ean611

Just a note, 08's are very different than 05-07s.

The valve body has much less parts on it, and is heavily computer controlled. ClimberD still thinks he can make improvements, but it won't be as easy as we'd hoped.

I have the kit. I know they should be apples and oranges, but I have all the parts. If I figure it out, great, otherwise, I'm out not much.

Considering I need something to help my tranny, I'll try to take a look.

I'm looking for the transmission rebuild manual for the car, maybe I can find some valve body info in there.

This is all great info.

Ideally, I'll have enough info to know where to drill on mine when I get the parts.

I spent several hours last night (while watching that stupid Angelina Jolie movie 'Salt') tracing the 350Z valve body. It's going to be a pain in the butt because there are two versions of the top valve body half. They direct fluid differently. But I am making slow/steady progress. Usually something stops being as impressive once you develop an understanding of it, but valve bodies are FAR more impressive to me now than when I started. The fact that people can engineer this type of thing just blows my mind. That these types of things could be designed and made 30 years ago, is beyond jaw-dropping.

 

For the electronics guys out there, think of a valve body as a jumbled set of relays, resistors and capacitors. Just instead of electric current, it's hydraulic current.

The solenoids are the magnetic switches in the relays. These solenoids use very little fluid to move valves. Some of the solenoids send fluid through a passageway that has a restrictor plate the size of a pinhole (like a resistor).

These valves are the switches within the relays. They are opened or closed with little energy, and they control significant amounts of fluid flow (in most cases). The shift valves, when in their 'closed circuit' flowing position, will direct fluid from the fluid pump up to the clutch packs, clamping them and causing certain gear ratios to be achieved.

 

There are functions within the valve body that perform accumulator duties, which basically dampens a gear change.

 

There is a lot more to it than that. Just as an electronics schematic can become very complicated, so do these valve bodies. There are 2 or 3 valves per solenoid, if you want to play averages. There is a list of what each valve is named, but there is no diagram to reference the name to the location of each valve. So that is what I am figuring out right now. The good news is all the RE5R05A variants including the 5eat use the same assortment of valves (so far as I have seen), so once I define or map each valve's function, it should be fairly simple to figure out the other valve bodies.

 

Interestingly, there are 2 passageways that feed the direct clutch. Normally it's just one per clutch patch. One feeds pressure to the inside of the piston, one to the outside of the piston. The 350Z TransGo instructions say to tap in a restrictor orifice into the small side direct clutch actuator, which serves the function of reducing fluid flow to actuate the direct clutch. In short, TransGo took direct action to soften engagement of the direct clutch, which is what makes the familiar shift shock from 1st to 2nd in some cases. It also would soften downshifting from 5th to 4th, but that is far less of a concern. In doing their modifications, they probably upped pressures and flows to many parts of the transmission such that it was not proportional to all clutches, and had to be lessened at the direct clutch to make everything reasonably balanced.

So to follow this, if drilling the holes makes up-shifting "better" but comes with an associated negative on another down-shift....wouldn't it make sense to not drill and just use the physical parts? Maybe that's a dumb question?

Awfully nice of you to guinea pig their own R&D considering they haven't acknowledged knowing the difference between the 05-07 and 08-09 variants. Best of luck, hope it works out so you don't have to rinse and repeat

Worst case, I'm going to see what I can find. I'll do zero drilling unless I'm sure I know how to install this. Plus, I need a shift kit....what choices do I have? I'd rather not shred my clutch packs.

according to the first page of this thread (down the very bottom of the first post):

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/floating-5eat-valve-body-ipt-vb-mod-110180.html

 

IPT claims VB is the same 05-07 and 08-09 has their own... not sure how this applies to your situation, eitan.

This is why I need to document the install. Hopefully I won't throw a code

If it's for an 07 it should work for 08 and 09?

I thought the 5EATs were the same 05-06 and 07-09?

This may be the case. But from their perspective, the only way to find out is to validate. Also, I thought the 05-07 was the same, and 08-09 was different, but I could be wrong about that...

No idea on costs, that's all TBD

Instructions are for Subaru, but may not be complete for 2008. I'm digging out my good digital camera for this install, have to photograph any difference we find.

I'm GETTING A TRANSGO KIT!!!! (i just heard from them)

I need to photograph any differences between the instructions I get and what I take out of my 2008. Bottom line, this kit is real.

ClimberD, they sounded like they expect this kit to be done by hobbyists, so that makes your mod service very helpful to everyone, plus, you may have instructions to work with.

I was also very upset at IPT, but after giving it some time I now feel that the burden has been and remains on US the enthusiasts to do out own homework and be accountable to the choices we make. The IPT VB mod was a virtual mandatory mod for a while as it was the only plug and play service to up line pressure to hold more power. IPT did nothing wrong. Perhaps not what any of us want to think, but the responsibility has always been solely on our own shoulders to make the right choices. There are a million shops out there like IPT that want a lot of money to do something simple. $150 oil changes, $400 transmission flushes, $1500 to repair a scratched bumper, $20k race engines. The burden and responsibility is on us, not these shop owners.

