and we got it back to his house. I suggest he get a thermostat and radiator cap as a cheap just in case fix. Told him if hes lucky the thermostat is stuck closed. The car sat for a while until the thermostat and radiator cap arrived. His friend and him changed them out. I assume there was a thermostat seal that was reused as I did not order that for him. The car was good for a couple days after that. A couple days later it started over heating again. I had him park it at his house and it sat there for a couple weeks. They called the dealer to have it looked at and a tow truck was sent to the house to pick the car up. When the driver got there they notice a puddle under it (picture 2). It looks to be mostly coolant from the front passenger side and a little bit of oil. So the car gets to the dealer. They say head gaskets are bad and that the cooling fan relay is missing (picture 3). There is a slot that says "Sub fan relay" that is missing. Is there supposed to be a relay here? The car is now sitting in my driveway waiting for something to happen to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Subaru are more likely to leak from water jacket to the outside...hence the coolant seeping out support car on jack stands remove slash shield look at head typically the left one leaks first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 1/ it MUST be a subaru t-stat. all others will give you head aches. if not you will continue to over heat. replace it. and what the hell get a new gasket too. 2/ the symptoms you describe: No smoke or mixing of fluids noticed. heater was not blowing hot air. The car would get to operating temp while sitting and idling We took it around the block and half way around it was up near the H mark these are typical for an overheating subaru. they are also associated with bad head gaskets, but only beacuse bad head gaskets cause coolant loss and therefore overheating. the ''no heat '' inside means the coolant level is so low it cannot circulate. add coolant, let it idle until you get hot air from the heater, let it idle. then let it cool down, add coolant, fill over flow to the full line. then check the over flow before you drive it , every time. add as needed. if the system is working properly, it will push coolant into the over flow when it gets warm / operating temp, as the engine cools, it will suck coolant back into the radiator. if there is a leak, it will not work right. it could work right when hot but not as it cools, or vice versa. or it could avoid the over flow all together and just leak. 3/ you need a relay. without it the fan will not come on, passenger side i think. the driver side is slaved to the AC, it should come on with the AC. you need a relay. a big question, ''why was it removed?'' oversight, diagnosis, teenager forgot to put it back? 4/ if the plastic under-shield is still in place, remove it, so you can better locate the leak. (how ''hands on'' are you, anyway? no sense telling you to unbolt something if you will not do it.) fill the system correctly. remove the under shield and let it idle with card board underneath. (or buy some dye and a black light.) conclusions: all of this describes a coolant leak. it could be the head gasket, but it could be a run of the mill coolant leak, hose or clamp. so my advice is the same, identify, locate, the leak and fix it if not the head gasket. i repeat, it would have to be one hell of a head gasket leak to leave a puddle as pictured. does the oil filter have a coolant line going to it.????? finally, every time you overheat the engine you increase the risk of bad head gaskets but i would not assume bad head gaskets. yet!!!! if you continue to overheat the engine and the HGs are bad, it may be better to replace rather than repair. i good used engine , $500 - $700, can be had. labor should be a day at most shops ($800 ??) one with a bad timing belt would be cheaper, bent valves (and running when the belt died.) put your heads on the new block and drive on. now you have good block, good heads and good head gaskets. let us know what you learn. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsnow31802 Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 1) A Subaru thermostat and radiator cap was used. I forgot the gasket but it does not seem to be the source of the leak so I am going to leave that alone for now. 2) At the time the heater did not work the coolant level was low, but not that low at all. Maybe 1/4 a gallon if that. I do need to rid the system of any trapped air but for now my main focus is the leak. Its pretty bad. 3) The missing relay, I pulled from another location for now just to get it working. I will purchase one if I can get the other things fixed. I am unsure why it was missing. I am not above thinking the dealer took it out to try and get some money from my relatives. I have heard shady things about the service department in that particular dealership. 4) Shield removed. I am very "Hands on". I do maintenance at Tesla Motors on the process equipment and robotics so I am fairly good with a wrench, multi meter, computer, or whatever tools need to be used. I took the cover off today and had a peek under the car. The leak is pretty bad... like not drive-able bad. It seems to be coming from behind the timing belt cover somewhere. I tried to get a picture to show where its coming from. Its pretty dirty down there so it may be hard to tell what your looking at. I fear the water pump may have gone and is pissing coolant. As for right now im going to rule out the head gasket issue. I want to see about getting the massive coolant leak fixed and go from there. If its worth my time and money that is. The car has its original timing belt still (as far as I know) so if the water pump is leaking then it would be a good excuse to tackle that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 water pump looks like a good guess. the smaller hose in the pic, under the arrow is the water pump. you may be able to tell more if you remove the timing cover for the cam sprocket just above. 