06Obsidian3.0RB

Update after abot 50 km driving the rear struts have firmed up and the car is even more balanced.

It also looks like it has levelled out and is closer to a stock height front and rear. Will need to measure and confirm. A little surprised by this.

On 6/8/2024 at 12:21 PM, MoleMan said:

Why did you not choose the OEM Billsteins?  I hate KYB with a passion. Just cheap junk TBH.  I get you already have them in the car.  But I was forced to buy KYB during Covid due a supply shortage on my daily. I regret they decision daily but I needed something fast at that time.

Maybe I missed something that said why you did not go with the Billsteins. But those are the better setup.

Yes you missed a lot here.

I didn't use the front excel g struts, I used KYB'S SR Premium and King springs. 

If I had of use Excel g and stock soft springs I doubt I would have been happy either.

The KYB SR Premium is a high end variable damping strut and is the KYB Billstein replacement. I have had the stock bilsteins but rate these SR Premiums better on variable and sometimes poor surface.

Yeah I could only get Excel G rears but they are fine. Maybe one day will swap in SR's if I can get them.

And also a set of Bilsteins would have been over $2000. Probably near $2,500 all said and done. And that just the struts. No springs etc.

For that money a set of Cusco street spec coilovers is the obvious winner.

So Bilstein was never in the running.

The question was whether to stick with stock struts like I did or go to HSD Dualtech coilovers.

All in I was $1050 into this all 4 corners with everything including the SR Premium front struts, springs and the front strut mounts. 

Like I said, I'm very happy with how this performs.

Well last weekend I completed the install of the new rear kyb excel g shocks and king springs.

I also added a 20 mm Whiteline RSB and endlinks, and rebuilt the brakes with new lines, rotors pads and painted calipers.

The rear struts were also completely blown out.

The car handles great and has smoothed out the front end.

The rear is not as stiff as the front only going to a 6kg springs its not a massive jump over stock.

It rides completely fine but trying the 00 to 04 shocks would have been interesting and probably still tolerable for street driving if they are stiffer.

Of course the rear swaybar has made a tremendous difference to cornering. Once you have turned in it rotates on a dime. Very impressive and convinced me to order a set of swaybars for my car.

I have not measured ride height but the front is not a drastic drop and maybe 10 to 20 mm max. The rear springs are a stock height part but with the 18's and wheel spaces the stance is fine and IMHO better looking than the previous saggy stock springs. 

For a street car which I dream about taking in some entry level tarmac rallies or hillclimbs for fun this set up is about perfect. 

The front springs and struts are as stiff as I would want on the road and while the rear could tolerate a bit more stiffness the combo rides and handles excellently and is a real pleasure to drive again.

There is absolutely no increased nvh and only noticeable  (to me my wife hasn't noticed) increased harshness in front due to stiffer springs but it's not bad.

Overall I exceeded my objective of rebuilding with stock like ride but with more sporty and dynamic handling. 

I have also undertaken this work with a full brake overhaul which has included new STi Brembo reproduction front calipers (stock were leaking), lines and DBA rotors with super dot 4 fluid.

And of course the previously mentioned Superpro front LCA's.

I have Goodyear Super Sport 225's on the stock SPEC B rims. These are a lovely tyre.

Only extra parts I will add is a Cusco MC brace and I have ordered the correct part # Cusco 23 mm front sway bar for the EZ30 engine from BlackHawk Japan. It doesn’t really need it but I can feel more front turn in would be nice and the price delivered was right.

I am very pleased with how the project has turned out. I have exceeded my expectations and enhanced the sweet driving dynamics of this car while not sacrificing its comfort or usefulness and have no concerns driving on bad, pot-holed roads.

As a final mention, I also installed the transgo shift kit and fully flushed with valvoline max life the 5eat transmission. This has radically altered the transmission and transformed it into the transmission the EZ 30 deserves. Just be warned recalibration of the transmission will take a while.

On 3/7/2024 at 4:40 AM, KZJonny said:

Looking nice!

Bummer they’re not carried here, but I suppose the extra cost of Bilsteins would be less than sourcing those.

For example, for the SR Ultra, This is the cheapest option plus coupon but they only just got in front left, no front right yet. Having trouble keeping in stock.

Try this link if it works for you? They are already cheapest source I have found and there's currently a 15% coupon. $250 AUD but I don't know if they will ship to you. Worth a try.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/166629094636?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0&ssspo=FLSYwsE3RgS&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=tOGqKuCCRlO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

FYI $250 AUD is $150 USD.

On 3/7/2024 at 4:40 AM, KZJonny said:

Looking nice!

Bummer they’re not carried here, but I suppose the extra cost of Bilsteins would be less than sourcing those.

For me they were literally half the price of bilstein. $500 AUD vs $1000 just for the fronts struts alone.  That's for b6's. B4's were about the same.

I definitely rate them on the same level as the b6, possibly better in some situations like poor road surfaces.

