Point37

either way the new battery has been working fine...

just put another quart of 0w-20 in today right around 250 miles...i think i have 1 or 2 quarts left to finish before my oil change when i plan to up the oil weight...i wish i remembered when this oil consumption issue began with my car...my mother has a 2011 outback with a 2.5 and i am not aware of any oil consumption issues...at the same time she has less mileage, uses non-synthetic oil and goes about 4k miles between oil changes...if i try 10w-40 and it doesn't slow the consumption do i try 20w-50 or do i try non-synthetic next?

15 hours ago, silverton said:

According to the service manual, that is the battery for the 3.6L model, interesting!

11 hours ago, ammcinnis said:

If I remember correctly, by MY 2017 the higher-capacity battery was being installed at the factory in both 3.6 and 2.5 models of Legacy and Outback.

that's strange...i wonder why there is a discrepancy between the owners manual and the service manual...maybe it has something to do with where the cars were going?...cold climate dealers got the big batteries?

13 hours ago, silverton said:

According to the manual the battery spec is 356CCA 48AH. 48AH works out to about 115 reserve capacity.

thanks!

7 hours ago, ammcinnis said:

Who woulda' thought?

the only thing the owners manual says on page 12-9 in the electrical specs is "battery type and capacity (5HR) 75D23R (12V-52AH)"...nothing else...haven't had time to download the service manual which is why i asked the question

https://cdn.subarunet.com/stis/doc/ownerManual/MSA5M1304BSTIS.pdf

1 hour ago, silverton said:

I meant the service manual, but that spec may be in the owners manual as well.  Yesterday a customer called asking what the little car going uphill meant..... that's a RTFM moment.

it's not...i searched the whole owners manual pdf while at work...no access to download the service manual at work

On 3/31/2023 at 5:18 PM, ammcinnis said:

A battery's BCI Group number specifies its external physical dimensions and terminal configuration ... nothing more. The battery manufacturer is free to select the battery's internals as they choose, perhaps to optimize for one parameter over others. There's a reason that there is such a range of prices from one battery to another, even within the same Group number.

This isn't anything new; it's always been this way. One manufacturer may choose to optimize for high CA/CCA, another for RC/VA capacity, another for reliability and longevity, another for shock/vibration tolerance, another for low manufacturing cost, etc.

On 3/31/2023 at 6:45 PM, silverton said:

I had meant to say that your battery tester is highly optimistic.  That was not a good battery in my eyes. while the voltage was okay, the CCA was too low.  As it was already said, the battery group is exterior size and post configuration.  As long as you get one with a minimum of 550cca, you should be okay.  stay away from super starts; they super suck.

thanks fellas...anyone know the OEM battery specs?

battery failed today...planning to get a new one today or tomorrow...currently have a Duralast Gold 25-DLG with 800 CA and 640 CCA...a new 25-DLG at autozone has 685 CA and 550 CCA...what's going on with the same model battery having weaker specs?

1 hour ago, silverton said:

 

I think maybe because they're both low oil lights, one is for level, the other for pressure.

 

I know you said the battery is dead but, curious for an update on consumption after pcv valve replacement.

Gotcha

low oil light popped on again today…~250 miles…so pcv was no help…I used another quart of 0w-20 today so I have 3 quarts left…probably just going to pass my oil change interval by a ~800 miles to use all the 0w-20 up and then the next oil change will be all 10w-40

tested battery and checked for parasitic draw…stopping here for the night…got a 50mA parasitic draw on the battery which I think is normal from everything I’ve read…put it on a trickle charger overnight just in case…may start pulling fuses and testing on the weekend or when I have more time or may just replace the battery

5 hours ago, ammcinnis said:

(Hits head.)

Not sure what’s wrong with that…only the yellow light is turning on…not the red…I know there are 2 oil lights…they all light up every time I start the car so I don’t know how you can’t know that there aren’t 2 of them

5 hours ago, m sprank said:

My 03 Forester and 4th gen LGTs have only 1 light.  Low oil pressure. 

