Reloadit

A Subaru dealer service department put in the wrong shafts? I'd never go back there again, and I would tell everyone who might get taken by them. Of all the techs on earth, the dealer should have basic knowledge of their own vehicles.

It wasn't the Subaru Dealer, it was the used car dealer I bought it from, and in their defense I had been getting the wrong parts from AutoZone and Napa around that same time. It seemed nothing their computers suggested or called for was right, even on my Chevy truck. They do the labor for $50 an hour because I bought it from them. AutoZone delivered the wrong part to them. I may take it back to them and give them the shot at figuring it out even if they have to lie and say they fixed something else to get it solved.

Their Subaru tech was out, with a very sick baby.

If it did not shimmy on the way to the CV and tire work and it did on the way back, then it is related to the work done. Get a second opinion from a different alignment shop.

Yes, I'm coming to that conclusion. Tires were a tire store, Les Schwab and the dealer did the CV joints. The dealer put the wrong ones in and then had to take them out to put the right ones in. That part is what concerns me.

My 2000 Outback cruise control (CC) was working intermittently and the switch arm seemed sticky. I turned the steering wheel so the CC arm was sticking straight up and sprayed a very little Walmart Supertech carb cleaner down into the hinge area of the arm. It must have dissolved the varnish or goo on the contacts because it worked perfectly immediately. Took about 2 minutes, hope this works for you.

Thanks Doug, mine turned out to be a vacuum line just like the fellas advised right off. I inspected all the lines that were easily visible and all were fine but later found on lower fitting wide open.

Now I am still dealing with two issues, ONE is the car shimmies from about 25 mph to 35 mph and then smooths out. Started doing it right after replacing CV joints and tires. Tire shop has checked balance and I paid them to align when they put the new tires on. They think it is either the transmission or the motor mounts.

Also, when it is hot, the car lugs out from a stop but has stopped now that it is winter. Someone mentioned checking the fuel trim which I feel could be the problems because it does produce some fuel fumes. The timing belt was changed with the CV joints and tires.

I would choose hunting over wrenching most days as well.

Amen, it's getting close to my time of the year where I take two days off a week! Bird hunting and got a big elk hunt planned if the fires stay in check.

Didn't check the PCV yesterday, went bird hunting instead. It is taking more time to start now and still not check engine light. I will try to check the PCV in the morning.

It has a new starter, new fuel filter and fuel pump.

sounds like a vacuum leak or plugged PCV. hvae you checked the the vacuum hoses?

It was a bad vacuum line that was causing the cruise to not work when I got the car so it could be other cracks here and there I could start to check. I can sure check the PCV.

Thanks for the help.

The throttle cable itself shouldn't impact any mixtures and unless it's sticking it shouldn't give any hesitation, but that would more be that it's not reacting well when you release the throttle.

 

 

Hesitation might be the MAP sensor. But how does the hesitation manifest itself? Is it sluggish up to a certain rpm and then it starts to get into power or how does it behave?

When it is an extreme reaction like pulling into traffic it sputters out almost as I hit the gas and jerks a little bit then takes off like normal. Doesn't do it all the time. Sometimes it happens when I start up and try to back out of a parking spot and sometimes it happens when I idle at a stop and then take off. It never dies. It doesn't back fire. I've tried cleaning the map sensor to no avail. Would like to replace that and the TPS but they aren't cheap and not sure I want to buy a cheap ebay part yet.

Fellas, I'm wondering if me tinkering with the throttle cable when I thought it might have been affecting my cruise control might be causing the occasional hesitation from a stop?

Still have no check engine lights on, gas mileage has gone up some with out the AC on. It still seems to idle pretty smooth.

Someone mentioned TRIM and asked if I do smell exhaust/fumes when starting from a stop and if I have my windows down I do smell enough to make you lower the windows even further. I'm wondering if maybe I have the throttle cable off enough to monkey with starts and mixtures? Thoughts? Thanks.

Hey fellas, I added some sea foam for like a third time a few days ago and this morning I changed the upstream o2 sensor. But I am getting the feeling the much cooler temperatures outside have already eliminated my problem with the hesitation from accelerating from a stop. I tried to get it to produce the issue yesterday and couldn't get it to hesitate.

I will keep vigilant to see if it happens on one of the 90 degree days coming up, two of them in the forecast.

