StkmltS Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) I replaced the stock FPR this weekend. The idle is still rough and the misfires are still there... but now in cylinders 2 and 3. Technically that's a change so I'm all smiles. **see edit from 01-OCT-2018** After I put on the sti fpr I reset the ECU and let the car idle for about 10 minutes, and then I rev'd the motor like a maniac about 10 times because I want the neighborhood to know that I'm a badass and I work on my cars. After I turned off the motor I noticed a small amount of sweet-smelling smoke coming from near the turbo. Thinking I had a coolant leak to track down I got down and looked under the car. Much to my wonderment the smoke was coming from the rear (3rd) cat. It seems unlikely that coolant would get that far back before dripping onto the exhaust. Now the motor stumbles really, really badly at mid/high RPMs. It only stumbles under load while driving (rev's fine all the way to high heaven when parked in a driveway), and it feels like a cat might be clogged. I'm concerning enough that I'm going to keep the car parked until I can take off the pipe and take a peek. To be safe I'll probably get out my auger bit and go to town on the cat. Kind of ironic that my Ryobi drill is green. ***01-OCT-2018 edit**** One of the fuel lines was loose/cracked and leaking fuel. I figured this out before the car blew up, but not before getting stranded on the side of the road in the middle of the night. Fuel line replaced, user-generated stumble gone, misfires still present. Edited October 1, 2018 by StkmltS My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridemore Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 This is admittedly a noob problem. I recently replaced a failing 05 OXT turbo with a near stock aftermarket model w/ new oil lines, etc. (I seemed to have caught the turbo failure early and immediately shut the engine down. The banjo bolt filter was partially blocked, which seems to have caused the turbo bearing to fail. Fortunately, no housing or impeller damage. Just the ever so slightest bit of play in the shaft.) I also took off the intake assembly to replace leaking fuel line hoses. (Common problem on the 05 OXT.) I had to defer reassembly for a long time due to job/life issues. Upon reassembly (finally) and startup, engine starts, but idles so rough it stalls. Engine will rev, but doesn't sound right. Oddly, it gives no CEL and is issuing no trouble codes. So, I must have missed reconnecting a sensor or other connector, but I haven't been able to find which one it is. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relative4 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Checked for pending codes? Smoke tested? Pulled the pan to check for glitter? Watched cylinder roughness to see if the problem is isolated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 Disconnected vacuum line somewhere? My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Bringing this back after I read every single post in it... I have a misfire on #3, #1, and #4... sometimes... It usually happens when colder, but not 100% of the time. It is starting when I first start the car, sometimes. I can feel it missing, it's like chugging on 3 cylinders. No misfires listed until it warms up enough to start counting, but I can feel it. Once fully warm, it usually stops. Until then, it'll misfire on 3, 1, & 2 at idle when stopped primarily, but occasionally while moving. Bumping the throttle will typically reset it or stop the counter. When it clears, you can definitely feel it; if moving it goes from shudder to roaring smooth. It started on #3 when it finally got colder here in Chatt, then also on #1, #2 was added to the mix last week. The injectors were cleaned and flow tested <1yr ago, so I've ruled them out so far. I swapped #3 and #1 coils, and the main misfire moved to #1. Aha I said, it's a coil and replaced it; misfires just laughed at me and kept coming despite the replacement. I replaced the plugs (OEM) because they were at 55k miles, it didn't make a diff. I've considered valve adjustment, but since it is on 3 of 4 cylinders I've held off. - Fuel Trims are nice and all vacuum lines have been replaced - When not misfiring, she is so smooth and ready to go - Front 02 is <1yr old - MAF is <1yr old - STi FPR - Coils have 0-25k miles on them - Injectors where cleaned and flow tested passing in flying colors last year - FRP vacuum reference was moved - Fuel pump is AEM replaced a couple years ago - New OCVs I'm considering the intake O-rings and gasket on the other side of the TGVs since I'm at 195k miles, but not really keen on pulling the intake manifold unless I really have to. Edited January 23, 2019 by Infosecdad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Bringing this back after I read every single post in it... I have a misfire on #3, #1, and #4... sometimes... It usually happens when colder, but not 100% of the time. It is starting when I first start the car, sometimes. I can feel it missing, it's like chugging on 3 cylinders. No misfires listed until it warms up enough to start counting, but I can feel it. Once fully warm, it usually stops. Until then, it'll misfire on 3, 1, & 2 at idle when stopped primarily, but occasionally while moving. Bumping the throttle will typically reset it or stop the counter. When it clears, you can definitely feel it; if moving it goes from shudder to roaring smooth. It started on #3 when it finally got colder here in Chatt, then also on #1, #2 was added to the mix last week. The injectors were cleaned and flow tested <1yr ago, so I've ruled them out so far. I swapped #3 and #1 coils, and the main misfire moved to #1. Aha I said, it's a coil and replaced it; misfires just laughed at me and kept coming despite the replacement. I replaced the plugs (OEM) because they were at 55k miles, it didn't make a diff. I've considered valve adjustment, but since it is on 3 of 