nicd Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I am really pissed off about the attitude of Subaru on this. As some of you may know I am trying to obtain dampning specs on the NA Legacy GT BP/BL. Well it seems that this information is considered confidential by Subaru. They refuse to get me the information. This just sends me throu the roof. I just purchased a car from them I feel it is my right as a consummer to be able to obtain any information about the vehicle spec that I want. What is the big secret, its not like I am about to copy them and start a paralel market. I am seriously thinking about escalating this, as i feel there is no justification in withholding this information. Can anyone help me understand the Subaru Logic behind this? :evil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC GT Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I thought they were secretive about all their suspension specs. If they weren't, how could they stop every aftermarket company around from marketing Spec B parts, STi parts, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicd Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 No that resoning is rather for a small home outfit. Hell if you wanted to pump out copies buy an original and then do your test and you will get all the specs. I just do not buy it . But again my loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 They're probably wondering of what value the information is to you? I sent the same question(s) to Subaru, about strut valving rates, spring rates, and manufacturer. They said "not available, sorry." Such is life. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Not to defend SoA, but I imagine they treat certain things as "propriatary." I know other companies could reverse engineer it, and they probably want them to do that, rather than just divulge the info. I agree that it would be a nice thing to know, but it's going to be tough to get it. About the only thing I could suggest is to get a Legacy GT damper and take it/send it to a shock place like Truechoice and have them put it on a shock dyno. Oh, the other thing is that you might not be in the "right place" for this kind of question. I imagine if you could somehow reach someone in R&D or suspension design, you might have a better shot at finding out than by going through the "front door." For the gatekeepers, I'm sure the information is "unavailable" to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicd Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 Yeah I figuerd that much at this point in time I will wait to see if the info comes in from one of our many collaborators but if not I will have no other choice than to get thses suckers on a damper dynometer. But really it is a pretty weak excuse to say they are worried about reverse engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 [quote name='nicd']Yeah I figuerd that much at this point in time I will wait to see if the info comes in from one of our many collaborators but if not I will have no other choice than to get thses suckers on a damper dynometer. But really it is a pretty weak excuse to say they are worried about reverse engineering.[/quote] I don't necessarily disagree with you, but since I have been working in R&D in the scientific field for some time I can say that there is a lot of concerns about releasing infomation about developing or newly developed projects. Although they could be reverse engineered by someone with knowledge very easily.. it's likely the reason that they are leaving you in the cold. Seems kinda silly to me though, don't know what use this "secret information" would be to anyone other than aftermarket parts makers, in which case aftermarket manufacturers will only increase the value of the legacy to gear heads and those looking for a "tuner" car so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC GT Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 It's not that hard to figure out why the numbers are a secret. Subaru has spent countless yen and hours developing the car, the suspension, tuning it, etc. Subaru came up with specific specs that it feels maximizes the Leg for different purposes. Subaru knows the optimum suspension settings --- everyone else is just guessing. Why, then, would they give out their specs to the general public so that Tein, Cusco, Eibach, Koni and whoever else can say that they can offer Spec B or STi settings? The mystique of STi and the Spec B would be lost, and some people would just buy low end models of the Legacy and upgrade (instead of buying the Spec B). Now, even if Tein or Cusco could tune a Legacy as good as, or even better than Subaru, they could never really make that claim because handling at that level is so subjective. But, if they had the Subaru specs, they could flat out represent that they can make a Legacy handle as good as STi can. I mean, you're asking why they are keeping the info a secret. I'm assuming the person you asked didn't know the answers and probably didn't have access to the answers. But even if he/she did have access, Subaru would probably ask itself what use you have for any of their specs, and to what benefit is it to give you that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Look, as with all big secrets, the "enemy" (being tuners, other car makers) can easily measure these things. The only people in the dark is the average joe. It's just like the cold war. Yes, somebody at subaru probably believes they are doing to "right thing" by keeping it secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicd Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 Honestly I do understand where they come from as I myself am a manufacturer and have also applied for patents. But I just think that if I have a valid VIN they owe me the information, but anyway I will give up this route and just get the dampers tested on a damper dynometer and thats it. Then I will release the info just thought they could have saved me the cost. Whatever, as Kevin said such is life. As much as I do love Subaru and thier fondness for research. I Understand that I am just another sold unit nothing more nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicd Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 Well I do not want them to give me the STI/Spec B specs but the stock GT specs. Anyway the Bilstein will probably go onto a damper dynometer maybe. But yeah I gues it is none of my business but they will not keep the secret forever. I will jsut forget about it install the Spec B and see how it rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC GT Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 [quote name='nicd']. . .As much as I do love Subaru and thier fondness for research. I Understand that I am just another sold unit nothing more nothing less.[/quote] :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4_Maniac Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 [quote name='nicd']Honestly I do understand where they come from as I myself am a manufacturer and have also applied for patents. But I just think that if I have a valid VIN they owe me the information, but anyway I will give up this route and just get the dampers tested on a damper dynometer and thats it. Then I will release the info just thought they could have saved me the cost. Whatever, as Kevin said such is life. As much as I do love Subaru and thier fondness for research. I Understand that I am just another sold unit nothing more nothing less.[/quote] SING IT BROTHER!! I AM WITH YOU 100%!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterCooled Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Have you ever asked a Subaru mechanic. Maybe they have or can get the specs.??!! Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Subaru is one of the best companies in the world for witholding information. As annoying as it is, I think it can be only a good thing. For example the upcoming BMW M5, you can find out anything you want about the car, nothing is secretive, that means there are plenty of internal leaks and we all know what that can do to companies. I have been at Subaru Australia, Subaru Technical international for months trying to find out about the upcoming STi GT. Not a word, not even a hint that it evens exists. I have offered to put money down, their response, how can you put money down on something that doesnt even exist. They are very good at hiding and witholding information or HeadOffice just doesnt release ANYTHING. They wont even confirm if a MT is coming to OZ..... now that is sad. As the GT is only brand new, Subaru are trying to protect STi parts and other FRIENDS lets call them before releasing all the secrets out to the world. Within 12 months the information you are after will be on the net....... And thats a given. Till then happy hitting yr head against a brick wall, believe you me, I've been doing it for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdG35killer Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 that kinda sucks, then it'll take longer for good reliable suspension parts to come about and give others feedback on consumer testing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Yes that is no doubt true and back you 100% on yr comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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