Maybe try a jdm parts importer? Same guys who bring in the spec b parts etc. I have seen salvaged full sets available in Japan. 

Or next time you travel across the Pacific or Atlantic pick up a set because they are available literally everywhere except the America's.

Anyway bilstein are fantastic also. I'm just happy I was able to get results which exceeded my expectations for a reasonable price.

Another option you probably cant get is the KYB SR Ultra for the GD wrx. Go check those out. Trust me you will be drooling. They were out of stock here which is a good indicator where bilstein and koni options are both stocked.

Anyway they are excellent and deliver as promised. 

They are comfortable but also firm and sporty. They are not harsh or jarring. 

On poor road surfaces they are noticeably firm but still smooth.

Handling is excellent and reaction to sudden sharp turns is excellent and turn in is improved.

 I expect it to improve even more once I do the rears with a rsb. One of the rears has completely dropped its guts now.

They reduce braking distances noticeably.

Unexpectedly suspension travel is much reduced over speed bumps but still comfortable. This may also be in combination with the king springs. This is good because these cars do not have a lot of suspension travel and bottoming out on unexpected potholes has always been an issue.

These struts are perfect in everyway and a credit to the KYB Japanese Engineers. 

They deliver exceptional handling, road control and braking while still not sacrificing acceptable ride comfort on poor surfaces.

I will buy these again, they are fantastic. 

I took it on a test drive last night.

Was definitely firm to stiff but not hard or jarring. 

Just normal driving was smooth as promised and handled bumps and speed bumps well with little suspension travel.

Braking distance was shortened as promised. Pulled up last 10 -20 m in half the distance expected. 

So say last 20 m pulled up surprisingly shorter at say 10 m.

I expect them to soften a little but basically they deliver as promised. 

In my view they are my preference to bilsteins because they lack the harshness I experienced on normal driving surfaces. But that's just comparing to used spec b bilsteins.

Struts together and installed.

The power steering recently leaked out completely through a leaky rack.

I refilled with a local premium brand transmission fluid called penrite.

It hasn't leaked since and the reservoir is still full. >6 months later.

My assumption is the penrite contains seal conditioner additives.

Based on this experience I recommend others try as a first step fluid replacement with a premium product containing seal conditioning agents.

Happy to see made in Japan 

Well we drove it to the beach yesterday and it was obvious the current struts are rapidly deteriorating.

My wife said she tried to take it on the Freeway during the week and had to turn back because it was unstable. 

So time to stop procrastinating.

I got a great deal on the front New SR Special so decided to try these out on the front coupled with the rear Excel G's.

Honestly, from what I read the front Excel G would have been perfect with the king springs especially with 15-20% extra damping.

But I decided on the SR's because they give the performance but also stock like ride at normal driving conditions. And another feature which was common in all the literature was anti dive under braking reducing braking distance, especially important for a car my wife drives.

All in they cost 70% more than the Excel G's.

I will try to remember to report back with results. 

Thais get the New SR Premium struts as well.

Link to promotion video. Just use setting to turn on auto generated subtitles. 

Interesting because he runs through the range and there is an oe replacement, then the excel g which he says is 20% stiffer.

Gen 3 Liberty 

Here's the Au KYB range for 2006 Liberty (Legacy)

Here's the Au KYB range for 2004 Imprezza.

2 hours ago, KZJonny said:

Also, not available in Northa America it seems. I wonder what other market they may be available to? Shipping from Aus for something of that size and wieght would totally eat up the cost savings of getting something them vs. the Bilsteins which I can get shipped for next to nothing.

Sort of a shame there, but definitely interesting to see they KYB makes them.

4 minutes ago, KZJonny said:

I think if I was going to spend money on shipping things from Japan, I’d go all in and risk a set of Ohlins coilovers or the like… hah!

But yeah. Despite the size of NA as a market there is still quite a bit we do not get included in, sales-wise.

 

As far as GD stuff fitting, you’ll have read the same things I have. But GT too hats always sounds like the thing you’d need. Some struts require Spec B top hats, but I don’t know the difference in fitment. 

I've noticed it with many things such as tyres.

NA doesn't get many of the UUHP tyres, gets market specific models and if the model is still selling well continued after its globally replaced.

NA is so large it's an independent market, so if a product line is not adopted, it's almost certainly a decision made in a US boardroom.

What's the interchangeability with GD WRX front struts?

Just use Legacy springs and top hats?

I think you can get JDM takeouts probably through the same pathway as the JDM Bilsteins.

From what I can tell they are available in Japan, Philippines, Vietnam, probably just most east Asia, Australia and Oceania really. UK, Europe...

I don't know why you don't get them. Probably a decision by KYB US.

I'm surprised we get them. Probably because we're part of the regional distribution network. Oh that's right we're part of a trading block with above countries. 

Probably the best promotional movie I found was from Vietnam. In my experience those people are happy to pay for something if it's worthwhile.

