is this my clutch?

[StickyBL6]

from my understanding its my clutch but i wanted to double check with everyone and see if anyone else has had this issue.. so i was driving home yesterday on the freeway in my 07 LGT. i changed it into sport mode (foot off the gas while changing modes) and when i gave it some gas i noticed it start to slip. car was doing about 70 and was going from 3k to bout 6k rpm with my foot on the gas. i do notice that when i put it in intelligent mode it doesnt have this problem. even if i floor it. i also belive its my clutch cause when it does slip in sport mode or sport sharp mode.. it smells like burnt clutch really bad.. i remember this same thing happening to my honda when the clutch went out. the only difference here is that this car has "modes", and when its using full power or even 80%(sport) it slips.. anyone have any ideas if its the clutch like i think or is it something different?

Thanks,

-Josh

ps. i have a video i just dont know how to post it here.. i have it posted on facebook under my profile and the Bay Area Subaru Legacy group

[AF_3C2]

If it feels like clutch, and smells like clutch, more than likely is clutch.....don't know of anything else that would give you the symptoms like that.

 

How many miles on your clutch?

 

Power mods?

 

Are you letting the clutch dump while at the 3k mark and based on the gear and speed you are going causing the RPMs to jump to 6k? That would kill any stock clutch....

 

I am no expert on I-drive, as my 05 does not have that feature. Seems odd that it would cause that much of a difference in power to cause slippage, but if it's because you are dumping the clutch without rev-matching before hand.......

 

Hopefully someone can help you out on the issue. Regardless, start shopping for a new clutch and either plan on doing it yourself or find a reputable shop.

[StickyBL6]

yea thats how what and how im thinking. i didnt know if it was maybe something in the I-Drive. Im not dumping my clutch at 3k or even messing with it when im at 3k. im saying my rpms are at 3k when im on the freeway at 65-70mph, when i push (getting on it) on the gas it slips and and jumps to 6k then back down to the reg 3k when i let off. im not dumping the clutch on a downshift and I AM rev matching when i do down shift so i know its not that. Been driving a standard for about 10 years now so i think i have the basics down haha (not trying to be rude just joking around). if i knew how to post the video i could show u what i mean. I bought the car in october so i dont know how many miles are on it. i do know the car has a SPT intake, Exhaust, Lowering springs. other then that shes completely stock. i do know the i drive show a graph and the intellgent mode is like 40% sport is like 80% and sport sharp is a drastic straight line up and across showing 100% on the graph (numbers arnt there but if u know how to read a graph thats what it would show, or close to the numbers). im looking at getting a new clutch just need to figure out what brand i should go with and what stage i should get? also i heard its not an easy job. everyone is saying ill need a lift.. is this true?

[Max Capacity]

Yep, start looking for a new clutch. read in the tranny forum, lots of info.

Southbend seems to be the new clutch of choice.

 

I have great luck with Spec clutches, check out their web sites.

[AF_3C2]

Ok- just from how you first described it my brain made it sound like you were dumping the clutch- no offense intended.

 

But if you are jumping from 3k to 6k in normal driving just switching the modes, then yeah, your clutch is slipping pretty bad.

 

And you probably already have read this, but running a non-stock intake without tune is bad mojo for these cars- your quick mod list does not mention tuning, so you should be concerned with that.

 

When shopping for your clutch, keep in mind future mods you wish to do- even stage 2 will cause the clutch to wear faster over stock, and usually a good idea to get a stronger clutch now while having it done instead of having to do it over again based on higher power output further down the road.

 

Least you have an 07 and don't have to deal with a dual mass.....

[StickyBL6]

Ok- just from how you first described it my brain made it sound like you were dumping the clutch- no offense intended.

 

But if you are jumping from 3k to 6k in normal driving just switching the modes, then yeah, your clutch is slipping pretty bad.

 

And you probably already have read this, but running a non-stock intake without tune is bad mojo for these cars- your quick mod list does not mention tuning, so you should be concerned with that.

