shiby Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Forgive my ignorance but I'm not quite sure about this, still pretty new to tuning and all I'll start with what happened .. Have been running car complete stock for about a yr, decided to start modding, and was using a STP intake... (i know its useless, will get back to that later) ... bought a AccessportV3 last month, was running the Stage1 93 OTS map, with the intake, and was running fine, car randomly starting misfiring cylinder 2... uninstalled AP... still misfiring, took to dealer, they switched coils between 2 cylinders, no issues found, car running fine again... anyway, took the intake off, back to stock intake now.. flashed to Stage1 93 OTS and thats how care is right now.... before with intake was pretty often getting -2 feedback knock (sometimes jumped to -8) and random -2.45 fine knock lean, along with pretty consistent a/f learning 1 between 0 and -5 ... example in log7.... after switching to stock intake im still getting some random -2 feedback knock but no fine knock lean yet, and a/f learning 1 is between 0 and 6 or so... example in log4.... anyway.. should i be worried about the -2 feedback knock jumps? also the a/f learning 1 being positive is better than negative right? ideally i want to get a dp and go stage2 but dont have the funds just yet UPDATE 1: ok, so i got alot done with care over past few weeks... list.. -rotors and pad replaced -white 20mm adjustable rsb with KB endlinks -replaced front endlinks with moogs -PS fluid flush -tranny flush -avo panel filter I did find and fix a few issues also -The underbody cover was fixed up, not really loose anymore -Guess when i bought car it already had an uppipe done, was which shitty and leaking....replaced with new invidia; leak gone -Was a vacuum leak I guess, saw a hose fell off on a T fitting infront of intake manifold Am still getting some knock -2 and at once it went to -12, blah... this is happening really at 2300rpm or lower, above that i havent seen any knock yet am getting a rough idle sometimes and a/f learning 1 goes up to +9 - +11~, but once give some gas it drops lower is it maybe just a bad map? any furthur ideas to check into?datalog7.csvdatalog4.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpydingo Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Can you post up a LV as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discojon Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 The good thing about Subaru's is they have a very aggressive Knock Control Strategy built in. The bad thing is that continued Knock events will wear prematurely on the engine. A Stage 1 car should not be having knock issues unless there is a mechanical problem or a really bad tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiby Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Can you post up a LV as well. posting from work right now but will try to figure out how to do this and post asap... LV = Learning View i'm assuming... will update also, drove car to work today.. got some random -1.45 fine knock lean jumps and at one point up to -10 feedback knock along with random -2 jumps going to try switching to stage1 91 OTS map on drive home and see if any better / worse numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discojon Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 You have something afoul mechanically for that to be occurring. Possibly dying fuel pump, or fouled injector (s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiby Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 You have something afoul mechanically for that to be occurring. Possibly dying fuel pump, or fouled injector (s) is there any way to test or narrow this down and see if that is the case.. without replacing parts yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiby Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 i sadly could not figure out how to do learning view, i installed accesstuner race and all and connected while car running but... i dno i actually did 3 logs if anyone cares to check, they are as described in filename 1) driving to work on and off highway a bit.. random -8 knock and some -fine knock lean, this was with 93 OTS stage 1 2) driving home form work, changed to a OTS 91 stage 1 map to see if any better, no better, worse if anything i guess... did somewhat of a pull near end of log 3) logged after log 2, driving on highway and on street.. was sometimes getting -7 fine knock lean and still some random -2 feedback knock, this was also with OTS 91 stage 1 map DAM aldo dropped to 0.75 at one point I actually uninstalled acessport and back at stock map because of 3rd log and getting the -7 fine knock lean and the DAM dropping... honestly im sure i know what alot of people would answer and that is to go to a pro tuner but am trying to see if i can do anything besides that option just yet.. i mean the OTS maps arent the greatest but there should really be that negative knock right?1 drive to work 93.csv2 leaving work and pull 91.csv3 hw and street work 91 origional.