Point37

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/subaru-legacy-says-goodbye-after-36-years-suvs-win-again/

Anyone ever have this happen?...i am thinking this is an issue with the ABS module

28 minutes ago, MoleMan said:

I would stick with the Fumoto.

With me never had an issue with the product as well and the gasket material is being nitpicky if I wanted to gripe.  The way I look at it yes it's cleaner.  But still gotta replace the oil filter.  But on the daily that had the Fumoto I did notice that 3.75 quarts came out with the filter not the four that normally came out.  I am the guy who lets the oil drain for a half hour to make sure every drop comes out and it's on ramps on an angle so it's easy to do that.   Great product just decided that for me the plug was a better way.

Depending on what engine the Fumoto makes things way easier especially if your filter is on top it's clean. With bottom mounted filters for me it's easier with the plug.  But once again great product.  

I am glad we share the same opinion with Kia.  At least yours drives without needing a quart of oil every 200 miles lol.

 

on my subaru its clean with the inverted filter on top of the engine...on the kia i still have to make a mess pulling the cartridge filter out of this abomination of engineering (below)...it does have a lip that you can crack the cap and let it drain prior to pulling it off all the way...the kia is also consuming oil but at a lower rate which kia says is within its spec (1qt / 1k+ miles = normal)...this seems like BS to me...i have to keep an eye on it cause the low oil sensor does not come on until the engine is dry...have read this on their forums...the subaru low oil light comes on around 1qt low...the kia housing below started to leak at 41k miles recently...i replaced it myself cause they couldn't find the leak but also wanted to charge me $130 for a "modification fee" for the fumoto valve...i didn't pay it and replaced the part myself...wasn't sure if the housing was the issue or the double port gasket or there was a crack so i bought the whole housing...i knew the leak was coming from there cause it starts higher than the fumoto (which was dry inside the drain port) as well as higher than the garbage seal job on the oil pan...torque setting for the 4 bolts is 15 ft*lbs and the metal bolt sleeves don't allow it to be tightened any extra so when that double port rubber gasket compresses enough it leaks...planned failure...vs just using a can filter with a gasket that gets replaced each time...POS design

16 hours ago, MoleMan said:

You need to take it it!  Been a week since my post been traveling sorry for delay.  But yeah your Kia has a parking brake update that was all over the news that needs to be updated.

Just saying.  I took a chance on a Kia. Lasted two months before I got rid of the POS.  And it was a new Soul.  Thing drank oil at the rate of a quart every 200 miles.  Dealer was no help. Kia customer service is just as bad.  Probably could have got lemoned but thankfully the dealer I traded it into gave me 2k less then I bought it for.  I was glad to just get rid of it.  

Kia/Hyundai is really good with sales as they get you with all the fancy tech that a similar priced competitor would not have.  Where they fail is the engines.  Let's be real.  Go count the number of Fourth or Fifth gen Outbacks or Legacys while out one day.  Then see how many Ten to 15 year old Kias or Hyundai's you see.   They are also really funny. I have a co worker that beats the shit out of his 15 Elantra flooring it everywhere and the thing never has had an issue.

 

As far as the Fumoto. I had the product on several of my cars. Thought it would be easier changing oil. 

 

What I learned is it's really not.  I could never get as much oil out of the pan as I could with a normal oil plug.  So I just went back to the plug and washer.  Great idea.  But in the end I did it for accuracy. Nothing wrong with the product itself.  Only gripe I could not pick about is the material the Gasket is made out of. To me it should have been metal.  But that's griping.

 

Good luck.

i am aware of the recall but dealers won't even be notified till May so it won't be able to happen yet anyway...plus they estimate 1% of 427,407 vehicles have the defect...just engage the parking brake till then and bring it to a less slimey dealer...kia was not my choice but it's also not my daily driver...i would have went with toyota, honda, mazda and maybe subaru (if i felt like i wouldn't end up consuming oil again)...i don't trust the kia to go into high mileage but i guess we are going to find out...and if it doesn't get to 200k miles it will be the last kia we buy...i have a fumoto on the kia and on the subaru...has never leaked on either vehicle so i'm not too concerned with the gasket material...oil goes right back into the jug it came from...clean oil changes for the subaru...kia is messier because of the stupid oil filter housing...not sure how much the threads of the fumoto extend into the pan as i've never bothered to pull it back out to measure or to see if any additional oil comes out upon removal...i would also consider using valvomax https://www.valvomax.com/collections/all-products but i don't like how you need to use an additional fitting to open the valve

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V214-9846.PDF

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RMISC-24V214-6943.pdf

On 4/2/2024 at 4:25 PM, Alexmed2002 said:

Here's a link to it.

https://insidemazda.mazdausa.com/the-mazda-way/technology/g-vectoring-control/

thanks...i'll take a spin through it during lunch

On 4/2/2024 at 9:24 PM, dgoodhue said:

Subaru as well as other manufacturers do this.  This is part of the VDC.

if the brakes are being applied in my subaru then they make some very good pads cause i think i've only had the brakes done 2 or 3 times over 235k miles

thanks...i'll check that website out when the time comes...do you know what that corner braking feature is called?...i'd like to read up on it a little

31 minutes ago, Loya1ty said:

Big fan of the Mazda styling and driver oriented driving and comfort (passengers aren't quite as high but decent). The big reason we ended up with the Highlander over the CX-9 is due to the lame sales team at the Mazda dealer, and knowing the highlander would retain its value better since we knew it is our bridge SUV while the baby/toddler stage wreaks havoc lol - then it's probably an update to a Volvo XC-90 hybrid (but may consider the new CX-90/Grand Highlander/Telluride). Hard to beat Volvo comfort though but pricing is important.

that's good news...i spend a lot of time in the car so the more comfortable it is the better...

my wife has a '22 telluride sx...we have a now 6 year old, one 65lb dog and one 75 lb dog...the telluride is pretty nice although i don't drive it a ton...but i do as much of the maintenance as i can...i really dislike the kia dealers though...they will do everything they can to get out of warranty work...the car has 41k miles and it started leaking from the stupid plastic oil filter housing...i bring it in and they can't locate the leak and did nothing but they want to charge me $130 "modification fee" for having a fumoto valve...i didn't end up paying it and just replaced the housing myself...i also think it's starting to consume oil a little but it's within their consumption tolerances...i just did an engine flush and cleaned the intake valves with the last oil change when i replaced the housing so hopefully that helps...i'm going to replace the pcv valve and install a j&l oil separator this weekend hopefully...other than that the windshield glass is thin/weak...first windshield didn't make it through it's first new england winter...everything else has been fine...very good tech but it has too much for my liking but i guess all the new cars do at this point...i would love a volvo wagon but i think it would kill me over time with repairs for how much i drive

do anyone run an oil separator/catch can on their legacy?...i'm debating on installing one on my mom's outback

31 minutes ago, Alexmed2002 said:

Don't forget that the CX-5 is made in Japan so the quality is superb versus the CX-50 that is american made and considered to be a lot cheaper with its interior. It's actually smaller in terms of head room compared to the CX-5. I'm 5'11 and when I sat in the CX-50 my head was pretty much touching the top when I was sitting comfortably in one. The only "complaint" I have with the CX-5 is that the OEM tires you get only last like 35k-40k miles and the brakes don't last as long since the car uses them very slightly on turns to maintain a smooth feel to the steering wheel. Other than that it's been great since the Mazda dealer near me does a special where they do a full synthetic oil change + tire rotation for around $90. 

good to know about the usa/japan models...also good point about the head room...i think i had read that as well but haven't sat in one yet...i am the same height so i'm probably going to remove it from my list...i didn't know that the brakes are used on turns either...seems like a waste...the legacy brake pads have lasted a long time i have found...i'll probably pick up a fumoto valve and do my own oil changes...i was looking at the accessories for the cx-5...any recommendations for OEM vs aftermarket accessories?...i would get mud flaps, all weather floor mats, cargo tray, trailer hitch and the cargo cover...i'm thinking smartliners for the mats and cargo tray...trailer hitch OEM...cargo cover aftermarket...mud flaps i'm not sure if i would go OEM or aftermarket

27 minutes ago, Alexmed2002 said:

I think that the CX-5 might be your best bet. Matches everything your asking for and while it's not equipped with the biggest volume in the cargo area for the class, it certainly is plenty if you utilize it correctly. We have three of them in the family and they can take a lot of wear and tear. My girlfriend literally stuffed an entire room worth of stuff and drove from MA to Florida and still got great gas mileage. I have a CX-5 Turbo and that thing is a blast to drive, and I still get like 21 MPG while driving around town in the winter. It drives so much better and is more unique than a bland Toyota or Honda which are more like utilities and being made cheaper now.

thanks...i am leaning that way at the moment...it seems like i can get most of what i want out of it and i can get leather and seat memory at a lower price point than other choices...it will have more cargo room than the legacy...only 1.8 cu ft of volume less than the outback...no cvt and carplay would be nice as well...i also like that the rear seat is a trifold vs 60/40...they are less expensive than a rav4 or crv...cx-50 have to get into a higher trim for the same options i want, i hear the seats are not that comfortable and there isn't much more cargo room than the cx-5 (+0.6 cu ft)...also there's a mazda dealer 1 mile from home and i had great luck with my 05 mazda 6 into high mileage...hoping the legacy will top the 6's mileage when i unload it

i would love a tsx wagon but i'd be going back in tech as well as have to find one down south that hasn't seen salt...as far as sedans go the only 1 that would be decent would be the integra...the integra is basically the same as the civic but it does have the option for memory seats...i was surprised by the amount of cargo room the civic hatch/integra has

20 hours ago, Loya1ty said:

Quite the list Point XD gonna be a few days of test drives when the time comes.