As of now, the slight shimmy from 25mph to 35/40mph seems to be my only issue.

If cool weather solves the hesitation issue does that narrow anything down. Mass air flow? Throttle Position? Or is that something that might be solved by the upstream O2 sensor I just replaced?

Thanks fellas.

Belt tension wouldn't increase the load on the engine. It would increase the stress on the bearings for that belt driven item and wear it out sooner if too tight, or make the belt slip if it were too loose.

 

If your engine power is down compared to normal that would be a fuel or spark problem such as cam timing or a sensor out of calibration. I say compared to normal because these guys aren't race cars and the A/C does hurt acceleration a very noticeable amount when everything is working right.

 

I wish you were close enough for a visit because pulling the outer timing covers would take just a few minutes and then we could see for sure if everything is lined up. Then from there concrete steps could be taken.

 

The front sensor is more responsible for AFR and therefore mileage. The rear sensor is more for monitoring the health of the CAT. Not absolutely one and the other, but more like 80% / 20%. So if you are going to swap an O2 sensor, do the front one.

It was much cooler last night. When driving to work, I didn't have the shimmy I feel in the steering wheel and gas peddle until the car had been at operating temperature for about 5 miles then it was very slight. I didn't have the AC on either.

It kills me how it's a 2+ hour job to check the timing position at $105 an hour at my local Subaru dealer. It's $55 an hour at the used car dealer I bought it at but because they replaced it and are adamant they did it right I hesitate to take it back to them. I tell myself they would check it and probably fix it and just tell me it was fine and no harm done except a hour's labor and some other reported fix to say solved it.

It sure runs better when the temps are cooler and the engine is still warming up. Other than it almost lugging out on me yesterday pulling into traffic, it's just a nuisance knowing I plan on putting 150,000 miles more on this car and I want it running like new.

When my O2 sensor comes in, I will drop it in and see what happens. It's getting to that time of the year where I want to be driving the car up into the mountains and filling it with wild game.

I'm thinking I might investigate my 02 sensors, even though I'm not getting a code thrown. My car did almost lug out when I tried pulling out into traffic today and it seems sluggish at start of acceleration.

It's my understanding that the upstream and downstream are the same sensor. Am I correct? If so, which one is most likely to be the issue with poor gas mileage or are they equally responsible? They don't give these things away. I would like to see if I can see a difference before buying a new one or two.

Thanks fellas.

Check your fuel trims. That will indicate if you're running rich.

Well this will be a new experience for me. I'm driving with my AC only only going home from work to see if it makes a noticeable difference. The engine lugs pretty noticeable when I kick it on. I wonder if they might have the belts too tight or something as they replaced all belts with the timing belts.

First, they put in the wrong CV joints, but there is no way they could mis-align the belt? Bah! I've seen skilled people get one tooth off three or four tries in a row until they got it right. It is very fiddly to do. A shop where they are always in a rush might not even check for one tooth off after pulling the pin on the tensionner.

 

Second, it is absolutely not true that it would have all kinds of check engine lights. I've seen many cars off a tooth with zero codes. Mine was off three teeth and it would only once in a while give a random misfire code that would self clear after a few seconds. No codes that would indicate to most people that there was a cam timing problem.

Yep, I didn't buy the line about lights and junk but figured I should bring it up.

I've always had bad luck with timing belts and shops. Our German shop screwed up our Passat and refused to fix it on his dime. It would have been another $2500. My Suby before this one, the guy blew the valves and had to replace them but he did get it right.

Because they also replaced the CV joints, it's more difficult to diagnose the feel when 25-35 miles. I feel it in the steering wheel and the gas pedal, and it is just a mild vibration. I can't tell if it is the engine vibrating or the front end.

It hasn't misfired any. If it were not for that funny feeling from 25-35 mph and the poor gas mileage I would think all is great.

I will set an appointment with them and let them figure it out.

Thanks guys.

OK, spoke to the shop who I bought the car from who put in the timing belt. They say there is no way they could have it off a tooth.

I'm thinking the rough feel from 25 to 35 miles might be something in the cv joints they replaced. They put the wrong ones in first and then had to take them out and put another set in. That makes me think, maybe the engine isn't rough but just a very noticeable wiggle at that speed. It is most noticeable on a gently slow acceleration. If I accelerate more rapidly I don't notice the wiggle/vibration.

