Fenix_guyver Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 OK, I don't really know where to start, but I'll shoot away and if anyone has any links to point me in the right direction instead of answering that's perfect too. I just purchased my second Liberty as a project car, a Second Gen 1997 Liberty GX 2.2L Manual, a little bit of paint problems, horrible clutch that won't release until your foot is completely off the pedal, a knock in the engine that goes a lot quiter after it warms up, plastic air bleed screw in the top of the radiator perished and just used the closest thread screw as a temp job, engine fairly clean and a lot fixed or replaced, just flushed oil and replaced with Penrite 5w40 hpr5 (still hear the knock as above), 232000ks body in pretty good condition. My aim is to maybe reach 250hp roughly I'm not wanting a monster but it would be nice to reach at least 200 I guess. Now a few months before I purchased my first Subaru and first Liberty, a Third Gen 1999 Liberty 2.5L heritage Automatic, 206000 ks when I bought it (212000 now), have since changed knock sensor, rear shockers, left inner tie rod/rack end(mechanics call them different things), timing belt and water pump all seals and hydrolic tensioner, other repairs are needed but not engine wise as far as I know, has noisy lifters and mechanic has said just to oil treat it, I have done all the work myself so far with a bit of help from here and there with friends or family. I like this car as a daily driver but am not interested in the car as much as the gen2 fixing up wise. I am not a mechanic, just OK with mechanical stuff and have just started learning about cars on the Gen3, never minded getting my hands dirty or a hard challenge or big project, am trying to do this as cheap as possible and don't have a set price, as I will just continue until the Gen2 is completed. The questions flow now I guess (consider that I am not entirely confident that I would want to turbo anything): What could I do with these two to build up the Gen2? What phase engine is the Gen2 and Gen3? What engine parts could I swap and why? What can I do to restore the engines? What is involved with a rebuild, is it worth it or buy another or swap for a reconditioned one? What sort of things should/could I do for the rest of the car besides the engine(I have already decided on looks for body, as this is the main reason for the project)? What engine would be best to use out of the two SOHC 2.2 or SOHC 2.5? What wiring issues could I face? Maybe an estimated cost of things once they are all decided on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 I do realize this is mostly a non-Australian Forum, but have been looking on here for the last two years and any help would be great and welcomed, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 a Second Gen 1997 Liberty GX 2.2L Manual, a knock in the engine that goes a lot quiter after it warms up, = this may be the same as a 98 here in the US. the asian market was usually one model year ahead of the US. if so then it probably has the ''new style'' one piece t-belt tensioner. if so, replace it and you will likely correct the knock. you can use a mechanic's stethoscope to isolate the knock. it is probablt near the fron of the engine behind the tming belt cover on the battery side of the engine. plastic air bleed screw in the top of the radiator perished and just used the closest thread screw as a temp job, easy fix if you did not mess up the threads. look for part numbers at http://opposedforces.com/parts . you probably want to use the european listings, but i'm not 100% sure. engine fairly clean and a lot fixed or replaced, this is good. My aim is to maybe reach 250hp roughly I'm not wanting a monster but it would be nice to reach at least 200 I guess. buy a WRX and save yourself a lot of headaches and money. What could I do with these two to build up the Gen2? nothing. What phase engine is the Gen2 and Gen3? the 97 is phase 1 engine, the 99 SOHC 2.5 is a phase 2 What engine parts could I swap and why? assume none will swap. some probably will, but they are not really interchangeable. although you could swap either block under either set of heads. but the heads and intakes MUST stay together they do not swap. and some of the sensors may swap, but not all. What can I do to restore the engines? replace the timing belts and ALL the idlers, including the water pump ans oil seals on the front of the engine. change the oil every 5000km or more often. if you pull the engine, replace the ''oil separator plate'' on the rear of the block. the early ones, 90 - 98 maybe 99, were plastic and would leak bad as they aged. What is involved with a rebuild, is it worth it or buy another or swap for a reconditioned one? replacing the head gaskets, checking the heads for flatness, checking the valves, and doing the timing belt is not too hard. but i would wait to do the head gaskets until you need to do them. but replacing pistons, rings, and bearings is difficult and can be expensive. unless you like working on engines and have a lot of money, i would suggest you find a good used engine before you split the block. What sort of things should/could I do for the rest of the car besides the engine(I have already decided on looks for body, as this is the main reason for the project)? put outback (heritage?) struts on the liberty for a bit of a lift. What engine would be best to use out of the two SOHC 2.2 or SOHC 2.5? the ej22 is a much more reliable and a much more forgiving engine. but it has 20 - 25% less HP and less low end torque. the ej25 has more power and the potential for head gasket failure. (usually it is a slow external coolant or maybe oil leak.) and as long as you keep your fluids topped off, you can drive it a long time before you will be forced to fix it. What wiring issues could I face? i assume you mean if you swap engines??? you will have to swap the wire harness and the ECU if you swap engines. having said all of this, the one thing you might consider doing is to use the ej25 block with the ej22 heads and intake in the 97 car. this will give you more power than the ej22 engine, without the gasket issues of the ej25. but if you were to do the same work, replace the gaskets in the ej25, you would have more power than the ej22 or the ''frankenmotor'', and you will have eliminated the head gasket issue for a very long time. (use