Ej22-phase 1 engine- a few questions

[JSMskater]

Hey everybody

 

I'm using a phase one ej22 engine for a swap into a VW bus.

 

I got the motor and it was leaking from the left headgasket, so I tore it down and I'm getting ready to put it back together but I had 2 questions:

 

first, I found 2 small deposits of rust dust and the water jackets all have a light film of orangish powder. The surfaces where it meets the headgaskets look fine. I don't think the corrosion is that bad, but I don't have much experience with water cooled engines (mostly air-cooled vw's and motorcycles up until now) and so I don't know whats considered "bad" corrosion. I'll post up a pic to help clarify.

 

the other question I had is, (and again, I'm used to boxer VW engines) when I removed the cylinder heads, the valves were all closed on one head, but the other head had one cylinder with the intakes open and the other with the exhausts open. I was under the impression that putting the motor to the cam timing marks made it so all the valves would be closed? I just want to make sure its normal, and not that the valves are stuck open or something. Again I can post a pic to clarify in a few minutes.

 

TIA!

[monkeyposeur]

The orangish powder is something that I have found in my EJ22Es & 22Ts. Don't worry about it too much. Flush the block out as much as you can with a hose. Use a scotchbrite pad as well as carefully using a sharp razor blade to scrape your head gasket mating surfaces. You won't be able to completely remove the head gasket impressions, but get it as clean as you can.

 

I have removed three sets of EJ22 heads, and none of them had any valves that were open. Your EJ22E has hydraulic lash adjusters (HLA)on the rocker assemblies. It sounds like yours may be stuck open. I would remove the rocker assembly/valve covers and rocker assembly and check each HLA for movement, and bleed them. You can pull out the HLAs from the rocker assembly with a pliers and a rag wrapped around the HLA. To bleed them, submerge them if oil and use an awl or 1mm allen wrench to push in the ball check valve. Then squish them open and closed in 1 second increments until all air bubbles are expelled and there is no longer any movement. Follow the FSM procedure to remove and install the rocker assembly, removing and tightening the bolts in the proper order. Do not torque them past 12 ft lbs or you will strip the bolts. Even if this doesn't fix your problem, now is the time to bleed them. It's easy and better to do it now than later.

[JSMskater]

The orangish powder is something that I have found in my EJ22Es & 22Ts. Don't worry about it too much. Flush the block out as much as you can with a hose. Use a scotchbrite pad as well as carefully using a sharp razor blade to scrape your head gasket mating surfaces. You won't be able to completely remove the head gasket impressions, but get it as clean as you can.

 

I have removed three sets of EJ22 heads, and none of them had any valves that were open. Your EJ22E has hydraulic lash adjusters (HLA)on the rocker assemblies. It sounds like yours may be stuck open. I would remove the rocker assembly/valve covers and rocker assembly and check each HLA for movement, and bleed them. You can pull out the HLAs from the rocker assembly with a pliers and a rag wrapped around the HLA. To bleed them, submerge them if oil and use an awl or 1mm allen wrench to push in the ball check valve. Then squish them open and closed in 1 second increments until all air bubbles are expelled and there is no longer any movement. Follow the FSM procedure to remove and install the rocker assembly, removing and tightening the bolts in the proper order. Do not torque them past 12 ft lbs or you will strip the bolts. Even if this doesn't fix your problem, now is the time to bleed them. It's easy and better to do it now than later.

 

ok -- so sorry first off for not getting back to you but I only just found some time to work on the project. So here's where I'm at:

 

removed rocker arm assembly, and the valves closed on their own, so looks like your HLA theory was right.

 

so I removed the HLA's, and they're soaking now in a mixture of PB blaster and some carb cleaner, but I have a few questions about em.

 

- i put a poker in the bottom, and on the two I've attempted, the ball was VERY stuck, and now that I've pushed it down (after enough force, they broke free) they move back and forth relatively smoothly -- but I feel like they don't come back up as high as before.... did I break them?

 

so far, I can't get ANY of the ones I removed to move in or out on the valve end (the piston part), even holding the ball down. Its like they're all stuck in whatever position they're in when the motor last stopped. Is this common on engines that've been sitting a while?

 

Am I wasting my time trying to save these, or should I just buy all new ones?Even at 5$ each it gets expensive... Anything stronger I should try cleaning them with?

[monkeyposeur]

If you have some that are stuck and no longer move even with the ball pushed in they are bad and must be replaced.

 

As far as the ones where the plunger does not come up as high as before, as long as they lock up they are still useable. However, they may tick. I swapped a bunch of HLAs on my '95 with some used ones and the engine tick went away for a while, but it came back. It still runs just fine though.

 

I think the best solution would be to replace all of them, but like you said that gets expensive. I don't know if cleaning them will help. Just make sure that after you bleed them that you keep them in oil. I posted some shots of the factory service manual pages that deal with the HLAs here (page three of the thread): http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/1998-legacy-2-2l-timing-jumped-engine-gone-help-replacement-192029p3.html

[JSMskater]

If you have some that are stuck and no longer move even with the ball pushed in they are bad and must be replaced.