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discojon Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 You shouldn't need a pro tuner for a stock car. Learning view is a stand alone program not incorporated into anything (not counting LTV in RR). Google learning view subaru and it should come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serx7 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 i sadly could not figure out how to do learning view, i installed accesstuner race and all and connected while car running but... i dno i actually did 3 logs if anyone cares to check, they are as described in filename 1) driving to work on and off highway a bit.. random -8 knock and some -fine knock lean, this was with 93 OTS stage 1 2) driving home form work, changed to a OTS 91 stage 1 map to see if any better, no better, worse if anything i guess... did somewhat of a pull near end of log 3) logged after log 2, driving on highway and on street.. was sometimes getting -7 fine knock lean and still some random -2 feedback knock, this was also with OTS 91 stage 1 map DAM aldo dropped to 0.75 at one point I actually uninstalled acessport and back at stock map because of 3rd log and getting the -7 fine knock lean and the DAM dropping... honestly im sure i know what alot of people would answer and that is to go to a pro tuner but am trying to see if i can do anything besides that option just yet.. i mean the OTS maps arent the greatest but there should really be that negative knock right? It looks like most of your FLKC and FBKC are occuring at relatively low load (< 1 g/sec) and low RPM (2k or below). The pull you did at the end of one of those logs is clear starting at similar RPM (< 2k) w/ load that's higher than where you usually see KC. Perhaps you have something rattling under the hood, I'd recommend checking into that first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiby Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 It looks like most of your FLKC and FBKC are occuring at relatively low load (< 1 g/sec) and low RPM (2k or below). The pull you did at the end of one of those logs is clear starting at similar RPM (< 2k) w/ load that's higher than where you usually see KC. Perhaps you have something rattling under the hood, I'd recommend checking into that first. I did take a look and see that the underbody cover? (not sure what exact name is but the plastic coving underneath engine) is loose, I guess the head of a bolt that holds it broke it seems, going to find a way to extract the remaining thread and bolt it back on.. then reinstall AP and test again i guess, theat could explain some of the FBKC i would assume? The FLKC is when timing is being pulled, right? So loose underbody cover would not cause that, or am I wrong in saying that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serx7 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 I did take a look and see that the underbody cover? (not sure what exact name is but the plastic coving underneath engine) is loose, I guess the head of a bolt that holds it broke it seems, going to find a way to extract the remaining thread and bolt it back on.. then reinstall AP and test again i guess, theat could explain some of the FBKC i would assume? The FLKC is when timing is being pulled, right? So loose underbody cover would not cause that, or am I wrong in saying that? I wouldn't think that a loose underbody cover would trigger the knock sensor, but I also didn't think suspension noise could trigger it and someone here on the forums corrected me and indicated that in his testing noisy suspension (usually end links, I think he said) had been shown to cause false knock, so what do I know... You can fix up that underbody cover, reset the ECU and then just drive while logging to see if the logs clear up. FLKC is a learned timing correction. Over time the ECU will experiment w/ adding small amts of the pulled timing back in and checking to see if it still hears noise. If noise isn't heard over time, the ECU will gradually restore the learned timing correction and FLKC in that RPM/load range will stop appearing in the logs. FBKC is an instaneous timing correction. It's possible to see FBKC at a certain RPM/load in the log, and not see it elsewhere in the log at the same RPM/load. Both FBKC and FLKC pull timing. If you want more technical details, I'd suggest giving the following Romraider post a read. http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic1840.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiby Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 updated main post with furthur information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawkins20 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 With the high amount of timing up to -7 FLKC being pulled suddenly at low load and low RPM I would be suspicious of some sort of false knock here. I know cobbs recommendation for a quick and dirty way to test for this on the street is to get some race gas (100 octane unleaded gas like sunoco GT260 if available) and mix a few gallons in with a half a tank or less of your normal fuel. This will usually bring the octane up to 95 or so, and if the knock in that area persists then you probably have some sort of false knock. Granted the fals knock can still be a mechanical issue, like a cracked ringland, but this test can help to rule out a tune issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiby Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 attached a learning view, this is running stock map and avo panel filter if i researched correctly car is running a bit lean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkee87 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'd check that the turbo heatshield is nice and tight, might be loose somewhere after your uppipe install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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