rear camber issues

[bihsoccer14]

i have bc racing coilovers on my 05 legacy gt, what do i have to get to adjust the rear camber i can do the fronts. but no the rears

[Justin case]

Whiteline KCA399 bushings with an eccentric so you can adjust or Whiteline KTA124 comes with four arms to adjust rear toe easier and rear camber.

[bihsoccer14]

thank you would the perrin ones work ?

[mr.hicksta]

The Perrin ones will work if you can find a set. You may want to shoot SBT a PM about his

[jfg22557]

have to bump this because the thread title is appropriate for my situation and I dont see a need to start another.

 

I have the KCA399 however i'm having issues adjusting rear camber.

When I brought the car to a well respected alignment guy about a half hour away from me, he told me he couldnt even get the rears into the farthest most positive oem camber spec let alone adjust for the slightly more negative I was looking for.

While standing next to him, he showed me on the passenger side how while adjusting the eccentric bolt progressively more negative, the control arm itslef in between the visible ends of the bushing would eventually bind metal-on-metal with the knuckle due to too small of a gap being present.

 

Note: the drivers side didnt seem to have AS little clearance, but still not enough in his opinion to be comfortable.

 

Does this make any sense to you guys? Ive never heard of an issue like this with the KCA399. Could my upper control arm(s) be bent in a way thats causing the clearance between them and the knuckles (specifically on passenger side) to be too tight?

 

What do you suspension guru's suggest may be the issue?

 

Help's much appreciated,

-Jake G.

 

also, going to try to get some pics when Ive got it on the lift hopefully tuesday.

[Justin case]

I can verify that,I'm not sure they touch when its on the ground but when its in the air the eccentric touches the knuckle. I've decided I'm just going to adjust them about straight up so it wont touch,tighten the hell out of it and just buy the rear arms.

[bihsoccer14]

i bought the bolts they helped out alot just need to get an alignment

[jamal]

While standing next to him, he showed me on the passenger side how while adjusting the eccentric bolt progressively more negative, the control arm itslef in between the visible ends of the bushing would eventually bind metal-on-metal with the knuckle due to too small of a gap being present.

 

Note: the drivers side didnt seem to have AS little clearance, but still not enough in his opinion to be comfortable.

 

That's kind of odd. I put a set of those in last year at some point and don't remember having that problem. I would just grind a little material off. It is probably mostly casting flash that is in the way.

[jfg22557]

Justin and Jamal, appreciate the responses.

 

I can verify that,I'm not sure they touch when its on the ground but when its in the air the eccentric touches the knuckle. I've decided I'm just going to adjust them about straight up so it wont touch,tighten the hell out of it and just buy the rear arms.

That was certainly a thought that went through my mind, but while trying to picture the load in that area with all 4 on the ground, I cant necessarily see how it wouldn't be effectively bringing those two areas CLOSER together. But Im not sure, maybe Im picturing it wrong. And it doesnt look like the bolt itself is touching the knuckle, but rather the material of the control arm within that area.

But what can you expect trying to play around with rear camber on a car that wasnt originally intended to have that be adjustable (without the use of full-blown aftermarket adjustable control arms, aka the KTA124 you eluded to, which I cant really justify spending the $500 on at the moment).

 

That's kind of odd. I put a set of those in last year at some point and don't remember having that problem. I would just grind a little material off. It is probably mostly casting flash that is in the way.

Thats what I was considering to be my best course of action. However for fear of decreasing the structural integrity of the control arm and/or knuckle (depending on where I grind away a bit of material from) Ive yet to pull the trigger.

 

Theres certainly plenty of oxidation in that area, so Im also thinking maybe a little light grinding/resurfacing could give some more wiggle room as well. And now that you say it, I do remember noticing the ridge of casting flash in the center on the arm, maybe getting rid of that and the rust will be enough.

 

Will let you guys know.

[jfg22557]

Before

 

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/jfg22557/IMAG0092.jpg

 

 

After (a little exfoliation:))

 

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/jfg22557/IMAG0094.jpg

 

Keep in mind that the eccentric is not in the same position in the "after" picture as it was in the "before", so the clearance difference isnt directly comparable. My goal here is to show the amount of material removed and from where.

[Heedz]

We were able to get a channel lock on it and rotate it although it was small adjustments at a time. Got it from -2.4 to -1.0

[Metal2You]

I figured I should share my experience here so others avoid making the same mistake.

 

Do not buy the Whiteline KTA124 kit that includes bars for adjusting the rear camber, or any other adjustable rear camber arms with bushings for that matter. The Perrin bars with spherical joints are the only acceptable camber bars that I know of, it is a shame they stopped making them.