The shop says if it was a tooth off there would be all kinds of check engine lights on. Does anyone know if this is the case?

It's cooling down and will soon run it without the AC and see what the millage difference is.

My new tires are 25 1/2 inches tall. I'm wondering if this brand might be over sized? Anyone else have any relatively new tires they can measure to see if these tires are part of the difference?

My jumped timing on my 2nd gen mostly didn't CEL (sometimes long idling would be a random misfire). It ran better at cold start than after warmed up.

 

I think it would be pretty easy to pull off just the outer timing covers and see if the four cams agree with each other. It's not usually the crank being out with the cams all being ok relative to each other.

 

Be gentle putting the timing covers back on, you're not building a bridge, it's just plastic covers.

 

+1 on many dealerships not being able to figure things out without a code until they've blown more money than a chimp in a banana bar.

I've been that chimp in a banana bar with my Chevy truck. I knew it was the fuel injectors but didn't want to pay $400 for all new injectors and after spending $2500 on everything but injectors, replacing the fuel pump 4 times I finally put to used injectors in after 2 months of replacing parts more than once and having it in the shop for two weeks without getting fixed and bam, fixed.

One thing I have to wonder about, the tires were bald and now I have 80,000 miles with what looks to be like 1/2" of tread and on top of the extreme heat and constant AC I suspect I might have a difference in my speedometer reading from going from bald to high tread and a loss of mpg for the AC.

I'm gonna pull some plugs ehsnils to give them a look just in case. I might start changing some sensors too. I have cleaned the throttle body shortly before the increase. We shall see.

I would start with checking that the timing belt is absolutely correctly timed. It can be a real pain in the butt to get right as there are some markings that are ambiguous. Just one or two teeth off could be enough. Running a compression test could give some clues too.

 

 

 

As for the AC - make sure that it disengages when you turn it off. It shouldn't be that hard to check.

 

 

 

Ignition coil isn't that likely if the engine is behaving well and not misfiring.

 

 

And check that the brakes aren't dragging - run the car for some distance, slow down without braking, stop and go out and check the temperature on each wheel, they shall all be alike.

 

 

Both NGK and Bosch are making good parts, even though I think the OEM parts are usually Denso (but it can vary by model year and market), but since it's a Japanese car it's usually either Denso or NGK.

It runs it's poorest from 25 to 35 mph. It's not hideous, it's just not right. I would like to take it to the local dealer but they charge $115 to diagnose and without check engine lights have little faith as I have had issues with dealer diagnoses in the past where it cost me thousands of dollars fixing all the wrong things.

I put the factory coil back in and I don't notice any real difference. I haven't shut my AC off yet. I'm just about down to a half a tank where I might decide to check my fuel mileage and then run it without the AC for a time.

I did put brand new brake pads on about the same time I got the new tires and I better check to make sure they aren't making constant contact. They sure seem fine but will check the temperatures and take your advice on checking them further.

It idles very nice when I first start it up in the mornings when it is still cool. Idles just a little funky on and off when it gets hot outside. It's not a consistent thing though.

The change in gas mileage is the main sign/symptom tipping off to something wrong, well and the consistent rougher running from 25-35 mph. That is very consistent.

When I first changed the plugs right after buying the car, the driver side plug closest to the cab had little to no point left on it. I attributed that to the people who replaced the plugs before not replacing that one because it is the hardest to get to. I'm wondering if I should take the 45 minutes to pull it and check it again.

Does your mileage history extend back more than a year so we can rule out the A/C use?

 

Other items that might change mileage a bunch would be O2 sensors perhaps messed up during service. Exhaust leak upstream of the sensors possibly caused by service? Timing belt installed not quite lined up. Last belt I did was off on one cam on one bank before the change. Correctly installed it picked up about 25% more power, but it had other issues before that point that prevented checking mileage.

 

What sort of scanner can you get access to for drive testing? Lack of codes doesn't mean everything is fine, it just means it isn't totally failed. With a live data scanner we can look at what is going on inside the engine to help find faults.

It’s my first summer with this one. I put the original coil back in. The after market was the NGK not a Bosch. I’m leaving the batter disconnected till morning to make sure the computer resets. When I put the NGK in I disconnected the battery for only the few minutes it took to install.

