rhino6303 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Ah, those just have the TGVs closed for cold start eh. Yes. So I used all idle (cold and warm) values from a jdm ecu map to improve my idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 A few weeks ago, I got a P0302 Cylinder #2 misfire code. The misfire only ever happens at idle. I checked the spark plug which looked pretty good. I swapped coils with cylinder #1. Still got the code at idle after I cleared it. Then, I swapped the fuel injector with cylinder #4. The misfire followed (P0304). So, I removed all the injectors, labeled them, and sent them off to be serviced. The tech told me that there were no problems with the injectors ("they all are flowing fine..."). I re-installed the injectors in the same locations, but today I got a P0304--the same location they were installed before I sent them off. Is it possible that the injector is bad and they missed it during testing? Seems like an obvious answer, but has anyone ever had this happen to them? I used these guys: http://accurateis.com/store/index.php Those guys look competent and I'd really doubt any professional injector service would overlook something bad enough to cause you problems. Did they tell you the flow rate (cc/min) for each of your injectors? Maybe the electrical connections on your problematic injector are slightly bent, just enough to cause problems. That's the best I can come up with. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hero2zero Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Those guys look competent and I'd really doubt any professional injector service would overlook something bad enough to cause you problems. Did they tell you the flow rate (cc/min) for each of your injectors? Maybe the electrical connections on your problematic injector are slightly bent, just enough to cause problems. That's the best I can come up with. I'll have to give them a call, but I vaguely remember them saying 500. But, that could mean anything considering 500cc itself would be low. I know there's an older misfire-related thread on this forum that I've read front to back (~43 pages), but I couldn't find an instance of anyone having their injectors cleaned only to find that the injector was bad. I'll pull it today, check the connection, and swap one more time. Thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrisco Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I'm rooting for you Stkmlts. I've had very similar misfire issues for years. You guys are taking the trouble shooting to a whole new level. I blame myself for the issues, as my lgt is extremely modified. I will say my tuner recommended a new ecu. I wasn't willing to spend that much money on a fix that might not work. Hoping you figure it out. I've had my lgt for nearly 12 years (one owner) and I'm not ready to let go of it yet. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Yes. So I used all idle (cold and warm) values from a jdm ecu map to improve my idle. Curious, since most JDM models are EJ20 models. Which ROM? Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hero2zero Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 I'll have to give them a call, but I vaguely remember them saying 500. But, that could mean anything considering 500cc itself would be low. I know there's an older misfire-related thread on this forum that I've read front to back (~43 pages), but I couldn't find an instance of anyone having their injectors cleaned only to find that the injector was bad. I'll pull it today, check the connection, and swap one more time. Thanks for your input. Quoting myself for an update. I pulled #2 and #4 injectors and tested with a multimeter. #4 sits at 12.5 ohms and #2 measured around 12.0. I'm not sure what the tolerances are supposed to be, but it seems that 12.5 might be a bit out of range. I switched them on install and, sure enough, started detecting misfires on cylinder 2 (using btssm). Gotta head to Hueberger for a new injector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Check ebay first if you're feeling frisky My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Curious, since most JDM models are EJ20 models. Which ROM? You're right. It was for a vehicle with an ej20x/y. However the injectors are the same sidefeed injectors for our 05-06 LGTs in the specific rom I found and used. It may be from an ADM Liberty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Since my last update I've adjusted the AFR in the 900rpm row a couple of times and it doesn't look like it's helped (see chart #4). As long as America doesn't implode after today's elections I'm going to bring the 900rpm row back down to -1 (that was AFR test #3, for AFR test #4 I have the values set at -2), and I'm going to change the adjusted values in the 800rpm row up to -1.5. The amount of fuel I'm "wasting" on this experiment doesn't bother me, but I'd rather not dump a ton of fuel into the motor if I don't have to. So.... Adding fuel obviously helped. Whenever I come to a stop I'm still cringing at the inevitable misses, but they're pleasantly softer and almost ignore-able. Should I continue this experiment and take away fuel (higher AFR than stock) to see if the misses get worse? Lean is bad and usually undesirable, but assuming the motor doesn't knock, my logic is telling me that 20 seconds of idling at 15.7 AFR and 0.4 load wouldn't do any permanent damage. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 That was a bad idea. I had my laptop with me today so I reflashed the AFR-rev5 changes while I was in the parking lot before my commute home... during rush hour, in the dark, in the rain. My idle was total crap and stalling was out of control. Creaping forward at <10 mph was all but impossible without bouncing up and down looking like one of those $0.25 ride-a-pony rides in front of an old K-mart. All of thay garbage is pretty usual stuff that I expect to see after a reflash, I just shouldn't have reflashed right before entering stop and go traffic. Sent from inner space. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 It think you should have been ok if you let the car idle for like 3-5mn without touching the gas pedal. At least my 06 needs that after a reset. With the 05, I can drive her right away without any weird idling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I should have done that but I didn't think to. What do you guys think I should be learning from this little experiment? I'm leaning towards focusing my efforts on finding a fueling problem. ---Adding fuel at idle improves the misfires. ---My gas mileage is consistent with what I've seen since owning the car, but 18.5 mpg seems to be lower than many other people see in their mostly-stock LGTs. Possibly related (and certainly needs addressed): ---Sometimes I notice a fuel smell outside of the car, and when the tank is 100% full a small amount of fuel (50ml*) leaks out overnight and creates a small wet spot on the ground in front of the rear wheel. *fluid leakage estimate is in metric for birkhoff. -edit- and xt2005bonbon, but only partially because he's in the US and should be using our confusing measuring system. Edited November 9, 2016 by StkmltS My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 *fluid leakage estimate is in metric for birkhoff. And myself!