3 bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsnow31802 Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 water pump looks like a good guess. the smaller hose in the pic, under the arrow is the water pump. you may be able to tell more if you remove the timing cover for the cam sprocket just above. 3 bolts. Ill remove the cover and check it out when I have time. It seems to be coming from inside there somewhere but I cannot see exactly where without removing some pieces. I cannot see it at all from the top of the engine. Ill dig deeper into it and update the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I you replace the water pump, might as well put new t-belt, idlers, and tensioner on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsnow31802 Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 I gotta get the crank pulley off somehow. It's really on there.. Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 http://www.sears.com/private-brand-tools-70865-powerbar-crankshaft-bolt-removal/p-SPM7451009603?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1 use that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsnow31802 Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 http://www.sears.com/private-brand-tools-70865-powerbar-crankshaft-bolt-removal/p-SPM7451009603?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1 use that That looks like one hell of a wrench. Its hard to tell how it would work (viewing on my phone). Any more info on this? Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 if it is not buggered, a sharp tap on the center hub may break it loose. or you can borrow a harmonic balancer puller from auto zone. but you will need to buy a ''tap'' to thread the holes on the pulley. if you pull on the outer part of the pulley , it could separate. yhou got the bolt out , right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsnow31802 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 if it is not buggered, a sharp tap on the center hub may break it loose. or you can borrow a harmonic balancer puller from auto zone. but you will need to buy a ''tap'' to thread the holes on the pulley. if you pull on the outer part of the pulley , it could separate. yhou got the bolt out , right? Oh no sorry. I haven't got the bolt out yet. I tried with a 3ft breaker bar real quick with no luck. I put the car in gear with the ebrake on to stop the engine from turning over but all of the bushings and such make everything really squishy. I gotta try and get a bigger bar and a friend over to hold their foot on the brake pedal. See if I can stiffen things up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 auto or manual. there is an access port under the throttle body on the passenger side . it has a black plastic plug in it, shaped funny , not a rectangle. this will allow you to jam a large screwdriver against the flex plate / fly wheel and keep the engine from turning. also use this to tighten the bolt back later on. failure to tighten correctly will lead to damage down the road. or you can use the starter bump method. put a 6 sided socket w/ breaker bar on the bolt and brace the handle end against the frame of the car at the battery. then bump the starter with the key. do not let it start. this will loosen the bolt. (the engine turns / runs clockwise as you look at it from the front.) too bad you cannot use this to tighten the bolt as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaQuan15 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 How do you prevent blowing a head gasket ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRuu Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 don't drive your car. hahaha some will say there is a magical liquid that you can by from subaru know as a coolant conditioner that might help. our cars are mostly gonna leak from the exterior so the conditoner might not help. as in oil passage gasket fails not coolant passages you can buy better gaskets such as MLS gaskets that will prevent future gasket failing issues. keep up on oil changes, coolant changes, and don't ever let it overheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsnow31802 Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 auto or manual. there is an access port under the throttle body on the passenger side . it has a black plastic plug in it, shaped funny , not a rectangle. this will allow you to jam a large screwdriver against the flex plate / fly wheel and keep the engine from turning. also use this to tighten the bolt back later on. failure to tighten correctly will lead to damage down the road. or you can use the starter bump method. put a 6 sided socket w/ breaker bar on the bolt and brace the handle end against the frame of the car at the battery. then bump the starter with the key. do not let it start. this will loosen the bolt. (the engine turns / runs clockwise as you look at it from the front.) too bad you cannot use this to tighten the bolt as well. It is a manual. I will try that flywheel thing. Im not a fan of the starter method as I have very little control of what is happening with my tools, the frame of the car, and that bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaQuan15 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 don't drive your car. hahaha some will say there is a magical liquid that you can by from subaru know as a coolant conditioner that might help. our cars are mostly gonna leak from the exterior so the conditoner might not help. as in oil passage gasket fails not coolant passages you can buy better gaskets such as MLS gaskets that will prevent future gasket failing issues. keep up on oil changes, coolant changes, and don't ever let it overheat. Thank you , is the job hard doing it yourself ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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