98 LGT early signs of a head gasket failure?

[ljshein]

Hi Guys,

 

So, my 98 LGT with 114K miles is acting up, I suspect it may be signs of a head gasket but I'd love to hear some opinions.

 

My son was driving the car Saturday, he pulled over after hearing a strange noise, there was antifreeze on the ground and the engine was running hot. He shut it down before it overheated. Once we got it home, we pressure tested the system and it was fine. We added coolant and could see a little oil mixed in with the fluid. I can't explain where the coolant escaped from, it was sprayed over the driver's side front of the motor, near the lower radiator hose. With fresh coolant, it runs hot which tells me there is an air pocket in the system. There engine runs smooth, no smoke from the exhaust.

 

We found this article: http://www.smart-service.com/mikescorner-headgasket.html

 

Which suggests head gasket is breaking down. What do you guys think?

 

thanks in advance!

Jeff

[c-lo]

sounds like it. I have an 05 with 269k. i have an oil leak coming from somewhere...was told it was head gaskets but doesn't make sense in my case. sent an oil sample to blackstone labs to verify and they found nothing that could back up that claim. Also no coolant loss, and no smoke out the back end.

 

in your case though....sounds like might be HG.

[Stevo F]

For the '96- '99 EJ25D engines, the headgaskets will fail allowing oil into the coolant (signs are bubbling or oily gunk in the coolant overflow tank). Overheating is usually a sign of this.

 

Later engines (2000 and later) are more subject to external oil leaks from the headgaskets. I don't know if this type of leak involves the cooling system as much. I got under our 2005 OBS after we bought it and saw a small amount of old oily resident near one of the headgaskets, but no sign of fresh leaks (yet).

[ljshein]

Thanks guys, I don't understand where the antifreeze that got dumped on the ground came from, Is just too much pressure for the radiator cap and it dumped from there?

 

I've seen a few bad head gaskets and they usually manifest themselves as running poorly, loss of power and white smoke... why don't I see that in this case?

 

Is there anyway to confirm the head gasket theory? Will a compression test show it?

 

Jeff

[Stevo F]

I believe you can have your oil tested to see if there is any presence of antifreeze.

[c-lo]

getting ready to have mine tested: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

[johnegg]

I don't understand where the antifreeze that got dumped on the ground came from,

EXHAUST / combustion gases leak from the cyclinders into the coolant.

this displaces coolant in to the over flow bottle.

once enough coolant is gone,

once there is a large enough build up of exhaust gases in the cooling system

the coolant either stops circulating causing overheating and a no heat situation inside the car,

or the engine just overheats from low coolant,

forcing more coolant in to the over flow bottle, and beyond onto the ground.

 

once the engine cools, it will suck coolant back into the engine from the over flow bottle,

but it will not completely fill the engine for 2 reasons,

1/ some of the coolant is on the ground,

2/ there is still some exhaust gases in the engine.

 

these head gaskets leak very slowly at first.

if you let the exhaust gases out,

and topp off the coolant regularly,

you can drive it for a while.

but the leak will get worse over time.

and every time it heats up, above normal

you are damaging your oil and possibly your rod bearings.

 

so change the oil and keep it cool.

if you plan on fixing this engine,

do it sooner rather than later.

less risk of bearing damage.

 

if you plan on swapping in an ej22 engine,

drive it until it drops,

or at least until the weather is warmer.

 

Is there anyway to confirm the head gasket theory? Will a compression test show it?

there is a test, a carbon monoxide test for the coolant.

not all shops can do it but some can.

i do not know if there is a one time use test for the car owner at autozone or the like.

 

i compression test will not show it since the pressures that exists are off the charts high.

 

but when it is over heating, or rapidily heading in that direction,

there will be bubbles in the over flow bottle.

(once the leak gets bad there will be bubbles at idle when not overheating.)

 

suabrus do not show bad head gaskets like other cars.

no white smoke,

no crappy running

since the coolant is not leaking INTO the cylinders.

[ljshein]

thanks to all for the information!

 

Johnegg... that was exactly the kind of details I needed to understand, thank you!

 

I'm leaning toward repairing the existing engine. The car has been in the family since new Is there a specific brand of head gaskets you recommend?