 

When shopping for your clutch, keep in mind future mods you wish to do- even stage 2 will cause the clutch to wear faster over stock, and usually a good idea to get a stronger clutch now while having it done instead of having to do it over again based on higher power output further down the road.

 

Least you have an 07 and don't have to deal with a dual mass.....

all good man i re read it to and i saw how ur brain put that together.. my bad on the way i worded it haha. ya i have heard that, read alot about it when i looking at buying the car when i was doing my research, see i didnt mention a tune cause i dont know if it doesn or not.. i WANT to say it does cause ive done 155 mph in it and i know the stock gov. is set at 135mph. also cause my buddy who has a tuned wrx drove mine and said it probably has the same tune.. but yea i dont know for sure.. these are just what ive done to figure out or give me an idea. i only plan on maybe an exhaust, bigger turbo and injectors. what do u mean by "a stage 2 will cause the clutch to wear out fast then a stock" ?? i was thinking of going a stage 2 cause of the mods i want but i dont wanna do that if its gonna cause my clutch to go sooner cause i dont have enough power. ?? thats what i got outta that lol and whats the dual mass?

[StickyBL6]

Yep, start looking for a new clutch. read in the tranny forum, lots of info.

Southbend seems to be the new clutch of choice.

 

I have great luck with Spec clutches, check out their web sites.

 

i was looking at Spec, ACT, Excedy. i did see some southbends and they were not priced to bad.. which kinda scared me cause i know you get what you pay for in this world.. the south bend stage 2 isnt priced bad and it seems like what i would need.. said the daily handles up to 315 ft/lbs.. anyone have a southbend?

[AF_3C2]

what do u mean by "a stage 2 will cause the clutch to wear out fast then a stock" ?? i was thinking of going a stage 2 cause of the mods i want but i dont wanna do that if its gonna cause my clutch to go sooner cause i dont have enough power. ?? thats what i got outta that lol

 

Modding out to make more power, or more importantly more torque, which going Stage 2 in power mods (downpipe, tune) will do, will cause more wear on a stock configured clutch. The stock clutch is Exedy, and has been known to not last as long with higher power levels and the more spirited driving habits that more power tends to bring out.

 

It is possible to expect good life out of a stock clutch at Stage 2 power levels- if you drive it more like a granny most the time. From my reading, and be sure to check the drivetrain forums for your own research, is that you should expect lower life expectancy of a stock clutch once you start making more power.

 

So in regards to that assumption, if you already have to replace the clutch now, it would probably be in your best interest to pay a little more for a stronger clutch to put in the car now so that it will not become a headache again once you do make more power.

 

I think you need to take a good look at your downpipe to see if you already have an aftermarket one- and maybe the previous owner did a Stage 2 install on your car already (if a COBB AP didn't come with it, maybe an open source tune). You did not mention which mods and tune your buddy's WRX has- or even which year- to make a good comparison.

 

Your LGT, stock, should be around 240hp/240 ft/tq., at the crank.

 

1st and 2nd Gen WRX (02-07, plus 08) made around 227 hp (not sure on tq)

3rd Gen (09-14) WRX bumped up to 265 hp /245 ft lb from the stock VF-52 turbo (really nice street turbo and great on the LGT)

 

The LGT should feel better in acceleration (not handling) than the 1st and 2nd gen WRX. 3rd gen is a different story (I've owned 2 09s).

[StickyBL6]

Modding out to make more power, or more importantly more torque, which going Stage 2 in power mods (downpipe, tune) will do, will cause more wear on a stock configured clutch. The stock clutch is Exedy, and has been known to not last as long with higher power levels and the more spirited driving habits that more power tends to bring out.

 

It is possible to expect good life out of a stock clutch at Stage 2 power levels- if you drive it more like a granny most the time. From my reading, and be sure to check the drivetrain forums for your own research, is that you should expect lower life expectancy of a stock clutch once you start making more power.