 

Sounds like your battery.  Winter killed it.

That’s what I’m guessing but the battery good in December…I will recheck it tonight with my tester…if it still tests good…I’m going to mess around on YouTube and see if I can figure out if there is a parasitic draw with my multimeter 

oil pressure light is red...low oil light is orange/yellow and has the waves under the oil can in the symbol...mine is the low oil light

that's exactly what i do...every other car i've owned i've never had oil consumption issues or had to even check the oil between changes...this issue will factor heavily into my choice for my next car...i want an outback (i really want a hybrid outback) but this issue has me leaning away from subaru towards toyota, honda or mazda since i've had good luck with these brands into high mileage...at the momeny i'm just trying to get by...not trying to sink too much time and money into it...i drive 86 miles a day...it's downing ~1 quart every 250 miles (hopefully a little less now that the PCV valve is changed)...there's still ~4 quarts in there...i don't feel like checking my oil every couple days to top it off...i'll just add it when the light comes on and if it dies, it dies...cause everything about this car is getting to the point where it's annoying me

the new development this monday morning is that it wouldn't start...last time i drove it was saturday morning...my wife had already left this morning so i tried to use my jumper box...not enough juice left in the car battery to jump it...had my bro in law come by with his car to jump it and it was not easy to jump so i'm thinking the battery was very drained...the last time i replaced the battery was 3/3/18 at ~121k miles so it's probably due...last time i tested it, it tested ok...maybe i have a parasitic draw or maybe the battery is toast...hopefully it's the battery

my jumper box...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015TKUPIC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

my battery tester...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z67MMGC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

12/6/22 battery test

7 hours ago, silverton said:

7500 miles is too long of an OCI buddy, switch that up to 3000-4000!  hopefully the pcv valve takes care of your oil consumption, from what you have mentioned about it, it does sound failed.

Here's what our shops synthetic 5w30 looks like after 1000 miles. AFAIK black oil is holding contaminants or has been heat cycled excessively. Have you sent a used oil sample to blackstone for an analysis? I'd like to see what they've said about it!

Here is what my thid gens oil looks like after 1,000 miles on whatever is delivered to our shop, it's either a semi or full synthetic 5w30.

 

Here's my 3.6R, on ~11 degree incline... bone DRY buddy...truly showing the importance you need to be on a flat surface, i like gas stations if you don't have access to a shop. I was a little bored before needing to leave for work and needed to check my third gens oil anyway... the girlfriend drives it and she's known to drive things straight in to the ground.

6 hours ago, BoozeRS05 said:

There’s no way to make a visual determination of the oil’s lifespan as far as I know. “Looks dark” means very little in my opinion. I absolutely agree 7500 miles is too long unless you have a UOA saying otherwise. 

thanks fellas...with the rate it's consuming, i'm adding oil quite frequently so i'm not too worried about the interval...i think the manual says 7500 miles as well which is what i've been doing since i got it...i have a garage with a flat floor where i typically check the oil...with 216k on it i'm not going to sink any more money into it if i don't have to as i have spent quite a bit this year with the catalytic converter replacement, struts/springs, 2 new tires, alignment, whitelines, PCV valve...so i'll pass on an oil analysis...probably going to just adjust oil weight, install whitelines and realign and run it till it dies or i have to fix something big where it's not worth it...the oil consumption, bluetooth skipping, having to choose the bluetooth source each time i get in the car, camber/tire wear issues, etc. are getting pretty annoying at this point but i'll deal with them for now

replaced the PCV valve and hose this morning...the old one had oil in it which sounds like it was stuck open...the car has 4 of the symptoms...hopefully it helps...i will be taking the car to a meeting today so i'll find out how it runs and report back...

https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/How-to-do-a-PCV-valve-test

Symptoms of a Stuck Open PCV Valve

If the PCV valve gets stuck open, or a system hose gets disconnected or ruptured—producing a vacuum leak—you'll notice one or more of these symptoms.