4 cylinders I've held off. - Fuel Trims are nice and all vacuum lines have been replaced - When not misfiring, she is so smooth and ready to go - Front 02 is <1yr old - MAF is <1yr old - STi FPR - Coils have 0-25k miles on them - Injectors where cleaned and flow tested passing in flying colors last year - FRP vacuum reference was moved - Fuel pump is AEM replaced a couple years ago I'm considering the intake O-rings and gasket on the other side of the TGVs since I'm at 195k miles, but not really keen on pulling the intake manifold unless I really have to. I did not have to completely remove the intake manifold in order to install the gaskets. It is doable, a bit of a pain though. Exactly how many counts do you see per cylinder? Is it a consistent amount you notice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I may try to do the orange rings first since the whole thing doesn't have to come out. For counts it depends on the day, sometimes in the single digits or 10s and repeats, sometimes into the 20s or 30s, or even 60s once. It's wildly inconsistent. Sometimes it just never happens and on occasion I get enough to trigger the CEL. My favorite is when it's enough to trigger the CEL, then goes away so it drives smoothly with the flashing cruise light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I went through the same mess (and wild random misfire counts) BUT in a single cylinder. I was so used to it that I could tell when it would trigger the CEL . And I also knew how to avoid it (by not letting it idle cold and just drive it right away -- but if I was seating for too long at a traffic light, then bam). And as you probably know, it was a tight exhaust valve. Fixed it by readjusting the clearance. Now for you, it is interesting because it is happening to multiple cylinders (at the same time?). You may then be lucky and the intake orings may fix the issue. I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 You and me both :-P Do you have a thread about adjusting the valves? That’s my next research project along with replacing the o-rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) yeah I do. let me search for it. here you go: https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/my-turn-adjust-valve-clearances-242071.html funny thing is if you google my username and the word valve, my thread shows up first . might be a customized search result though. Edited January 24, 2019 by xt2005bonbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) Awesome, thank you. You are right, it’s the first result for that search, it’s actually 1 of only 2 results. :-D I did buckets back on my old ‘99 outback, but that was when everything was out of the engine bay. I’ll have to think about that, if I’m going that deep, I’m at 80k on my current timing belt... Hopefully the dealer has my gaskets in soon and I can get that part taken care of. Edited January 24, 2019 by Infosecdad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Yeah. do the gaskets first. It may be all that you need. But it is true that you could also check the valve clearance while you're at it. Pretty quick to do, especially knowing that it takes you 45 minutes to change your plugs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Yeah. do the gaskets first. It may be all that you need. But it is true that you could also check the valve clearance while you're at it. Pretty quick to do, especially knowing that it takes you 45 minutes to change your plugs . Dang it, why do you have to be so logical.... On the trip to pick up the gaskets, misfire counts on #3 and #1 were very small. Peaked at 6. 90%+ stopped at a traffic light... Now have the orange o-rings, the gaskets for TGV to head, and valve cover/spark plug tube gaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 interesting. misfires on the same bank this time. But a peak of 6 is kinna meh to me. Unless it keeps reoccurring (i.e. goes from 0 to 6, then back to 0, then climbs again, and keep cycling like that for a while during idle). I did not change the TGV to head gaskets btw. I just changed the orange o-rings. fyi. StkmltS, how's your LGT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 Bringing this back after I read every single post in it... I have a misfire on #3, #1, and #4... sometimes... ... Welcome to the nightmare. In a sick kind of way I'm glad you're here. :spin::spin: Have you starting counting how many times you've said "Ah ha! This has to be it!" ... I'm considering the intake O-rings and gasket on the other side of the TGVs since I'm at 195k miles, but not really keen on pulling the intake manifold unless I really have to. I did not have to completely remove the intake manifold in order to install the gaskets. It is doable, a bit of a pain though. As Mr. ValveLash already said, it's not very difficult and tots worth a shot. It's also fairly inexpensive compared to... rebuilding the motor only to discover the misfires DON'T GO AWAY. I'm still a little salty about that fun little exercise. ... For counts it depends on the day, sometimes in the single digits or 10s and repeats, sometimes into the 20s or 30s, or even 60s once. It's wildly inconsistent. Sometimes it just never happens and on occasion I get enough to trigger the CEL. My favorite is when it's enough to trigger the CEL, then goes away so it drives smoothly with the flashing cruise light... That's my favorite too! Maybe our two cars are dopple gangers. In all seriousness, your symptoms sound incredibly similar to mine. There's no real pattern, except sometimes, but then not really, but maybe yes, or no. How many components need replaced before the root cause is discovered? I don't feel like I have a whole lot to contribute anymore because my personal experience has convinced me that my misfires may never go away no matter what I do. They might even be a figment of my ECU's imagination (I'm partially serious... and my ECU will probably get replaced in 