5 hours ago, KZJonny said:

Interesting that there are different struts/market. Tho maybe not surprising as North America generally seems to buy cars that have a softer, (less good), driving manner that the rest of the world. Thanks oversized American asses for the 2.5L tho, I suppose. For those of us who like lots of torque from more swept volume, it's a good thing.

 

Any case, there is probably more to it, but waaay back when I swapped to the Gen 3 struts, the logic was simply that the 3rd Gen car was heavier than the 4th gen, so it was assumed that there would be a little more aggressive valving in the struts to make up for it, all other things being roughly equal. I did not find it was a night and day difference, but I needed new struts in any case and didn't see the harm in testing the theory. The car definitely rides better with a lot of load in it, but I also did a near total bushing replacement throughout, so it's hard to say which exact one thing was the most responsible for improving the ride. I think the trailing arm bushings + overload springs probably were the biggest contributors to the improved ride quality.

 

Also very interesting about those SR Specials. If they really do match the performance of the stock Spec B Bilsteins, that would be a welcome new product for those of us with ageing out struts who can no longer justify the cost of a new set of Bilsteins....

Yes I find it interesting that KYB will supply one part number to cover an entire range over the entire model life cycle,  and of course the difference in weights and suspension specifications. But have in this case opted for different part numbers for different markets.

As you say us spec is probably softer. Or it's a different mfg plant.

Rears are same pn so I was incorrect there.

Interestingly the 'New Sr Specials' are not actually new, they are about 10 years old. 'New' is part of the product name.

What I like about them is they have adaptive valving. In my view this addresses my biggest gripe with otherwise amazing struts: Harshness on poor road surfaces.

At 2 times the cost of the excel g's they are a premium product no doubt but they seem to offer what to me is an almost irresistible option: obtain the sporty driving dynamics while not compromising on ride comfort especially on poor surfaces. 

The GD WRX versions are actually a cool gold painted inverted monoshock. Still with the adaptive valving.

As suggested I checked part numbers.

Gen 3 excel g is same Aus and US.

Gen 4 excel g is different Aus and US.

Gen 4 excel g pn is actually same Aus and UK.

Therefore as suggested there is no way to verify USDM experience is transferable. 

I have ordered rear excel g because there is simply no other option except koni or bilstein at 4 times the cost.

However I checked KYB Aus website. 

They list some interesting front options. 

New SR Special as Spec B and STi replacement.  And SR Ultra for GD WRX.

Pricing of above is somewhere between excel g and koni inserts. And much less tha bilstein b6.

Also the damping technology is very appealing.

Need struts.

Kyb gen 3 or gen 4?

Of front gen 3. Rear gen 4?

Just pulled the trigger on the front springs. $155 AUD shipped.

May need a spacer to raise to stock.

18 hours ago, KZJonny said:

Nothing really as far as that goes. Not too many people I know on King Springs here. Just too much local competition for them to make sense.

I have something like what you're talking about in my OBW, Rallitek Overload springs on Gen 3 KYB struts, which I like for the intented purpose, which is that I tow stuff with the OB and don't want it to droop much when I do. (I killed a set of tires because the rear toe on my car got so bad when loaded down with lots of weight in the trunk.)

I don't think you'd be too impressed with that as a combination unless you never take the car out for spirited driving. I also have no idea if the Gen 3 struts for the GTs were any different than normal. At least in our market, Gen 3 GTs were just a regular Subaru with larger brakes, no turbo, no extra fun.

Your market might be different, but this is largely a USDM forum, so anything AUDM for example isn't so much on the radar here.

We got the turbo, h6, sti here. But KYB same pn BOTH US Au.

I read somewhere USDM gt got same struts, just 25% stiffer springs. 

Word is gen 3 front struts are significantly stiffer than gen 4.

Are gen 3 rear struts stiffer than gen 4?

14 hours ago, Kojak said:

+1 for rsb and brackets. Fantastic return on investment in terms of something you can noticeably feel improvement. I’m on jdm bilsteins and pinks, like the look and feel of lower than stock but it’s getting old. The suspension and user. Looking at Kings myself, at least in the rear to keep the wagon from sagging while loaded. Anything you save on coilovers can be thrown at the Whiteline catalog to refresh bushings and accompanying suspension bits. Especially if you do happen to drop from stock. Haven’t looked for it in a while, but user Uncle Mat had an incredible in-depth comparison of suspension set-ups stickied on the old forum. If you find that there’s more info/analysis than any one owner/driver can impart. Good luck and happy motoring.  

Yeah I don't want lowered suspension on these cars. More travel means more articulation when you hit an unexpected tree root in the apex.

Kings are made 10 min from my house on the Gold Coast by Australian workers. 

Actually have an impressive range for our cars.

I have read so many posts on this forum last 72 hours but did not find this one by Uncle Mat. If you can find it I would appreciate it.

Whiteline/superpro/nolathane are all the same company, just different ranges. HQ 60 min from my house.