the subaru head gasket for the turbo engine.) hth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'll start off with a thank you, it did help. (Although now it has posed more questions and I have more to ask, sorry!) I was reading somewhere that I might not need to swap the wiring if I swap the 2.5 into the Gen2 but keep the 2.2 heads can you shed a little more light on that? Ecu wise what would i need? (As my 2.5 is an auto and would like to leave it manual) I have found bits and pieces all over the net of what I might be able to do, but not really found something that is similar or the same project wise (with the exception of a NZ fellas gen2 custom body kit) I would love to change to a WRX to make things easy, but I just don't like the shape of any of them with exceptions to the 98 model with slim headlights. I really am hung up on the liberty/legacy Gen2. Is there any other routes I could take engine wise (difficulty is not a problem). When I said cheap I mean as cheap as I could do it with best parts... Not really cheap as in old engines. I would buy a reco engine or reco one myself but I'm not going to buy a new cosworth engine. Johnegg you said that I would have more power from just the 2.5 with the gaskets done but from reading about frankenmotors would the 2.5 with 2.2 heads be a little bit more powerful than the 2.5 with its own heads? Basically I am going to strip back the whole car and fix everything, replace most if not all parts with better quality ones maybe even STi parts and even respray it and make a custom body kit including wide body kit. So putting in the best engine I can. Changing wiring and what not is not going to bother me. The only things I would pay someone else for is any machining I cannot do. Some fabrication won't be an issue for me. Otherwise I want to do all the work myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Johnegg you said that I would have more power from just the 2.5 with the gaskets done but from reading about frankenmotors would the 2.5 with 2.2 heads be a little bit more powerful than the 2.5 with its own heads? not enough to justify the expense. if that set up had more power they would ship it from the factory that way. subaru has been trying to squeeze more power out of the ej25 since they introduced it in 96. I was reading somewhere that I might not need to swap the wiring if I swap the 2.5 into the Gen2 but keep the 2.2 heads can you shed a little more light on that? if the ECU, the harness from there to the engine, the intake wiring and sensors, and sprockets all match each other you do not have to change anything else. the blocks are dumb. there are no smart parts on them. so it does not matter what block sits under the hood, at least not as far as engine management is concerned. you have a phase 1 engine and a phase 2 engine, this is not an easy swap zone. if they were swappable they would not differentiate between phases. they would all be the same. but they are not. buy a wrecked WRX and swap in the engine, harness and ECU, done. or an 05 - 09 turbo engine and harness / ecu. most subarus are economy cars, not high performance cars. if you want high performance, buy it don't build it. way cheaper in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Thanks mate. Shopping for wrecked WRX it is then... Any specific one/type or from year-year? Bugeye maybe. Not sure what I'll be looking for. I did see a 98 WRX(while hunting for an air bleed screw a few days ago at a wreckers) that has the front damaged and airbag ejected, not much of a crash (with 114000km's on the clock) fan I think it was, was barely touching the front pulley from what I could see. 2.0L. Something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 If possible could somebody please post a link to an EZ30 swap/build, it would be very helpful as I'm struggling to find an actual build anywhere on the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 So anyway, i have found someone else's project that i would like to swap into my car. They have done the WRX swap but the car isn't running and the information that i do know as to why that is, is that "it needs a new crank angle sensor" and "the Microtech plugged back in and redone", "engine has done 50-60,000Km's". Here is a link to the eBay post: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Subaru-Liberty-1997-Modified-WRX-VF34-Turbo-FMIC-3-Exhaust-Microtech-Etc-/291203524898?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43cd152922 Now my questions are; At $2600AU all this has been done and rewired and was running, does this make it worth it as half the work has been done for me? (If I just sort out the rest?) Is there anything that sounds alarming about this? Is it just worth it even if for the gearbox, wiring, rear diff conversion, WRX seats, turbo and goodies in it and go from there with whatever else i need? It is a bit urgent as I don't want to miss out on the sale but I do understand people are busy and any help is appreciated!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 crank sensor is easy, the microtech needs "redone" is what would bother me about it. this thing has been sitting for a few years, theres probably a good reason they parked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 OK, so after many searches I have found an STi motor out of an STi GC8 with 90,***Kilometres on it for purchase. It could be expensive but at this point I am not too fussed. would it be worth it? (Just following your advice johnegg ) It comes with these following parts (and that is all that is available): 5 Speed MT Shifter ECU Wiring Harness Turbo Front & Rear Axles Axle Shaft Ball Joints Exhaust Manifold and everything else in the front half of the car, bar the brake calipers, cluster, suspension, or rotors and rear of the car... front cut obviously. My questions now is with all of this... What problems will I face once I swap the engine? Will I need engine management? Will the other electrical components from my liberty throw engine codes and what not? as I read somewhere that the different fuel pump to the original for the WRX or something will. Anything else I am missing or need to consider? (Too bad i have to source brake upgrades and other WRX goodies elsewhere, don't know how im going to do that cheaply, although i could leave it as a sleeper ) *** I also found an JDM Legacy RS turbo (pretty much all the