taylormac1993 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 My friend and I recently got done with his VW build, so I have a little extra time on my hands now. I'm thinking about going to a scrap yard to get an EJ25D or EJ251 and build it up. How hard would it be to do an all-motor NA build on these that crack 200 hp and have good reliability? I know I'm asking a lot, but I want something to strive for. I read the sticky and apparently you can bolt any EJ motor to any EJ tranny and it'll drop into any second gen built for an EJ. Is this true? The subframe in my Legacy Outback will handle any EJ motor? I heard from someone that you can bore and sleeve these motors to accommodate certain kinds of STI pistons. Are the STI pistons forged? Is it worth it? Lastly, can someone direct me to a build thread where someone did this? I can't seem to find any. =/ Thanks guys! Hopefully I'll be posting a build thread when I get enough money for the motor. EDIT: Also, what piggyback would be best on this ECU? Thank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 You won't want to use a 25D short block if you want any reliability. Use a 1999 251 short block and rebuild it completely. Fresh bearings, stronger rods, and forged pistons are a good combination. Cracking 200 CHP/TQ will require higher compression, upgraded or reground cams, and maybe some head/TB porting, etc... You'll want to upgrade the valve springs and retainers to avoid any valve float. USDM STi pistons are NOT forged. Also, creating a floating wrist pin or buying a set of rods that is already designed with a floating wrist pin will allow the motor to rev much smoother and quicker, and add reliability. So... With the following combination you are looking at an 11.01:1 compression build (Yes, I did the math) which can be run on the stock ECU. 99 251 short block - I've got one you can rebuild if you're interested.. $75 plus shipping 99 ACL race main//rod bearings Main - http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product1931.html Rod - http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product1930.html (With my motor, the crank will need to be machined and oversize bearings used. ACL has .025, .25, .50 sizes) 99 OE length performance rods. - I have not found out if the 99 2.5 uses 131.25 mm or 131.6 mm length rods, yet. Logic makes me think the 131.6 mm rods. I need to look at part numbers... 99 forged pistons (251 style valve reliefs and 10cc volume) - I still haven't figured out this crap.... 96-99 25D Cometic 0.027" head gaskets - $110 - http://www.shopengineparts.com/parts.aspx?eid=597&cid=24&type=engine&vtype=Import+Auto&make=Subaru&model=EJ25D+96-99 97-99 25D heads and intake (port match intake runners) 96-99 25D Delta camshaft regrinds (more aggressive grinds will require thicker valve shims) 96-99 25D Ferra valvetrain components (springs, retainers, valves) - $1,250 Everything ordered for the lower end has to be specific to the MY99 motor. The list I made is what I would use/do personally, and you'll probably make more than 200 CHP/TQ easily and without any problems. I will give you much more specific details later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 You won't want to use a 25D short block if you want any reliability. Use a 1999 251 short block and rebuild it completely. Fresh bearings, stronger rods, and forged pistons are a good combination. Cracking 200 CHP/TQ will require higher compression, upgraded or reground cams, and maybe some head/TB porting, etc... You'll want to upgrade the valve springs and retainers to avoid any valve float. USDM STi pistons are NOT forged. Also, creating a floating wrist pin or buying a set of rods that is already designed with a floating wrist pin will allow the motor to rev much smoother and quicker, and add reliability. So... With the following combination you are looking at an 11.01:1 compression build (Yes, I did the math) which can be run on the stock ECU. 99 251 short block - I've got one you can rebuild if you're interested.. $75 plus shipping 99 ACL race main//rod bearings Main - http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product1931.html Rod - http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product1930.html (With my motor, the crank will need to be machined and oversize bearings used. ACL has .025, .25, .50 sizes) King also makes bearings, I have a set of stock size ones for sale 99 OE length performance rods. - I have not found out if the 99 2.5 uses 131.25 mm or 131.6 mm length rods, yet. Logic makes me think the 131.6 mm rods. I need to look at part numbers... They use the longer 131.6mm rods. I have a set of Scat H beams in this length for sale also. 99 forged pistons (251 style valve reliefs and 10cc volume) - I still haven't figured out this crap.... JE makes a 11.5:1 piston that you could use with a stock sized headgasket and net a good compression ratio http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Sport-Compact/Subaru/ej25.aspx 96-99 25D Cometic 0.027" head gaskets - $110 - http://www.shopengineparts.com/parts.aspx?eid=597&cid=24&type=engine&vtype=Import+Auto&make=Subaru&model=EJ25D+96-99 97-99 25D heads and intake (port match intake runners) 96-99 25D Delta camshaft regrinds (more aggressive grinds will require thicker valve shims) 96-99 25D Ferra valvetrain components (springs, retainers, valves) - $1,250 EJ257 valve train parts will fit also, opens up many more options, although Ferra is top of the line and a great product Everything ordered for the lower end has to be specific to the MY99 motor. The list I made is what I would use/do personally, and you'll probably make more than 200 CHP/TQ easily and without any problems. I will give you much more specific details later on. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatisit Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 you should build a ez30r h6. more hp/tq stock then the ej25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormac1993 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 You won't want to use a 25D short block if you want any reliability. Use a 1999 251 short block and rebuild it completely. Fresh bearings, stronger rods, and forged pistons are a good combination. Cracking 200 CHP/TQ will require higher compression, upgraded or reground cams, and maybe some head/TB porting, etc... You'll want to upgrade the valve springs and retainers to avoid any valve float. USDM STi pistons are NOT forged. Also, creating a floating wrist pin or buying a set of rods that is already designed with a floating wrist pin will allow the motor to rev much smoother and quicker, and add reliability. So... With the following combination you are looking at an 11.01:1 compression build (Yes, I did the math) which can be run on the stock ECU. 99 251 short block - I've got one you can rebuild if you're interested.. $75 plus shipping 99 ACL race main//rod bearings Main - http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product1931.html Rod - http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product1930.html (With my motor, the crank will need to be machined and oversize bearings used. ACL has .025, .25, .50 sizes) 99 OE length performance rods. - I have not found out if the 99 2.5 uses 131.25 mm or 131.6 mm length rods, yet. Logic makes me think the 131.6 mm rods. I need to look at part numbers... 99 forged pistons (251 style valve reliefs and 10cc volume) - I still haven't figured out this crap.... 96-99 25D Cometic 0.027" head gaskets - $110 - http://www.shopengineparts.com/parts.aspx?eid=597&cid=24&type=engine&vtype=Import+Auto&make=Subaru&model=EJ25D+96-99 97-99 25D heads and intake (port match intake runners) 96-99 25D Delta camshaft regrinds (more aggressive grinds will require thicker valve shims) 96-99 25D Ferra valvetrain components (springs, retainers, valves) - $1,250 Everything ordered for the lower end has to be specific to the MY99 motor. The list I made is what I would use/do personally, and you'll probably make more than 200 CHP/TQ easily and without any problems. I will give you much more specific details later on. You guys are awesome. I'll look more into it this weekend. Would anyone happen to know what the EJ251 goes in stock? I know it's on Wikipedia but it's not too reliable. I'm taking a junkyard trip tomorrow so I'll look for something there. you should build a ez30r h6. more hp/tq stock then the ej25 If you can find me one for round 300 shipped to my front door! haha. What do those come in stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 The EJ251/3 are the same block and they came in the 00-04 legacy and 99-01 rs25. I believe some foresters have them also. Look at the plate on the driver strut tower, the engine code will be EJ251... or EJ253... -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Again, I've got a short block you can have for a low low price! Shipping won't be bad either.... I work for UPS. Sorry, I really need to whore my parts out so I can dump this car in a few weeks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooln30 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 For all of the money you'd spend on "trying" to get 200hp out of a ej25 you could go bad ass and find yourself a FA20. They're 200 out the box and can take a bolt on turbo kit and handle 300 w/o cracking open the engine. I've been doing a lot of research on the FA 20's and these engines are light years a head of any EJ engine. I wanted to do a jdm v7 STI swap and even thought about a hybrid turbo swap but once I found out how much better engineered these motors are I am starting to really like these FA's. I could be the first FA second gen Legacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 For all of the money you'd spend on "trying" to get 200hp out of a ej25 you could go bad ass and find yourself a FA20. They're 200 out the box and can take a bolt on turbo kit and handle 300 w/o cracking open the engine. I've been doing a lot of research on the FA 20's and these engines are light years a head of any EJ engine. I wanted to do a jdm v7 STI swap and even thought about a hybrid turbo swap but once I found out how much better engineered these motors are I am starting to really like these FA's. I could be the first FA second gen Legacy? Well, you'd most likely have to fabricate engine mounts, driveshaft, customize various hardware & such but those engines are pretty small & have AWD systems. So you'd have to be the first to swap everything over (grab the Forester's DIT & have fun). You could be the guy who makes FB hybrids too (FB20 head on FB25 block). Honestly, I kinda hate the TQ curve on the BRZ engine. It reminds me of a Honda K20. I think the FB's power curve is a little better. What I believe the FA has going REALLY strong for it is that it has the exact same dual exhaust ports on the cylinder heads as the EJ20 does & that opens up some potentially limitless possibilities for exhaust modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 There's a lot more money involved than just buying any of the new 2.0 long blocks. If it wasn't a several thousand dollar excursion, I'd be all over it for the 96 LGT. But... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLP-HCcX9as]The 450 HP Crawford Performance Turbo BRZ - /TUNED - YouTube[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKXzDhGhoEg]Crawford Performance Turbo BRZ! Balance Meets Power - Ignition Episode 71 - YouTube[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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