 

So in regards to that assumption, if you already have to replace the clutch now, it would probably be in your best interest to pay a little more for a stronger clutch to put in the car now so that it will not become a headache again once you do make more power.

 

I think you need to take a good look at your downpipe to see if you already have an aftermarket one- and maybe the previous owner did a Stage 2 install on your car already (if a COBB AP didn't come with it, maybe an open source tune). You did not mention which mods and tune your buddy's WRX has- or even which year- to make a good comparison.

 

Your LGT, stock, should be around 240hp/240 ft/tq., at the crank.

 

1st and 2nd Gen WRX (02-07, plus 08) made around 227 hp (not sure on tq)

3rd Gen (09-14) WRX bumped up to 265 hp /245 ft lb from the stock VF-52 turbo (really nice street turbo and great on the LGT)

 

The LGT should feel better in acceleration (not handling) than the 1st and 2nd gen WRX. 3rd gen is a different story (I've owned 2 09s).

 

Ahh ok that makes more sense about the clutch. Sorry man. he has a 06 WRX with a bigger turbo upgrade, intake, exhaust with out a down pipe but said his tune is for a downpipe. My LGT did not come with a Cobb AP, which is another reason i didnt know if it was tuned or not. also didnt know if you could do a tune with out the Cobb AP? also what do u mean maybe the owner previous to me did a stage 2 install? stage 2 what? clutch? tune? lol sorry for the dumb questions.

[AF_3C2]

For the most part, when not specifically stating otherwise, Stage 2 refers to the power upgrade of an aftermarket down pipe (divorced wastegate or bellmouth) and a supporting tune. You cannot run a down pipe without a tune. Some add an intake modification to the definition, but not always.

 

There are three main ways to tune our cars- these are not the only options, just the top three:

 

- Cobb Access Port (likely most popular due to ease of use)

- Open Source (requires specific cable with specific chipset and a laptop with open source tools)

- Proprietary vendor such as EcuTEK.

 

With a Cobb AP, a tune can be loaded and the AP removed from the car, but the AP will be "married" to that ECU until it is "unmarried". Only Cobb can remove the "married" association from an AP and ECU if the AP is lost or stolen before being "unmarried".

 

Open Source is much more flexible where you load a tune from your laptop via a TACTRIX cable. Typically cheaper than either Cobb AP and EcuTEK, but more complicated (depending on the person) and doesn't have as strong a backing- you are relying on your tuner and the open source community for support.

 

When you decide to do a tune, research the tuners here on the site- there are quite a few on here. Decide on which tune methodology you want to go with and which tuners will support which (Cobb AP, Open Source, or EcuTEK, etc.).

 

If you know what you are looking for in regards to your down pipe, you should take a look at yours to determine if you already have an aftermarket one. If your buddy that has such a modified WRX thinks your car is just as powerful, that sounds like you might possibly already be at least Stage 2 with a tune. If so, you better hope it is an open source tune and not an AP tune.

 

See if anyone on the forums who lives close to you has a TACTRIX cable (the one used for open source) and pull your current map from the ECU so you can post on here to have someone look it over- that will verify if you have a stock tune or not.

 

You maybe lucky and already running a tuned Stage 2 setup. Stage 3 typically refers to a turbo swap with supporting mods (fueling, tune, intake/FMIC/TMIC). Read through the tuning section to learn more.

[StickyBL6]

For the most part, when not specifically stating otherwise, Stage 2 refers to the power upgrade of an aftermarket down pipe (divorced wastegate or bellmouth) and a supporting tune. You cannot run a down pipe without a tune. Some add an intake modification to the definition, but not always.

 

There are three main ways to tune our cars- these are not the only options, just the top three:

 

- Cobb Access Port (likely most popular due to ease of use)

- Open Source (requires specific cable with specific chipset and a laptop with open source tools)

- Proprietary vendor such as EcuTEK.

