Redryan98 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Hey there. recently I bought an 05 outback XT with blown turbo and most likely ruined motor. Plenty of metal flakes came out with the oil. The car has 176k miles so I've decided to just replace the shortblock regardless of what condition the existing one is in. Plans for the car are Vf52 stage one for now, maybe stage 2 down the road. I don't want more than 300 hp. Not going for max power, just want something quick and reliable. I have pretty much everything I need at this point, but two questions came up recently. 1) I pulled the radiator and its a mess. Probably best to replace it. Is it worth the 270ish for a mishimoto vs 235 for OE subaru or ~120ish for aftermarket stock replacement 2) Is it worth going with ARP head studs instead of reusing stock ones? I know they are fantastic but if I never push the car high enough to see their benefit, is it worth it? So here's a list of the parts sitting in the basement ready to go in OE 257 short block OE gasket Kit Vf52 Turbo, slightly used zero shaft play OE Turbo Install Kit Heads will be inspected/rebuilt Gates Timing Belt kit with Water Pump Catless Up Pipe Killer B Oil pickup and Baffle OE Extra S for Trans/Dif OE oil pan OE oil cooler OE oil pump Magnetic Drain Plug Cobb AP V3 - will get tuned once car is running Rotella T6 w/ Subaru Filter NGK plugs OE T Stat and Gasket OE Air Filter OE PCV Slightly used OE Turbo inlet and TB hose OE Coolant Group N Motor Mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05sleeper Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 It's always nice having a slightly larger radiator that cold better but with it in the long run I wouldn't say so. It is less likely to blow apart over the stock plastic endtanks. I run a koyo aluminum one and love it but rely not needed just seems more reliable over stock. As for the arp studs they are amazing but if you're not looking to make power even down the road then the stock will be fine. I run them on the new motor because I'll be running 25psi wanting 400+ so if you never want to get over 320+ then stick with stock to save some coin. Just make sure you torque them to Subaru spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05sleeper Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Damn autocorrect sucks on this phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 ^Thank you sir. I'm thinking the same, yes on the mishi radiator, no on the studs. If I won't gain any reliability with the ARP studs at <300 hp than there's no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The ARP studs are another $200's worth of insurance that, under boost or other loads, you won't blow a HG. I say do it, at least for the peace of mind. Other than that, your list looks good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Also, looks like you've got the KB baffle and a new pan on there -- That's like, what, $400-ish(?) you could put somewhere else. Your stock baffle and pan can go through a parts washer once or twice and be rid of any metal that might be in there. Unless you're tracking the car, the KB baffle is overkill, as it's really only designed to help prevent oil starvation during hard cornering during competition events. It's overkill, even for AutoX on weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Thanks for the info. The pickup and baffle together were $250. Went with OE Pan, not the killer b one. Heard of several people who had stock pickups go so I figured it was good insurance. The baffle probably wasn't completely necessary but for $70 on its own went for it anyway. What I really haven't heard of much with the 2.5 turbo are head gasket failures, or issues with the studs at stock-ish power levels which is why I'm still on the fence. I'm failry confident that the stock ones will be fine (again I'll go no more than 300 hp, 250 most likely) and at that power level ARP might be overkill. But we'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee07 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Good list of parts, I'd replace the Ignition coils, upper and lower radiator hoses and thermostat as well since it has 170k. Yes to upgrading the radiator and Arp studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05sleeper Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Arps are def nice but the motor in my car now has 143xxx miles at 19 psi for 30,xxx of those with stock bolts never taken out and not a single issue so far. It is nice insurance but under 300awhp it's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted July 11, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 11, 2014 Replace the oil crossover pipe if needed. A new fuel pump could be considered a bit of a maintenance item depending on mileage. If you are buying a new oil pan, source one for a late model STi to ensure proper shape to allow for headers down the road (you or another owner) and better baffling in the pan. Also a new stock turbo inlet if the old one has served its purpose. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Good list of parts, I'd replace the Ignition coils, upper and lower radiator hoses and thermostat as well since it has 170k. Yes to upgrading the radiator and Arp studs. Good feedback. I forgot to mention I have a new T stat also. radiator hoses are in very good shape so I'll keep em for now. Coils I'll leave alone for now as well. Will definitely go with a new radiator, studs I'm not sure on yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Truth. It's all the little things that will kill you slowly -- Water pump, T-stat, hoses (any and/or ALL of them) gaskets you don't have in the kit -- then stuff you want that's a cheap upgrade, like phenolic spacers, or the double-thick GS exh gaskets (which, you should get, too), the TMIC flange gasket (Mr Gasket p/n 738) having the injectors cleaned/replaced, etc, etc, etc.. It all adds up and soon enough, your 3k project is over budget at 5, 6, 7k.. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 ^Very true. My goal is get the major parts in now and running well. I'll address a second round of updates/maintenance next spring when bonus/tax rebates come around. Including the price of the car I'm at about $6500 so far. Still have no idea what non-engine stuff it will need (suspension, brakes, bearings, etc...). I had originally budgeted $6k to get her running, will probably end up around $7k. But I did sell my motorcycle to fund this project so its not too big of a deal. Its expensive for sure, but I would rather rebuild one of these for $10k and have it basically new than buy one for $10k and have to do all this stuff eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 ^Very true. My goal is get the major parts in now and running well. I'll address a second round of updates/maintenance next spring when bonus/tax rebates come around. Including the price of the car I'm at about $6500 so far. Still have no idea what non-engine stuff it will need (suspension, brakes, bearings, etc...). I had originally budgeted $6k to get her running, will probably end up around $7k. But I did sell my motorcycle to fund this project so its not too big of a deal. Its expensive for sure, but I would rather rebuild one of these for $10k and have it basically new than buy one for $10k and have to do all this stuff eventually. Would you put a dirty diaper back on a newborn baby? You can't throw possibly dangerous used parts onto a new shortblock. Water pump and timing gear should definitely be replaced - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 ^ Ahh never! I have a new Gates timing belt kit with water pump. I knew I'd forget to list some of the parts I bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I'd recommend springing for the factory H20 pump if your going to do it. my gates pump was way down on quality compared to the OEM. plus it was all banged up from being in the box with the pulleys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 I thought gates was the OE supplier for Subaru WP. no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I thought gates was the OE supplier for Subaru WP. no? Not necessarily. Gates mainly does belts and rubber hoses -- Water pumps aren't exactly in their wheelhouse. (pun intended?) Get the OE WP, or you can find a Bosch unit for pretty decent on Amazon. See the GOOD IDEAS parts thread sticky. Also, if you haven't yet, see my Engine Rebuild Shopping List to see if you've missed anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 definitely not factory supplier for the water pump. the gates pump is China made, factory is Japan made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Roger that. Thanks for the info guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FknBoss Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I believe aisin is factory waterpump and mitsuboshi for the belt. Arp 100% if you have the money. I'm not a fan of OE headgaskets I only use fel pro sixstar or cometic. How's your water bypass tube that goes to the oil cooler? Mine was rotted so bad it was seeping. It was only like 2x.xx with my shop discount. Maybe upgrade to silicone hoses. Maybe invest in a kit to get all the ones that are a pain. Make sure you leave banjo screens out. I would only use OE seals for cams crank seal and rear main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05sleeper Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The idlers and tensioner in my buddies gates kit for his 06 wrx matched his oem ones perfectly, numbers and color but yea water pump was different. A lot of our oem drive belts from Subaru are gates belts as well as mitsuboshi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 I believe aisin is factory waterpump and mitsuboshi for the belt. Arp 100% if you have the money. I'm not a fan of OE headgaskets I only use fel pro sixstar or cometic. How's your water bypass tube that goes to the oil cooler? Mine was rotted so bad it was seeping. It was only like 2x.xx with my shop discount. Maybe upgrade to silicone hoses. Maybe invest in a kit to get all the ones that are a pain. Make sure you leave banjo screens out. I would only use OE seals for cams crank seal and rear main. Thanks for the info. I found an aisin WP for around $65, will probably go with that. I will probably end up getting the ARP studs just for insurance. What I want, more than anything, is a motor that is going to be reliable. If the ARP will be good insurance, I'll go with them. Found a set for 180 Not sure which hose the bypass tube is. If its the one I'm thinking of, metal one at the bottom front of the engine, than yes it will be replaced as well. I haven't pulled the motor yet so once we do we'll go over everything and replace whatever is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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