It’s going to cool down a bit but I’m going to keep using the AC to see what this tank gets me. I can see if AutoZone as a drive scanner I can use. It hasn’t felt quite right since all the work done on it.

You remember me talking about the leak in the passenger side dash. I’ve tried to get it to leak with a hose to no avail. Also, when I use the fresh air setting it rattles with leafs or something in it. I get the feeling the rain takes a few days to fill up whatever eventually overflows into the cab.

Who know, when I get in tomorrow maybe it will run like a top. Crossing my fingers. If not I will visit my friendly AutoZone for a scanner.

New tires are Mazama Reputation Luxury Touring 205/70R15 95T M+S. They were on sale and 80K tires. Haven’t owned 80K tires in a long time.

Thanks for the input. Will keep you posted.

I went from about 24 with my 99 2.5 to about 20. I put a Bosch Coil in which I am going to put my old one back in and see if it is the difference. It’s hot as heck and running the AC constantly. The timing belt was the OEM.

Anyone else lose gas mileage to this extreme. Also replaced both front axils.

Thanks for any thoughts. I will also keep you posted on what I track down.

My windshield guy told me that the glue around mine was dried and cracked to where it was leaking last time I got new front glass. Sounded weird to me, but it did leak before the job and not after, so I guess that glue doesn't work at all like I thought.

I'm going to hose it down and see if I can make it leak. When I turn the AC on, it smells really moldy when it first starts running making me a little suspicious of a drain being plugged even though the dealer said it wasn't.

If my fix is different from pulling the glass and resealing, I will let you guys know.

Problem SOLVED, remember Plugs, Wires, Ignitor/Coil, Fuel Filter, Fuel Pump, Alternator.

I had already changed the plugs but did not change the wires. Turned out the wires I replaced were Yazaki 1998 which after a little google time, I'm pretty sure are the factory original wires. Threw in some Duralast wires and good to go. Do have an NKG Ignitor Coil on it's way and will replace it and on the 10th I will be getting my timing kit replaced and the two front CV axles replaced. After that, just got to figure out the leak that is causing rain to run in under the dash on the passenger's side which shouldn't be too hard.

She's a good little subby.

Well, without any codes being thrown, this is still proving to be a mystery. Here is what I notice. If I drive a bit, get up to running temps, turn it off to shop come back start it up and throw in reverse or forward and it hesitates, the beeping from the key being put in can be interrupted like it's shorted.

Runs perfectly fine the rest of the time, and I think if I start it up and let it run for a bit before moving it will likely be just fine, will test this theory more.

Battery, alternator and all components test fine according to AutoZone. Fuel pump brand new, new fuel filter. Plugs have a couple thousand miles on them.

Here is one thing I am concerned about, it is almost 110,000 miles on the original timing belt. It's scheduled to go into the shop on the 10th for the whole kit. Maybe the belt is stretched enough to effect the performance I don't know.

I hope everyone is having a great pandemic, been I awhile for me to visit and my issue is kind of hard to explain, it acts like it isn't getting fuel when I first start the car and take off. It gets going and then seems to run pretty well after that first initial 10 seconds.

I'm just now making sure it isn't doing it only when the AC is on.

I have changed the fuel filter twice, it was awful the first time so I put a new one in and replaced it pretty quick. This morning I replace the fuel pump and the problem still purists. I cleaned the Mass Air Flow sensor with Sea Foam and still persist.

I just turned the AC off and drove it a little and didn't notice the problem running errands but will keep driving without the AC on to see if it is linked.

Everything seems great, no check engine light. Just seeing if anyone has had an issue. 2.5 auto transmission 109,000 miles.

Thanks fellas.

It's raining like crazy and I'm getting water on the passenger floor. I have rubber all-weather floor mats and I can see water running down the mat starting up high where the mat is under the dash.

It's winter so I am not using the AC so it can't likely be condensation from the evaporator but I've been reading of all kinds of plugs in this line or that line and looking for some ideas.

I suspect water is running down the windshield like it is supposed to do and then due to some kind of plug outside finding it's way into the cab of the car. Maybe the evaporator line is also plugged and the water from outside is finding its way into the evaporator unit and due to plugged drain line, flowing over and running down my floor mat.

I guess I would like to figure out if I am likely dealing with two plugged lines or just one plugged line. Anyone with experience on this kind of issue.