Engine misfires at idle

Lean air-fuel mixture

Presence of engine oil in PCV valve or hose

Increased oil consumption

Hard engine start

Rough engine idle

Possibly black smoke

Oil fouled spark plugs

4 hours ago, silverton said:

gdamn that is BLACK

3 hours ago, NORULZleggy said:

Black does not mean the oil needs to be changed. Amsoil will turn black and still protect for a long time. My 2013 does this after 5k miles and the engine runs very smooth. Also you need to let the car sit overnight and then check the oil on a flat surface.  You not getting a good reading. 

the lighting isn't great in my garage and it was late in the day but i'm nearing a 7500 mile oil change so it's not going to look great anyway...i realize i'm supposed to wait till it cools and the oil drains back down but i don't have that luxury when i'm on the road and the light turns on, so i just dump a quart in...plus it drops so fast that i'm not sure it matters unless i overfill...also according to the info below i am 1.3 quarts low when the light comes on while driving and stays on...i had read this somewhere a while back so i knew it was safe to just dump a quart in when the light pops on

https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/low-oil-light.506945/#post-5792255

"According to the manual, that's normal.

In my case, and in the case of the OP, the warning light comes one for a few minutes, then goes off. This happens when the oil level is getting close to the LOW mark on the dipstick, but still in the normal range.

My '13 manual says:

2.5L:
Engine not running: Light will come one when approx 2.2 qt (US) remain.

Engine running: Light will come on when approx 3.8 qt (US) remain.

3.6L:
Engine not running: 4 qt (US)

Engine running: 5.6 qt (US)

---

2.5L:
Capacity: 5.1 qt (US)

Low level on dipstick: Approx 1.1 qt (US) below full, (4 qt). Oil level light should come on at approx 3.8 qt when running.

3.6L:
Capacity: 6.9 qt (US)

Low level on dipstick: Approx 1.1 qt (US) below full, (5.8 qt). Oil level light should come on at approx 5.6 qt when running.

---

In both cases, the oil level light should come on when oil levels show just below the LOW mark on the dipstick. But I have a feeling that the word "approximately" in all the documentation means to expect a little variation. In my case, even though I'm about 1/4 way above the LOW mark, that's when my oil level light starts to alarm. And the last time I was due for an oil change, I was starting to see that behavior.

Rather than get the oil change early, I just added 1/2 qt, the light stopped coming on, and I continued until my next oil change interval."

37 minutes ago, ammcinnis said:

No.

if we are talking about the sensor that is telling the low oil light to turn on, that seems to be functioning properly as you can see from the photos above...so what is the oil sensor are we talking about and what is its function?

On 3/22/2023 at 11:47 AM, NORULZleggy said:

I use 5w-30 and that really helped my car. there might be a faulty oil sensor. I have pushed my CVT HARD, it see tripple digits here and there, but it still runs very smooth. I do plan on keeping the car and putting in a new shortblock. 

thanks...i was driving yesterday and the oil light popped on again...i decided to just use the 5qt jug of 0w-20 up...i had an empty 1qt 0w-20 bottle in my recycle so i pulled it out and pulled out a measuring cup that i use for oil in the garage and measured out 1qt dumped it into the car and then dumped a quart into the empty bottle to put in my trunk...i'll get into the 10w-40 once i use up all the 0w-20...maybe in the winter i will try out 5w-30 and see how it goes

could an oil sensor cause oil to be consumed?...like i said when i checked the oil dipstick after the light turned on after 250 miles it was down to the bottom hole (low oil) on the dipstick before i added oil...i will try to upload the photos

23 hours ago, BoozeRS05 said:

Agreed on servicing the cvt regularly. For a $200 dealership cost, it’s on my 30k mile maintenance checklist.