same parts come with it, but not STi I guess) with everything for slightly cheaper with 70,***Kilometres. Which one would be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 *** update the type of WRX is STi V4 apparently... Engine code GC8E4ED The "RS legacy" is actually a GTB... Engine code BG5B5CD I have no idea how to work out which one is better. If someone could help with that as well that would be swell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 the gc8e has about 280 HP and forged pistons. the other one, bottom end is basically the same as the Impreza STi version 4 (open-deck block), but top end will have slight changes for the twin turbo setup. thats what ive read at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Cheers! That's heaps more power 0.0 wow. Given the kilometres on the engine should I be worried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 i always worry. especially when there is so many parts involved. but that is pretty low, my car is just past 190k and i still let my kids drive it. if i had a turbo set up, it would be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 I didn't consider the fact I will have to change a differential maybe... The GT comes with the rear diff but the sti doesn't as far as I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 So I bought a '97 WRX STi front cut($4000) from mechanical stig (MCM) at Ichiban imports here locally instead, it comes with STi front and rear brakes and STi rear suspension, it has 175,000km's on it. I pussied out on the Hong Kong import ($46**) because I have no way to verify that it would actually have 89'000km's on it and didn't come with brakes or STi cluster. I guess a bit of security was better in my opinion, wish I took the HK one though. Anyway, it will arrive Friday or Monday. Now I need to make a trolley to move it around the garage before it arrives. I am going to remodel the dash to be custom for the STi goodies and look around for some WRX GD seats for the front and rear. I will also need some rims to clear the STi brakes on the Liberty. I am hoping to keep the stock ECU and everything else for the STi stuff. I am a bit less excited about the engine for some reason and mostly just releaved that I just have the engine sorted. Only just one question now, do I need to upgrade anything to match, like the fuel pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 I picked it all up today and it came with a Japanese card toll reader and STi steering wheel and all and rotors and brakes and an earth kit(which I have no idea what it does yet) and one front headlight and front bumper still. Over all it needs a thorough clean and restore. All rubber seems very old. All bushes will need replacing, so guess I'll just get a full kit for all the bushes. The only thing I am not looking forward to is getting this thing of the back of the truck in the next week. It weighs 700kg and I will have trouble getting it down. I wish I had a forklift at home haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 get some 4X4 posts and a chain winch. make a tall sawhorse out of the wood and put the chain winch at the top. i have access to one made of 2" square steel that will go up to 10ft tall and is wide enough to drive a truck under for lifting electrical gear. makes lifting really heavy shit pretty easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 Awesome, thanks, I didn't really think of that. Like an A-frame? Either way you have just helped me thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 I also bought this bad ass bumper to go with it. (Shipping was worth double that and customs and port fees will be worth more as well) http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/360956655469 Why must I like something so rare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 Well, now it is time to get down to the engine out stage information session. I would like to know if I can drop the engine with timing belt and transmission, not removed? (the quicker I can throw the engine in to fire it up the better use of one month warranty time I figure. after it is up and running I will pull it all and replace whatever is needing replacing) OR Can I pull the engine with timing belt on through the hoist method, obviously minus the transmission? The only reason I want to leave the timing belt alone in both cases is to minimise the initial amount of work and mucking around with it. I didn't have much fun with the timing belt in the Gen3 due to various tool shortages. I still need to rectify that once I have the car running and tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 I need new rubbers for the car too. Weatherstrips and door seals is what I mean. Does anyone know where I can get new replacement ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I would like to know if I can drop the engine with timing belt and transmission, not removed? OR Can I pull the engine with timing belt on through the hoist method, obviously minus the transmission? i dont see why you couldnt pull and replace the engines with the timing covers still on, there is plenty of room in that bay. especially if you yank the radiator. i think i would at least pull the covers off and check the timing belt on the new motor tho, along with the seals and such to make sure there were no obvious issues before dropping the motor back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Good point, the mechanic/ importer I bought it from had it running hot, but I don't want to risk any possible damage. A quick check is a must, I agree, I'll do that as soon as I get it out. Thanks mate you're a champ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix_guyver Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 So I have the dashboard out after a very steep learning curve and much frustration yesterday. A question again... Sorry. If I cut and splice in a connector for the loom to the dashboard on the WRX so I can just disconnect the dash and have it out quicker and switch wiring easier,(also for future problems if they arise) would this be a good idea or not? I understand with manufacturing things it may have been cheaper for them to do this but is it the only reason they did it? Or did Subaru choose this for quality or longevity reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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