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 And myself!! post 662 edited for your pleasure My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utc_pyro Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) You're right. It was for a vehicle with an ej20x/y. However the injectors are the same sidefeed injectors for our 05-06 LGTs in the specific rom I found and used. It may be from an ADM Liberty. So it needs to be whatever model came with the "14003AB931" TGV's in Japan/ADM? It appears those were used on the ADM FXT at least, and some modesl of the Legacy in Japan. Having a bunch of idel issues that started when the TGV's were changed. Edited November 9, 2016 by utc_pyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) So it needs to be whatever model came with the "14003AB931" TGV's in Japan/ADM? It appears those were used on the ADM FXT at least, and some modesl of the Legacy in Japan. Having a bunch of idel issues that started when the TGV's were changed. Yes; I just checked last night. I compared two different roms. One was an 06 JDM 2.0 lgt and the second was an 06 ADM liberty. Both have the same injector scalar and latency. I don't have the ecu name with me though. If someone wants, I can list each table I used from the maps. Basically, anything with idle fueling was changed. See the post below to view the tables. Edited November 10, 2016 by rhino6303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 ^ yes please! I may not use the table but I'd at least like to give it a look-see. Sent from inner space. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Funny, I was just working on an '06 JDM GT that had stumbling / stalling issues. A2UH000A. Yes they do share the same injectors. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 As promised, here are the tables. The first in each is from a 2005 LGT with A2W522CN ecu. The second is from a 2006 ADM Liberty GT with A2WD010Y ecu and the last is from a 2006 JDM Legacy GT with A2UG000B ecu. For my map, I used all values from the A2UG000B and have no ill effects in about 10K miles. The values from the A2WD010Y seem to be a balance between both. I apologize for the issues with picture quality as I was having trouble getting them cropped and saved correctly. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240517&stc=1&d=1478749195 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240518&stc=1&d=1478749195 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240519&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240520&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240521&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240522&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240523&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240524&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240525&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240526&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240527&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240528&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240529&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240530&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240531&stc=1&d=1478749555 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240532&stc=1&d=1478749555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 Thanks for taking the time to post those tables. Why did you decide to change your map in the first place? Was there any noticeable difference after switching to the A2UG000B values? My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Thanks for taking the time to post those tables. Why did you decide to change your map in the first place? Was there any noticeable difference after switching to the A2UG000B values? After installing the jdm tgv deletes my car was always rough at idle (especially at initial start and during warmup). It hunted to stabilize the idle and I saw a lot of a/f correction. There was no vacuum leak and maf scaling was spot on (within 3%). After searching for a while I found the maps associated with foreign models that used sidefeed injectors and saw that everything dealing with idle and startup was different. So i thought I'd give it a shot. My car now runs great at initial start and rarely misfires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 I'm convinced. I'm leading an orienteering class/course for my scout troop this weekend so it may have to wait until Sunday. I can't imagine it fixing my problem but just the chance of a slight improvement is worth the effort. I'm VERY glad I went opensource vs Cobb. I've also been thinking about turning my boost back up a little sooner than planned My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 I revised my ROM with the A2UG000B tables and flashed it to the car two days ago. I'm sure the new tables are are good thing, but I can't see a difference in the way its idling. For quite a while I've had a small fuel leak near the filler tube. I replace the FP gasket but that didn't help. I've been semi-ignoring the problem, assuming it's a minor-but-dangerous issue, but maybe it's the root cause of my misfires. Adjusting my target AFR @ idle definitely improved my idle, which sounds like it could be evidence to support a fuel deliver problem. For my next reflash I'm going to change the target AFR back to stock, and change the fuel pump duty cycle to always be at 100%... if I can remember where I saw the 2d table in the ROM. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heiche Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Do you ever get any EVAP-related error codes? BtSsm - Android app/Bluetooth adapter. LV, logging, gauges and more. For 05-14 Legacy (GT, 2.5, 3.0, 3.6), 02-14 WRX, 04-14 STi, 04-14 FXT, 05-09 OBXT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 Do you ever get any EVAP-related error codes? I vaguely remember getting a "gas cap" code once a couple years ago, but that memory could easily have been from a different vehicle. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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