23 hours ago, NORULZleggy said:

I did mine at 110K lol 

i have never serviced my cvt...but i did have to replace the throttle body in the transmission not long ago due to a faulty solenoid...that was a fun repair

after light came on before adding 1 qt of oil

after adding 1 qt of oil

2 hours ago, NORULZleggy said:

If you did not know Point37, these cars are know for bad short blocks. that is why they burn oil. The FB25 in the Outback, forester, and Legacy have the issue. I also have a MY13 2.5i that burns oil. I took it to Subaru because of the warranty, and  because they do the free test oil consumption test, and my car failed and I have a bad short block. Subaru was going to pay half to replace the motor because I was 1100 miles past the 100k mark, but I wanted the whole thing replace and they would not budge. This came down from SOA. 

I have only had my oil light come on twice in the 5 years I have owned the car. My car is not as bad. My tuner that build my 06 LGT said to just keep an eye on the oil and drive it. It has been fine, but it does have a bad cat. They are also know for bad cats.

You seem to have a bad problem if your burning oil and the oil light has come on so often or you have a bad sensor. I would drain the oil, and add in 5.2 quarts with a fresh filter and see how many miles it takes for the light to come on. Good luck!

thanks...great info...i know my car would fail an oil consumption test but i'm way over the mileage so it doesn't matter at this point...i have 1 more 5qt jug of new 0w-20 that i bought a while ago and 1 5qt jug of 10w-40 and 4 1qt bottles of 10w-40 that i just bought...i keep the 1qt bottles in the trunk for when the light comes on...i am going to try and return the 0w-20 jug to walmart without a receipt cause i bought it over 90 days ago (store policy limit for returns)...then i'll do my next oil change with the 10w-40...if they don't let me return it i will use it for my next oil change and just mix in the 10w-40 bottles when the light comes on and i will refill the 1qt 10w-40 bottles with the 5qt of 10w-40...hopefully this slows the issue

what sensor would you be talking about?...in one of my previous posts the low oil light came on when it was a monday...put a quart in...250 miles later on the thursday the same week the low oil light came on...right when i got home i checked the dipstick and it was barely above the low oil hole in the dipstick...i dumped in a quart in and it was full...i took photos but it's a pain to upload photos on here...i typically use tapatalk to upload photos onto forums but this forum doesn't work on there anymore

1 hour ago, BoozeRS05 said:

Yeah it’s definitely a problem. I’ve read cam seal leaks are starting to show up a lot, I think mine are leaking, and it requires motor removal.

I definitely support a more substantial oil weight than the manufacturer recommendation though.

thanks...maybe that's the issue with mine...but at this point its not worth diagnosing cause it will cost more than the car is worth

52 minutes ago, NORULZleggy said:

I agree with you, I do not and have not used what they recommend for these motors. I switched long ago and it seems to have got much better. I do plan on a new short block if it ever gets real bad. I really like the car and it runs very well. I have 149K and I got my trans all flushed out and she really runs great. I know they say it does not need to be done, but thats because most people never keep there cars that long. My shop has seen many of these cars with 250K miles on a well taken care of trans (CVT). I kept my outback to 267K and it ran great. Cheaper than these new pieces of junk  

what oil weight are you using?...i'm doing mostly highway driving at 80mph so the rpms are higher for most of my driving which probably contributes to the oil consumption i'm guessing

ordered the PCV valve and hose connected to it...my hose doesn't look bad but i can't say i won't tear it when trying to remove it to get the PCV valve out...better safe than sorry

low oil light came on monday...put a quart in...low oil light came on again today (thursday)...250 miles later so i dumped another quart in...switching to 10w-40 to see if i can slow it down a little...next step will be 20w-50...next step will be new car

this says if you pull the pcv valve and it doesn't rattle then it's bad...i'll probably replace anyway...looks pretty simple

https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/How-to-do-a-PCV-valve-test

31 minutes ago, ammcinnis said:

At that rate of oil consumption, your new cat is not likely to last very long. It may be time to consider swapping out that engine. 'Till then, when was the last time you replaced the PCV valve (and hose)?

i'm hoping it does...the original lasted 216k miles but i don't recall when the oil consumption issue began...as far as the PCV valve and hose...never replaced...can you enlighten me on what it actually is?...how hard is it to swap out?...cost?

edit: found on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdkzUySjlxo

do i need the valve and both of these hoses or just part 1AD69A as the video shows?

https://parts.metrowestsubaru.com/a/Subaru_2013_Legacy-25L-CVT-4WD-Premium-Sedan/_54102_6023892/EMISSION-CONTROL-PCV-13MY-/B14-082-04.html

On 1/21/2019 at 2:24 PM, Point37 said:

 

 

I have been doing the same as you minus going to the dealer...I have 140,000 on my 2013 right now and do 7,500 mile oil/filter changes...I typically add 2 or 3 quarts within the 7,500 miles when the light pops (1 quart each time the light pops on)...I hate carrying 3 extra quarts of oil in my trunk all the time...at the rate it’s consuming oil I wonder why I even bother changing the oil and just swap out the filter every 7,500 miles and just keep adding oil each time the light pops on

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On 1/21/2019 at 8:44 PM, ronemus said:

I'd try 10W-40 - higher viscosity usually cuts consumption. I used 20W-50 when my '90 & '02 got to 100k.

necrothread!...update: my 2013 with 216k miles is now consuming at a rate of 1qt/~500miles...just just replaced the catalytic converter after replacing both o2 sensors...i'm still running mobil 1 0w-20 or castrol or whatever walmart has...i drive a lot of highway miles and usually wait till the light comes on which is typically when i'm on the highway...pull off the next exit and just dump a quart in...checking the dipstick before and after it usually looks almost empty and then almost full after adding a quart...i typically use trip B to monitor my oil mileage...going to take ronemus' advice and up my oil weight...i think i'm going to try 10w-40 for the winter and run 20w-50 during the summer cause i'm getting sick of having to stop in bad weather and dump 1 in...i never remember to check it at home and i also don't want to overfill so i just use the oil light as my gauge cause it seems like 1qt makes it right...at this point i almost feel i should just keep adding oil instead of changing it and just swap out the filter every 7500 miles (i use mobil 1 filters)

1 hour ago, m sprank said:

Duh.  Reading comprehension.  Ok.

 

Here you go, 5th gen is found in this listing:

https://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/

 

or

 

 

YEAR	Legacy Outback	Baja	Impreza Outback Sport Crosstrek	WRX STI	Forester	Tribeca	SVX	BRZ
1990	None
1991	None
1992	BC-BF-BJ						CX
1993	None		GC-GF-GM				CX
1994	None		GC-GF-GM				CX
1995	BD-BG-BK		GC-GF-GM				CX
1996	BD-BG-BK		GC-GF-GM				CX
1997	BD-BG-BK		GC-GF-GM				CX
1998	BD-BG-BK		GC-GF-GM		SF
1999	BD-BG-BK		GC-GF-GM		SF
2000	BE-BH		GC-GF-GM		SF
2001	BE-BH		GC-GF-GM		SF
2002	BE-BH		GD-GG		SF
2003	BE-BH	BE-BH-BT	GD-GG		SG
2004	BE-BH	BE-BH-BT	GD-GG	GD-GG	SG
2005	BP-BL	BT	GD-GG	GD-GG	SG
2006	BP-BL	BT	GD-GG	GD-GG	SG	WX
2007	BP-BL		GD-GG	GD-GG	SG	WX
2008	BP-BL		GE-GH	GE-GH-GR	SG	WX
2009	BP-BL		GE-GH	STI	SH	WX
2010	BM-BR		GE-GH	STI	SH	WX
2011	BM-BR		GE-GH	GV-GR	SH	WX
2012	BM-BR		GJ-GP	GV-GR	SH	WX
2013	BM-BR		GJ-GP	GV-GR	SH	WX		ZC
2014	BM-BR		GJ-GP	GV-GR	SJ	WX		ZC
2015	BN-BS		GJ-GP	VA	SJ			ZC
2016	BN-BS		GJ-GP	VA	SJ			ZC
2017	BN-BS		GJ-GP	VA	SJ			ZC
2018	BN-BS		GJ-GP	VA	SJ			ZC
2019	BN-BS		GJ-GP	VA	SK			ZC
2020	BT-BW		GJ-GP	VA	SK			ZC