I came across this low priced, high mileage '18 3.6 outback: https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/4S4BSETC5J3323607

Unfortunately, it appears based on service records that oil changes were barely done over 166 miles lol not to mention from sources such as dealer, midas, and walmart. i'd wonder what that engine looks like 0.0

my list fluctuates...probably won't test drive all of them...trying to find a good mix of reliability, gas mileage, low to the ground and storage is not easy...especially when you want more cargo floor area (not volume) and there aren't many wagons left to buy...i'm leaning more towards another subaru but i just don't want another oil guzzler which it seems is the case when they get into high mileage unless you run conventional oil

crossover suvs
*-honda crv ex-l (for leather and seat memory) (2011-2015, 2016-2022, 2023+)
-honda hrv ex-l awd (for leather NO seat memory) (2023+)
-mazda cx-50 premium plus (for leather and seat memory) (2022+)
*-mazda cx-5 2.5s preferred (for leather and seat memory) (2017+) (like preferred for 17" wheels)
*-subaru outback limited (for leather and seat memory) (2020+) (on the list reluctantly)
-subaru forester touring (for leather and seat memory) (2018-2023, 2024+) (on the list reluctantly)
*-toyota rav 4 xle premium + weather package (for leather and seat memory) (2015-2017, 2018+)

older wagonish choices
*-acura tsx sportwagon (for leather and seat memory) (2011-2015)
-toyota venza xle (for leather and seat memory) (2009-2015)
-honda crosstour or honda accord crosstour ex-l (for leather and seat memory) (2010-2015)

sedans
-acura integra A spec with tech package (for leather and seat memory) (2023+)
-honda accord (2018-2022, 2023+) (NO leather NO memory seat unless hybrid ex-l)
-honda civic hatch ex-l or sedan touring (for leather NO seat memory) (2021+)
-mazda 3 preferred (for leather and seat memory) (2019+)
-mazda 6 grand touring (for leather and seat memory) (2014-2021)
-toyota avalon 6cyl limited (for leather and seat memory) (2018+)
-toyota camry xle (for leather NO seat memory) (2017-2023, 2024+)

22 hours ago, Dantvballcoach said:

Weathertech is too overpriced. These smart liner protectors are the bomb!

we have these in my wife's car...i am impressed for the price

i would also buy & install a fumoto oil drain valve and buy the brass nipple and some vinyl tubing...very clean oil changes

2 hours ago, MoleMan said:

I would take that device off that Kia ASAP.  With the issues I am seeing with the engines on the Tellurides and The Palisades now popping up Kia will blame you if they find it and decline any warranty claim.  Had to go through the Kia Oil Burning rod bearing issue myself on my daughters car.  Kia gave us every excuse in the book to not fix even though it has the KSDS update and regular oil changes with factory filter.  In the end they declined the warranty due to me not putting down an oil change I did myself.  Thankfully I was able to get 5k out of the thing and got her a used Lexus at the same dealership.

 

And yes the rod bearing issue is on the 2.0's, 2.4's, and even the new 3.8's now.  

But back to topic.  Take it off or they will decline anything for a warranty thats big.  Kia really does not care at all.

not taking it off...takes 5 minutes to install and 5 minutes to remove...will remove if i have to take it in...i do all my own oil changes...and i do know what you mean, kia sucks...i am 100% sure this will be our last kia...i'm not dealing with the bullsh!t they pull just to get warranty work done...i have my own first experience where they wanted to charge me $130 "modification fee" for a fumoto valve when i asked them to replace the oil filter housing under warranty cause it was leaking...they couldn't locate the leak and did nothing but they still wanted to charge me the modification fee....didn't pay it...so i decided to pay for the part myself and install it myself vs have to go through the process of removing the fumoto and wasting oil or trying to find a dealer that is farther from home and isn't going to penalize me for having something on my car that makes my life easier and clearly isn't the cause the leak since it's totally dry inside the valve port but everything else around it is drenched in oil...so on top of the autostop eliminator i would have to remove the fumoto as well if i actually bring it in to kia which i hope to never do again but judging by their reputation i'm guessing i will have to

1 hour ago, DrD123 said:

How hard is it to get to the connector on the back of the button?  You could probably just run a jumper across the right pins and accomplish the same thing without wedging something in place...

very easy actually...i have seen people install a jumper too but i didn't want to have to go back in there if it came loose...this is a much more solid install

2 hours ago, Scooby Fan said:

Whoa!! That's a lot of miles....are you the original owner?