2019.) My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) interesting. misfires on the same bank this time. But a peak of 6 is kinna meh to me. Unless it keeps reoccurring (i.e. goes from 0 to 6, then back to 0, then climbs again, and keep cycling like that for a while during idle). I did not change the TGV to head gaskets btw. I just changed the orange o-rings. fyi. StkmltS, how's your LGT? Great, mostly, but sometimes no, although yes actually. Thanks for asking. Right now it has/feels like it has a boost leak somewhere and I'm waiting on warmer/dry weather to try out my new smoke tester (party fog machine). It's been super funky in boost since I replaced the FPR, so I'm assuming it's a boost leak. Edited January 24, 2019 by StkmltS My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 interesting. misfires on the same bank this time. But a peak of 6 is kinna meh to me. Unless it keeps reoccurring (i.e. goes from 0 to 6, then back to 0, then climbs again, and keep cycling like that for a while during idle). I did not change the TGV to head gaskets btw. I just changed the orange o-rings. fyi. StkmltS, how's your LGT? Oh, it's reoccurring... Just gets to count to 6 before the revs reset the counter... Yeah, no #4 on this trip... Though I've had CEL for everything but #2 at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 Time to disable the misfire CEL. If you're opensource (tactrix) we can help if you need it. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Welcome to the nightmare. In a sick kind of way I'm glad you're here. :spin::spin: You know what they say about misery and company... Have you starting counting how many times you've said "Ah ha! This has to be it!" No, that's a depressing counter As Mr. ValveLash already said, it's not very difficult and tots worth a shot. It's also fairly inexpensive compared to... rebuilding the motor only to discover the misfires DON'T GO AWAY. I'm still a little salty about that fun little exercise. Yeah, I would be pretty salty as well. That's my favorite too! Maybe our two cars are dopple gangers. In all seriousness, your symptoms sound incredibly similar to mine. There's no real pattern, except sometimes, but then not really, but maybe yes, or no. How many components need replaced before the root cause is discovered? I don't feel like I have a whole lot to contribute anymore because my personal experience has convinced me that my misfires may never go away no matter what I do. They might even be a figment of my ECU's imagination (I'm partially serious... and my ECU will probably get replaced in 2019.) My steps are likely: 1. Replace orange o-rings between intake and tgvs 2. Check valve clearance Anticipated: 3. Cry because it's due to valve clearance 4. Debate whether to try to do just the valve adjustment or go all in 5. Realize that "all in" is a full reseal and probably a clutch 6. Drive the car for a while to build up the feeling of joy when driving to help me get through all this work... I have to travel for work next week, we'll see if I try the o-rings over the weekend or not. Depends what the four kids and wife have in mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 As Mr. ValveLash already said, it's not very difficult and tots worth a shot. . I knew you were going to say something along those lines! In all seriousness, your symptoms sound incredibly similar to mine. There's no real pattern, except sometimes, but then not really, but maybe yes, or no. Well, didn't/doesn't your car have issue with a single cylinder misfiring? That's quite different than multiple cylinders misfiring no? That's why I hope the gaskets will fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) Time to disable the misfire CEL. If you're opensource (tactrix) we can help if you need it. I'm open to suggestions. I've been working on an Infamous base tune. I have BtSSM up on my nexus full time because I like to see the data. I see the P301-304 in EcuFlash, they are flagged as "enabled" Is it just setting the value to "disabled" or is it something else? Edited January 24, 2019 by Infosecdad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 . I knew you were going to say something along those lines! Well, didn't/doesn't your car have issue with a single cylinder misfiring? That's quite different than multiple cylinders misfiring no? That's why I hope the gaskets will fix it. I would expect a large, more systemic issue is causing mine because of how many cylinders are impacted. That's why I was looking that things that would actually bridge the two banks, since I'm not sure how likely it is to have valve clearance issues on 3 of 4 cylinders crop up all at the same time. I'm still trying to mull over what things in the over all system could be impacting, also understanding that many times for stuff like this it may not be a single source, but rather multiple factors chained together. The other tricky part is a "misfire" can be due to many different things as we've learned over the course of this thread and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 That's why I was looking that things that would actually bridge the two banks, since I'm not sure how likely it is to have valve clearance issues on 3 of 4 cylinders crop up all at the same time. I agree. It'd be strange that clearance issues would 'all of the sudden' show up for both banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Worn/corroded coil pack harness / harness plugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Worn/corroded coil pack harness / harness plugs? For me, I've checked those, three times. I've replaced a couple of the harness plugs because they had fallen apart. I've twisted the pins slightly for contact and ziptied them because I could. If they are the reason at this point, I'm going to have to just solder them directly to the coil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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