thanks so much!...this will be quite helpful as this car ages i suspect

25 minutes ago, m sprank said:

Why not refer to the actual FSM?

 

MY 05, 08, 09

 

Enjoy.

 

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

thanks but this is for a 2013

i recently got a new iphone SE 2022 (coming from an iphone 8)...i deleted my old bluetooth connection from the car and paired the new phone...now the new phone won't automatically connect when i get in the car...i either have to connect through the bluetooth settings on my phone or i have to hit the menu button when i am on the bluetooth menu on the car head unit and choose the phone...anyone know what is going on with this?

haynes says:

rear lateral link-to-knucle bolt/nut: 59ft*lb (80N*m)

stabalizer bar link bolt/nut:24ft*lb (33N*m)

shock absorber lower mounting bolt/nut: 88ft*lb (120N*m)

inner lateral link bolt/nut: does not say

whiteline directions says:

step 8. Tighten all points and end link bolts to OE torque spec.

step 10. Once the desired alignment has been achieved tighten both the inner and outer bolt/nuts to 50ft*lb (68N*m). 

https://imageapi.partsdb.com.au/api/Image?urlId=mG7Hd8eoI24XYEOFCFNrThEzyGt6yr61oIoZwXolbQsVEicunDRqmbA%2FgoKetDEp

silverton from the factory manual says:

The inner and outer lateral link nut torque is 80nm/59ft-lbs

The swaybar endlink nut torque is 33nm/24.3ft-lb

The strut nut torque is 120nm/88.5ft-lb

so i guess my question is according to the whiteline directions i tighten everything to OEM torque specs then i adjust the camber on the outer lateral link bolt/nut and then i torque that bolt/nut to 50ft*lb after i already torqued it to 59 ft*lb???

58 minutes ago, Scubaboo said:

Yeah 7 ft-lbs shouldnt be a big deal either way.  Good luck!

And yes, you need to get an alignment for sure after that.  As mentioned already here, camber changes come with toe changes with these multilink rears.

thanks again!...that will be the plan

20 minutes ago, GTEASER said:

These from RockAuto would have been plenty for you if you were set on an adjustable arm. Cheaper too. Nearly identical to the Whiteline units but without the hard inner bushings.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8439484&cc=1504361&pt=10401&jsn=408&_nck=Ekt6BqBF1pwlXdx0gYlm1esw98pF26vehMm%2FGG3C%2Fl2QOXSJubi7WSpUmUSdg3OxWOs2f5z9h422EONy36O0PjCuaadDqI1r86y%2FvJ1lBqxeBNhI9mMX8H1x0fHFzmF%2BKG7YKD8h756k3BtrsE6fARMKaXNp7eQFiprUry%2F3aNaQKjQsmXoMDilrLCMYgOIsMiuO7dm4JKqdyjUkyeP2%2BGfRTCain3PBJClzQTe3aS4gmHz9%2Fia9zgh4eySTiI%2BOwhgSYx39NsMPfDhV8OuY0RQC%2FjPzy%2Bg1iaZfsP6c0QxiqiSB%2Bh%2Fb3g%2BQC%2BqhAs2MEhL37WWWGIrj4KTteU6TKxcrGtMH245AshhpCkC1du35gfYciacoDezC3SlkTSZi

thanks...half the price!...the whitelines are on their way so i guess i'll just run with them