+1

I agree wholeheartedly. Awaiting on pins and needles your 08-09 analysis. I'd love a full TransGo kit before I shred my clutch packs.

I just spoke with TransGo. They took my number and will hopefully call when they have more of the Legacy GT shift kit together. The issue is that they're working on an OEM transmission issue for another party, and they're going to try to get back to our transmission in 3-4 weeks.

The Jatco RE5R05A is almost identical with minor differences, but the big issue is getting instructions so that shops don't break the valve body during the process.

This could probably make the install much easier, since official instructions are coming from Transgo. I'm sure many of us (myself included) would love a service to install the Transgo kit.

Subscribed. I have a stock 08 VB and I need this mod... (transgo)

Any chance once this is finalized, I could pay for plans? I'd love to get this done locally so I don't have to have my car off the road for a week+

Actually I just wanted it because it was quiet, and it was rated more efficient than others - at the time.

Quiet is a great reason. I hate noise in my office. I just have had issues with power supplies, and yeah....it's amazing what you learn about them on my end.

Decent power supplies ftw! I love my Enermax Modu82+ power supply.

The truth is, coming from a computer hardware engineer (EE) is this: virtually all consumer supplies are junk. You buy something that claims 25-50% more power than you need, and forget about it. Brand is almost irrelevant. Just make sure you get something with a big fan that doesn't sound like a jet plane.

All those fancy supplies are rolling the dice. Just get one that has the features you need (modular is nice to prevent extra cabling littering a build, low noise etc), and make sure it's the cheapest that meets your requirements. Any other money spent is wasted.

Not sure where you get your "data".

 

PC power supplies can be exponentially more stable than any automotive environment. But as with any electronics, you get what you pay for. Still, ATX specification calls for no more than 5% fluctuation of voltage, which means 12V would be in the 11.4 to 12.6V range both idle and under load. So for any PC power supply to be sold as an ATX power supply (pretty much the most common type), it has to adhere to these standards within its rated load.

 

An el-cheapo model scavenged from a cheap case would be a POS, but still within this range. And a third-party power supply from say Seasonic, PC Power & Cooling (OCZ), Enermax, or top-end of the Asus line would be extremely stable. As an example, here's a review they did of the power supply I use in my PC: http://www.guru3d.com/article/pc-power-cooling-silencer-910-psu-review/7. This power supply hardly moved voltage at all when going from idle to load (about 0.1V change for 12V).

I work for a computer company. If you think 5% is all you'll see, you've got another thing coming. The consumer brands you quote are all commodity vendors, and their names mean nothing. The real names are companies like Etasis, Delta and Aztek to name a few.

Just because ATX calls for it does not mean everything behaves nicely. The brand names you list do not produce power supplies. They OEM them from one of the big vendors, and cost is a big concern. You have no validation that they can support the wattage they claim, or that they didn't underspec parts in critical areas.

Just as an example, I've seen power supplies (not mentioning vendor to protect the guilty) where the standby power was rated for a certain amount, but if you looked at the design, the parts were rated for half current required. This means that early power supply failure on 5v standby is/was common on that design. I'm in the server space, where things are far more expensive than the consumer.

Bottom line, for automotive, a PC supply will probably be fine for development, but don't think they're that accurate until you make your own measurements under idle and load. Also don't expect that in the consumer space you'll have any consistency between supplies, you pay a lot of money, and have to buy large quantities to get anything like that.

I second that. A PC's power supply is regulated voltage to very tight tolerances. To power one on while you're working, short the green wire (ps-on) to any ground wire (black). Better yet, make a switch for it.

 

Keep in mind that some power supply units won't power on unless they have a decent among of draw on them. If that's the case, hook up a spare hard drive or old motherboard first.

If you think they're well regulated....well....yeah....you don't want to see the data I have. (A lot of them are trash)

They'll work well enough for a car, as your car varies between 11.6V and 14.4V.

To turn on a power supply like that, you have to ground PS_EN pin. There should be a ground right next to it on a standard ATX connector. There shouldn't be any current draw issues, just make sure you pick the +12 rail. Most of them have at least 10-20A ratings, which should be fine with any development work this needs.

was it after market? ^ i always look for a scoop to spot the gts

I was behind him the whole time. Couldn't see the scoop.

Did see the directional indicators on the side mirrors though.

Followed a black GT wagon with shaved markings and tint on Elm st Framingham -->Landham RD Sudbury --> Rt 20 sudbury --> Goodman's hill rd sudbury

You turned left on 27, and almost got creamed by a silver Camry that ran a red light.

Is it sad that the first thing that I noticed (GT wise) was the exhaust?