By comparison my 2013 3.6R has just over 30,000 miles 

yes...bought it new in 2013...getting approx. 600 miles per quart on this baby!

235k miles and still rolling...have to get to sept. 2026 for my wife to pay off her car then i can look at a new car...let's see if it can make it that far...getting around 600mi/qt for oil at the moment

2013 legacy 2.5 premium white daily driver with 235k miles
male - 43
civil engineer project manager
first oil guzzling subaru
mods: fumoto valve...that's about it

just trying to kick it down the road till my wife is out of her payments so i can get a new car

i installed the autostop eliminator on my wife's telluride to give the button memory...on the telluride others have disabled it by pushing the button down and jamming something along the edge of the button to keep it depressed so it stays off...could try something similar i would imagine...just hold the button down shut the car off and turn it back on and see if it stays disabled...i chose the plug & play route cause i didn't want the hassle should it need warranty work

joined 6/24/2013 but don't come on too much...only when the car is having issues for the most part

i have both of these...can't remember which worked out better for the upstream sensor...on top of that i think i took a few parts out from the top of the engine (plastic intake) and just used a bunch of ratchet extensions to get down there...or maybe that was for the downstream sensor...can't remember...

TEKTON 3/8 Inch Drive x 7/8 Inch... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NPUKIE?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

TEKTON 3/8 Inch Drive x 7/8 Inch... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GMN4D1Q?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

my legacy has 233k and guzzling oil at 600mi/qt so i will probably be looking at something from honda, toyota or mazda once it finally dies...hoping to stretch it to sept 2026 when my wife's car payment is done...probably something with more cargo space...ideally i would like a wagon but there aren't many newer wagons available from reliable manufacturers...

-honda crv ex-l (2011-2015, 2016-2021, 2022+)
-mazda cx-50 premium plus or turbo (2022+)
-mazda cx-5 2.5s preferred (2017+) (like preferred for 17" wheels)
-subaru outback limited (2020+) [for leather & seat memory] (on the list reluctantly)
-subaru forester touring (2018-2023, 2024+) [for leather & seat memory] (on the list reluctantly)
-toyota rav 4 xle premium + weather package (2015-2017, 2018+)

-acura tsx sportwagon (2011-2015)
-toyota venza (2009-2015) [xle for seat memory and leather]
-honda crosstour or honda accord crosstour (2010-2015) [ex-l for seat memory and leather]

*-honda accord (2018-2022, 2023+) (no leather or memory seat unless hybrid ex-l)
-honda civic hatch ex-l or sedan touring (2021+)
*-mazda 6 touring (2014-2021) (memory seat available on grand touring reserve and up)
*-toyota camry xle (2017-2023, 2024+)(no seat memory)

12 hours ago, Falcor said:

What is weird is this started happening a couple days after the Subaru dealer worked on it in December. There were also a couple loose bolts I found a couple weeks ago when I tore it down to fix a leak. Going to take Humble's advise and look and see if something is up with the wiring or plugs. 

did the dealer do any recalls?...should say on your paperwork...are you having issues with starting or does it idle really low and inconsistently?...basically is it not running right?...mine is doing these things so i know i have a problem with my cat being clogged due to the oil consumption...if you don't have similar issues an electrical issue may be more likely

if mine throws a code before state inspection time i will be putting a spacer on the downstream o2 sensor just to get by the inspection...won't do anything to fix the issue but it will take care of the code and light

https://jcarpart.com/search?options[unavailable_products]=show&options[prefix]=last&q=o2+spacer

20 hours ago, Falcor said:

So far I have replaced both O2 sensors and the fuel cap. I am driving out of town and back all this week, and the code has popped up on the way out and back each day (morning and evening). I stop and clear the code with the AP, then it doesn't come back on that drive. It's about a 40 min drive each way.

Last week I drove it 2 1/2hrs and had no issues, then did about 20 min after getting gas. That made me think (hope) it was the fuel cap.