 

As far as the ones where the plunger does not come up as high as before, as long as they lock up they are still useable. However, they may tick. I swapped a bunch of HLAs on my '95 with some used ones and the engine tick went away for a while, but it came back. It still runs just fine though.

 

I think the best solution would be to replace all of them, but like you said that gets expensive. I don't know if cleaning them will help. Just make sure that after you bleed them that you keep them in oil. I posted some shots of the factory service manual pages that deal with the HLAs here (page three of the thread): http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/1998-legacy-2-2l-timing-jumped-engine-gone-help-replacement-192029p3.html

 

 

thanks -- I have the haynes but your FSM pages are much more detailed. I think the solution is to replace them all and be done with it -- I'm not trying to cheap out and have these random problems with a car so customized- I'm going to have plenty of those already. I found them online relatively cheaply- 4.67 ea. http://www.drivewire.com/vehicle/subaru-legacy/valve-lash-adjuster/ in case anyone else wants to know.

 

guess now I'll go and clean the heads and water jackets.

 

question: on the block, towards the bottom of the case, I can see the water jacket passages, and then underneath ovaloid passages that are a burnished copper color, smooth. They appear to be oil passages to me, but they're so dry I'm having doubts. Are these oil passages or just empty voids? I want to know what to block off with tape so I can clean the water jackets/passages and not get any water in the motor.

[monkeyposeur]

Sounds like oil passages to me. The larger spaces like you describe are more for vapors and blow by gasses I think.

 

Do you have the oil pan off? When my short lock was stripped I shot it with a hose and just made sure to let it dry for a couple days so when I buttoned it back up there wasn't any water. But taping parts off is a better idea.

 

Do you have any pics of your project van? I'd love to swap a subie block into a vw. I had a '73 fastback and it was a pos rustbucket. But it was my first car and I loved it. Rallied the crap out of it lol.

[subikid90]

Check out rockauto for those, they are even cheaper. Look for the 5% discount code online also

[JSMskater]

here's a shot of the bus from the back, it's almost completely untouched and original, and has very little in the way of body damage and almost zero rust. My entire conversion is going to be bolt in and will have no modifications done to the body. I plan on running a pair of radiators (these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-DUAL-CORE-2-ROW-RACING-RADIATOR-92-00-CIVIC-DEL-SOL-INTEGRA-EG9-EK9-EM1-/221024430500?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true#ht_4404wt_978) in the rear -- my biggest problem right now is those rads are the closest I've found to the size I need, but I still think I will need to rotate them 90* (on their sides, but still vertical) in order to fit the 14" tall by 18" wide space I have to work with. These guys in new zealand did what I'm attempting with an H6 3.0 and it works well, but I don't know the exact radiator, just that it came from a 90's honda (like the ones I posted above).

 

whew. porn.

http://i.imgur.com/7hFLuh.jpg

 

here's the motor after I cleaned it up -- it was BLACK AND FILTHY when I began let me tell you.

http://i.imgur.com/blswoh.jpg

 

heres a shot of the block, with the orange powder and some rust flakes on the case bolts. the ovaloid passages I mentioned earlier are below on the bottomish part of the block.

http://i.imgur.com/umlGHh.jpg

 

I don't have any shots of the head I cleaned up today, but I'll post it tomorrow. I managed to save 4 of the little lifters, but I'm going to replace them all and just keep these ones as backups.

 

thanks for the rockauto tip!

 

if you guys have rads (preferably aluminum) that you know would fit in that 14x18 space let me know... I keep finding things like 12x20 but I really need to keep it between 14" and 18" wide, and 16.5" is really pushing it.

[chardog1971]

just scored a 92 and plan to drive it for the winter. After that i plan to put engine in an 80 vannagon question is where does one get a radiator that doesnt require cutting into the body?

[JSMskater]

Hey guys -- project is moving along nicely but I had a question -- I have still not gotten the hydraulic lifters (just been poor) but I wanted to button up the block and put the head gaskets on to do the timing belt and water pump.

 

1) can I do that? leave the lifters and rockers out of the heads and still put it back together? or is it necessary to have them in there and pumped up to keep the cam from spinning?

 

2) if I can do that - do the gaskets go on dry or with some kind of sealer?

 

3) what is the recommended sealer for the water pump? also, the gasket I pulled off seemed metallic, but the one at the local store is thick cardboard. anyone know what the right one to use is?

 

thanks!!

[monkeyposeur]

You can install the heads without the rocker assemblies installed. Or just leave them in the heads. All it takes to get at them later is to remove he valve covers.

 

The valve cover gaskets don't need any sealant. Install them dry.

 

The papery gasket for the water pump is normal. I like to use a thin bead of RTV sealant such as permatex ultralight gray on each side of the paper gasket.

[JSMskater]

sorry I meant for the cyl head gaskets to the block, not the valve cover. dry or is there a sealer?

 

thanks for the other info!!

[monkeyposeur]

Install the HGs dry as well. There is a copper spray that some people use but I don't have any experience with it as well as varying opinions as to its merits.

 

Make sure the two mating surfaces are really clean of course. I used a sharp razor blade to get some of the stuck bits as well as a scotch brite pad to clean them.