 

The long version of the story is that I purchased a set of adjustable camber from 4BoxParts years ago. When I took my car in to get the alignment set at EFI logics in Bethyl, CT the guy there explained that the bushings were too soft and had a lot of flex. So he set my camber a little more negative in the rear and explained that I should expect a lot of movement and loading on the bushings through corners.

 

He recommended I get the Perrin bars, but since they aren't made any more I got the Whiteline bars instead. Now the Whiteline camber bars have the same problem. The bushings are too soft and camber can not be properly set. Even worse, the camber constantly changes as the road surface changes, resulting in dynamic toe changes in the rear which cause the steering wheel to push and pull itself while driving.

 

I've seen one person say the Perrin bars wore out too, resulting in a lot of slop and play in the spherical joint. I'm not sure if there is a good solution for adjustable rear camber on these cars. It seems all the aftermarket camber bars aren't up to the task.

 

The stock bars have bushings as well, so I wonder if they would fail over time too. I have the Megan Racing coilovers installed with only a slight drop in ride height vs stock. I imagine the coilovers must be putting more demand on these camber bars, resulting in the problems I've been having.

 

I'm so sick of this that I'm probably going to go back to stock springs, shocks, camber bars, everything.

[TcDavis]

Before

 

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/jfg22557/IMAG0092.jpg

 

 

After (a little exfoliation:))

 

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/jfg22557/IMAG0094.jpg

 

Keep in mind that the eccentric is not in the same position in the "after" picture as it was in the "before", so the clearance difference isnt directly comparable. My goal here is to show the amount of material removed and from where.

 

Why did you have to shave material off?

 

Tc Davis

[Justin case]

 

I have the KCA399 however i'm having issues adjusting rear camber.

When I brought the car to a well respected alignment guy about a half hour away from me, he told me he couldnt even get the rears into the farthest most positive oem camber spec let alone adjust for the slightly more negative I was looking for.

While standing next to him, he showed me on the passenger side how while adjusting the eccentric bolt progressively more negative, the control arm itslef in between the visible ends of the bushing would eventually bind metal-on-metal with the knuckle due to too small of a gap being present.

 

Note: the drivers side didnt seem to have AS little clearance, but still not enough in his opinion to be comfortable.

 

[jamal]

I figured I should share my experience here so others avoid making the same mistake.

 

Do not buy the Whiteline KTA124 kit that includes bars for adjusting the rear camber, or any other adjustable rear camber arms with bushings for that matter. The Perrin bars with spherical joints are the only acceptable camber bars that I know of, it is a shame they stopped making them.

 

The long version of the story is that I purchased a set of adjustable camber from 4BoxParts years ago. When I took my car in to get the alignment set at EFI logics in Bethyl, CT the guy there explained that the bushings were too soft and had a lot of flex. So he set my camber a little more negative in the rear and explained that I should expect a lot of movement and loading on the bushings through corners.

 

He recommended I get the Perrin bars, but since they aren't made any more I got the Whiteline bars instead. Now the Whiteline camber bars have the same problem. The bushings are too soft and camber can not be properly set. Even worse, the camber constantly changes as the road surface changes, resulting in dynamic toe changes in the rear which cause the steering wheel to push and pull itself while driving.

 

I've seen one person say the Perrin bars wore out too, resulting in a lot of slop and play in the spherical joint. I'm not sure if there is a good solution for adjustable rear camber on these cars. It seems all the aftermarket camber bars aren't up to the task.

 

The stock bars have bushings as well, so I wonder if they would fail over time too. I have the Megan Racing coilovers installed with only a slight drop in ride height vs stock. I imagine the coilovers must be putting more demand on these camber bars, resulting in the problems I've been having.

 

I'm so sick of this that I'm probably going to go back to stock springs, shocks, camber bars, everything.

 

Can't say I agree with this. The urethane in the links is stiffer than group n rubber and doesn't deflect anywhere near as much as the bushings in the upper arm, trailing link, and subframe mounts. Those other things are going to be responsible for much more movement and dynamic alignment change. Unless you have solid mounts and spherical bearings everywhere else they are going to do you a lot of good by giving you a better range of adjustment and less deflection.

 

It is also not usually a great idea to put solid mounts and spherical bearings on a street car especially if you want a quiet and comfortable ride. Spherical bearings are not meant to be put on a street car and driving for tens of thousands of miles. If it's a serious competition car, yes, you want everything solid so that the shock and spring and tire are the only things moving, but you have to realize that bearings are expensive and tend to have a much shorter lifespan that bushings, especially when they are not sealed/booted.

 

The other thing is that your coilovers are not going to put much more load on any of the links. The only thing they could put a reasonable amount of extra load into are the strut towers, wheel bearings, upright, and tires. A stickier tire on the otherhand will put more load into the links due to the added grip and higher cornering ability.

 

 

Also realized why I didn't have problems with the offset camber bushings- lowered an outback a bunch (but did remove all the spacers) and had to take camber out.