I'll look over the wiring if I get a chance tonight.

i had the same code...as you did i swapped out the downstream o2 sensor (bought me a year)...p0420 came back early 2023 so i swapped out the upstream o2 sensor (no effect)...swapped out the cat with an aftermarket cat in jan 2023 which got me until nov 2023 and the code came back...this time i ran a bottle of cat cleaner (link below) with a full tank of fuel through it and the code went away and hasn't come back yet but i assume it will...my car has 230k miles and is consuming oil at a rate of ~600mi/qt which is why the cat is getting clogged...i will probably run a bottle of cleaner through it quarterly to keep it running better...not trying to put an engine in it or tear it down...car isn't worth much so i'll get a new one when it dies

https://a.co/d/i3LAIbH

6 minutes ago, silverton said:

Yeah it's definitely too late to stop whats happening without a rebuild/replacement.  If you're just trying to run it til it dies I'd just keep changing the oil with 5w30 or even a 5w40 at whatever interval you want to.  Honestly with your rate of consumption you're basically doing a rolling oil change.  Replace the oil filter every 6-12 months and make sure the oil is full, good to go!

i've been running 10w-30 and 10w-40 at this point...bought some liquid moly...i'm going to do an engine flush before my next oil change as well...may not do much at this point but i doubt it will hurt

12 minutes ago, silverton said:

every 0 weight oil is going to be synthetic.  you can find full and partial synthetic 5w30.  It doesn't matter any more though, that was an issue like 20 years ago when synthetic oils were new.

you should read that as "0w20 oil is optimal for fuel efficiency so the EPA gets off our back"

 

7500 is the normal service table; but I bet you don't fall under normal service. You need to follow the severe service table (OCI 3750) if any one of the following applies:

I live in Seattle, so I frequently check mark the first, second, and fourth severe condition. In a few years we're all gonna be driving under that third one

thanks...most of my driving is highway miles in new england...i have to check the book again to see if there is a severe service table listed...not that it matters much at this point...not even sure it's worth changing the oil at this point due to how fast it's being consumed...but i am going to continue doing it anyway as i want to bury this car since we just picked up a loaded 2022 telluride for my wife in sept 2021 and it was a 6 year loan so i'm trying to avoid having 2 payments at the same time but that's going to be inevitable cause i'm not sure how much longer this car will go for

16 minutes ago, silverton said:

No, if you read your owners manual you should find 5w30 is an approved weight, you'll notice 1-2mpg less though.  7500 is far too long, so you may have done this to yourself?

I don't know what they recommended on your car when new, but at a dealership in 2020 your car was on a 3750 interval. 15+ were 6000 miles and that's still too long to go on oil, but that's what they do to lower the cost of ownership metric..  you should go 5000 tops, definitely NOT 7500

Using a slightly thicker oil weight wont void your warranty, unless you put some 75w90 in there.... dont do that.

 

Since you do it yourself and you have concern for warranty claim, have your parts guy ring the 0w20 up, but then refund it for the 5w30

no 5w-30 isn't and approved weight for synthetic...the manual says the following...

0w-20 synthetic oil is the required oil for optimum engine performance and protection. Conventional oil may be used if synthetic oil is unavailable.

If 0w-20 synthetic oil is not available, 5w-30 or 5w-40 conventional oil may be used if replenishment is needed but should be changed to 0w-20 synthetic oil at the next oil change

i thought you weren't supposed to switch between conventional and synthetic so i always ran synthetic 0w-20 until the consumption got bad

the recommended oil change interval is 7,500 miles in the maintenance schedule...and i know that a lot of synthetic oils go much farther than that today but i stuck with the schedule for oil changes...i have never taken a sample to send off to blackstone labs to be analyzed though...judging by the class action suit about oil consumption i don't think it was my any of my fault

On 12/9/2023 at 11:33 AM, silverton said:

Well you got a '13 legacy, hindsight is always 20:20.  every FB engine from 11-13 consumed oil, those were the beta engines when the EPA forced subaru to push the engine into production, forester seemed to have gotten the worst of it..  even some of the 14s and 15s.  I know your case is different since you were trying any oil to stop your consumption, but as I said .... getting my oil changed at one shop i thought had consumption issues, started changing it at another shop and boom.. no consumption, only difference was quality of oil.

My recommendation is get that Outback, but from the very beginning run a high quality 5w30 like chevron/mobil1/idemitsu/whatever.. over the 0w20 the dealer has and change the oil every 3000 miles. I think the 6000 mile interval is just asinine.

thanks...i've heard nightmares from some of the quick oil change places so i do it myself...this way i can monitor consumption...i did all my oil changes at 7,500 miles aside from the first one to get any metal shavings inside the engine out...wouldn't using different weight oil void warranty should an issue arise?