[johnegg]

get them from suabru .

the ''new & improved'' gasket usually solves the problem.

do not do the job with the engine in the car.

the re-fail rate is higher.

 

there is a ''turbo head gasket'' that is supposed to be the best choice.

this would have to be for a 00+ engine,

but works for the 90s, i think.

try google for subaru head gasket part number,

it ends in ...610, i think.

 

i have 25k miles on replacement suabru head gaskets for my 00 lego ej25 sohc with no problems.

 

i do not know what gaskets i used,

i just went and asked for the latest gasket for my year / engine.

there may be a high quality parts company with an acceptable gasket,

but the two from suabru are less then $80, plus shipping, on line,

so why risk another brand.

i would buy suabru front oil seals as well,

they will run another $30 - $40, online.

 

tip:many local dealers will match online prices if you ask,

"here's a list of the parts i'm buying online,

if you match the price, i will spend my parts dollars here.''

nothing to lose,

but i suggest you start with a comprehensive list.

 

are you having a shop do the work?

[ljshein]

Thanks John,

 

I'm very aware the engine needs to be removed to do the job correctly. I know about the cam seals, any time that timing belt is off, they are going to get done. I've only done one Subaru engine swap but that was back in the early 80's

 

If the engine hasn't overheated, do the heads need to be resurfaced? While the heads are off I'd like to clean up the valves and replace the seals. Any advice on cleaning up the heads?

 

I haven't decided whether to do it myself or to have a shop do it. I have the tools, I'd love to save the money and do it myself but making the time is an issue. I've got a reputable local shop that's telling me about $1500 to do the job but it could be up to $2K. He seems to know what he's talking about but I'm always cautious when someone else gets near my cars

[Gus_Colorado]

You should find out whether you need resurfacing or not testing the heads once they're off. What happened or not related to the overheating doesn't really matter. The engine is open already, just check it.

[johnegg]

do the heads need to be resurfaced?

this is tricky,

on the one hand, there are multiple reports that some subaru dealers do not bother.

and then there is the , better to be sure, approach.

and finally there is the do it yourself solution.

 

when i did the heads on my 00 i did not send them out.

(my engine spun a rod bearing.)

i removed them using the ''head torque sequence'' in reverse hoping not to warp them during removal.

cleaned up the surfaces and re-installed them w/ new gaskets.

so far , 25k and ok.

 

some say they are too short to warp.

others say always have them checked.

and finally , if you use the ''do it yourself'' procedure

it is likely that the heads are not perfectly flat when you remove them.

 

to be sure, send them out.

if you are a gambler, , risk not sending them.

or do it your self, save most of the money and invest some of your time.

 

read this:

it is a little complicated to set up,

but you save some bucks.

\/

DIY Head Resurfacing... or "Post-apocalyptic machine shop techniques!" - Old Gen.: 80's GL/DL/XT/Loyales... - Ultimate Subaru Message Board

 

one of my concerns is that regardless of the condition of the heads,

the machine shop will find a problem.

it is in their interest financially to do so.

 

if you take them to a shop,

maybe mention that if they are not good, need valves or maybe even to be shaved,

you have a friend who has a pair of good ones for cheap.

this may keep them honest.

 

most shops are honest,

but some may try to take advantage.

 

the smart move is to have then cleansed and checked for flatness.

but i took a chance and did not do it.

so far so good.

[johnegg]

PS:

the valves need to be adjusted every 100k.

if you are close to this interval,

it is probably worth it to send them out.

the 96 - 98/9 DOHC has a bucket and shim valve lash system.

not an east adjustment.

you will probably need some shims unless it has already been done.

given your history with the car / engine it may have been done.

[Park]

Get a venting radiator cap, it won't fix the problem, but you can help it vent during driving by not turning it all the way closed.

[ljshein]

Thanks again for the great information, it really helped to drive my decision making process!

 

I took the car to a local shop and he thinks there is a rod noise and wants to do a full re-build. I can't see spending $4K on a car that's worth $3K (if I'm lucky). Its a little sad considering the car has been in my family since new and only had 115K miles on it.

 

I'm re-considering my options.