 

With a Cobb AP, a tune can be loaded and the AP removed from the car, but the AP will be "married" to that ECU until it is "unmarried". Only Cobb can remove the "married" association from an AP and ECU if the AP is lost or stolen before being "unmarried".

 

Open Source is much more flexible where you load a tune from your laptop via a TACTRIX cable. Typically cheaper than either Cobb AP and EcuTEK, but more complicated (depending on the person) and doesn't have as strong a backing- you are relying on your tuner and the open source community for support.

 

When you decide to do a tune, research the tuners here on the site- there are quite a few on here. Decide on which tune methodology you want to go with and which tuners will support which (Cobb AP, Open Source, or EcuTEK, etc.).

 

If you know what you are looking for in regards to your down pipe, you should take a look at yours to determine if you already have an aftermarket one. If your buddy that has such a modified WRX thinks your car is just as powerful, that sounds like you might possibly already be at least Stage 2 with a tune. If so, you better hope it is an open source tune and not an AP tune.

 

See if anyone on the forums who lives close to you has a TACTRIX cable (the one used for open source) and pull your current map from the ECU so you can post on here to have someone look it over- that will verify if you have a stock tune or not.

 

You maybe lucky and already running a tuned Stage 2 setup. Stage 3 typically refers to a turbo swap with supporting mods (fueling, tune, intake/FMIC/TMIC). Read through the tuning section to learn more.

 

ok cool ill have to check around and see if there anyone in the area. ill def be reading throught the tuning section some more cause i know i want to do a bit more to it and i know its gonna need a tune and i have no idea what to do since this would be the first car i would tune. didnt get this "If your buddy that has such a modified WRX thinks your car is just as powerful, that sounds like you might possibly already be at least Stage 2 with a tune. If so, you better hope it is an open source tune and not an AP tune." why would i want to hope its an open tune? cause it maybe "married"? also if it was tuned by a Cobb AP(just pretending) and it was married and i didn't get the cobb when i bought the car, can i buy a new one and marry it to my ecu even tho it had the other one? or does it have to get unmarried first?

[AF_3C2]

It has to get unmarried first. Your ECU will not talk to another AP until it has been- if you were tuned by AP in the first place.

 

IF it has been married to an AP and the previous owner did not unmarry before selling the car to you, then I think your only recourse is to send the ECU to Cobb or get a new one. It would have been idiotic of the previous owner to not unmarry before hand- even though a used AP goes for $300-$600, they are practically worthless if they have not been unmarried. Cobb charges a hefty price to unmarry an AP by itself.

 

This is why I think that IF you are tuned, because we do not know for certain at this point- it was more than likely done by open source. All this is still a big if at this time until you can verify if you have a down pipe and then see if you have a custom tune.

[StickyBL6]

It has to get unmarried first. Your ECU will not talk to another AP until it has been- if you were tuned by AP in the first place.

 

IF it has been married to an AP and the previous owner did not unmarry before selling the car to you, then I think your only recourse is to send the ECU to Cobb or get a new one. It would have been idiotic of the previous owner to not unmarry before hand- even though a used AP goes for $300-$600, they are practically worthless if they have not been unmarried. Cobb charges a hefty price to unmarry an AP by itself.

 

This is why I think that IF you are tuned, because we do not know for certain at this point- it was more than likely done by open source. All this is still a big if at this time until you can verify if you have a down pipe and then see if you have a custom tune.

Cool thank you man for all your help. last question is im thinking of going a stage 3 clutch.. my question is would it be an overkill or cause issues?

[AF_3C2]

I don't have any info for higher power level clutches. You will have to wait for someone else to chime in on that- I have yet to replace mine.

 

But if I had to guess, Stage 3 clutch would be overkill if you are going to just Stage 2 power levels. Read up in the Transmissions thread- and check the stickies there- and maybe post there for advice. Be sure to mention planned power upgrades and driving style.