1. I could sell the car as is... full disclosure and see what I can get for it.

2. I could re-build it myself (time and experience may be an issue)

3. I could look for a used / rebuilt motor (time is an issue, experience isn't a problem)

 

I don't really need the car but I love driving it and I'm emotionally attached Any body got a source for a motor swap? I see Slavage / JDM motors from $900 to $1100 and rebuilt long blocks $1600 and up...

 

Silly question but I like the power of the 2.5, at what point did Subaru solve the head gasket issues with the 2.5? Would a later model motor be swappable into the 98?

[johnegg]

I'm re-considering my options.

1. I could sell the car as is... full disclosure and see what I can get for it.

2. I could re-build it myself (time and experience may be an issue)

3. I could look for a used / rebuilt motor (time is an issue, experience isn't a problem)

1/

less than $1000,

i bought a 98OBW w/ 140k miles for $300

2/

do not ''rebuild'' this block,

it is not cost effective.

there are cheaper ways to get it back on the road.

3/

this is the one,

but instead of a $1000 JDM ej25 that has the exact same head gaskets that are bad in your car,

swap in an ej22 engine w/EGR.

i'v done it twice.

it is an affordable and pretty easy solution.

you can keep driving this one carefully as you source the ''new engine''

http://www.car-part.com , sort by zip code.

and when ready do the swap in one weekend.

 

lots of info on the details and tips.

it isn't a difficult job.

i did it as my very first engine swap.

my only prior experience was brakes, and oil changes.

 

the only engines what will swap in are the 95 - 98 ej22 w/EGR,

and the 96 - 99 ej25D DOHC. (not 99 forester)

[johnegg]

sam's has one for $350.

 

1995 Engine Subaru Legacy L - X, 2.2L, FI, AOD, AWD, R134a 3J4994

$350

Sam's Used Parts, Inc. USA-GA(Mableton) 1-770-739-7815

 

$350 = engine

$10 = plugs

$40 = plug wires

$125 = timing kit

$35 = front oil seals

$30 = rear oil separator plate

$25 = oil & filter

$15 = antifreeze

 

estimated total = $630

[joeshmo94]

Thanks again for the great information, it really helped to drive my decision making process!

 

I took the car to a local shop and he thinks there is a rod noise and wants to do a full re-build. I can't see spending $4K on a car that's worth $3K (if I'm lucky). Its a little sad considering the car has been in my family since new and only had 115K miles on it.

 

I'm re-considering my options.

1. I could sell the car as is... full disclosure and see what I can get for it.

2. I could re-build it myself (time and experience may be an issue)

3. I could look for a used / rebuilt motor (time is an issue, experience isn't a problem)

 

I don't really need the car but I love driving it and I'm emotionally attached Any body got a source for a motor swap? I see Slavage / JDM motors from $900 to $1100 and rebuilt long blocks $1600 and up...

 

Silly question but I like the power of the 2.5, at what point did Subaru solve the head gasket issues with the 2.5? Would a later model motor be swappable into the 98?

 

i can tell you that my 05 2.5L needed gaskets close to 115k

[Sylvester]

Thanks guys, I don't understand where the antifreeze that got dumped on the ground came from, Is just too much pressure for the radiator cap and it dumped from there?

 

Jeff

 

There's a small hole in the top/front facing side of your overflow bottle. You can see it if you look real close because it faces you. It the overflow bottle gets too full, coolant will come out of this hole and spill onto the car/ground.

[jp71ss]

Rebuilding is not that expensive if you do the work yourself. I did mine for around $1000.00 or less with new parts and bore. Valve job,surfacing heads, new pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets and seals. Machine work is all I farmed out. Runs good. I did all that because I thought my other motor was cracked but all it needed when I got it out was gaskets and seals because the guy I bought the car from used permatex for everything including o rings. Mine is a 97 with a 98 motor in it. That figure is off the top of my head but I can add it up if needed.

[twisty]

im in to my redo on the ej25 for about 600 so far, but im not splitting the block and redoing pistons and bearings. i did spend a bit extra for some colorful parts and such, but thats about it. its getting head gaskets, timing components/ water pump (and all the front seals) and some wiring upgrades.