Sebastian Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 What a headache! I called the gas station manager last week and told him about the situation. I was polite and didn't even have an accusatory tone, just asked what usually happens in this situation. He got defensive and told me that it couldn't be his gas that was the problem and that the most he could do is refund the price of my gas. I told him I would have a mechanic look at the car and get back to him. Had AAA tow the car to the local tire shop/mechanic last Thursday. Friday I called the place and they said they used a scanner and found that the crank sensor was throwing the error code. Told me they would have to order it, and it would be in on Monday. Didn't hear from them on Monday, called them on Tuesday and they told me it was due to come in that day. Called them Wednesday and they said they were working on it. Called them Thursday and they said that they put in the new sensor but that that didn't fix the problem. Told me they were short-handed and that they wouldn't be able to look at the car again until Tuesday! Called a Subaru Dealer in Lexington, KY yesterday (same Thursday) and set up my car getting towed there. Told the tire shop to put my old crank sensor back in and that I was having my car towed to the dealer. Mechanic TRIED to charge me for diagnostics, I pretty much laughed at him. Followed the tow truck to the dealer and told them the whole story. Today (Friday) the dealer called me and told me that half my tank was water. Charged me $494 dollars to drain the tank and flush the fuel system. They also gave me a fuel sample from my tank. Car now runs as good (if not better) than before. On my way home I called the gas station and asked if the manager was working tonight. They told me yes, I told the attendant that I talked to the manager last week about the situation and was coming in to talk to him. I arrive at the gas station and ask for the manager, cashier walks in the back for a minute and then comes out and tells me the manager left early and that I just missed him by 10 minutes. Said the manager should be in at noon tomorrow. Tomorrow I'll go up there (after calling to make sure he is in) and talk to the manager. If he doesn't pretty much write me a check on the spot, I'm calling corporate Shell, the county auditor, and looking into small claims court. While I'm waiting on things to get resolved, I think I'll print out about 50-100 flyers telling this story and post them on every bulletin board and electric pole in town. Think I have a pretty strong court case if it comes to that. A couple of days before buying gas there, I filled up my tank at another station and got an oil change immediately after, so I have a mileage recording from that fill up. Subaru obviously recorded the mileage when I had it towed to them. With that I can show that I filled my tank, drove enough miles to pretty much empty it, right before I filled up my tank at this Shell station. Then I have the tow receipt from it being towed the next day to the tire shop, and another tow receipt showing that it was towed to Subaru. I'm not a legal expert, but I think that pretty much proves the half a tank of water that was in my car came from this gas station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasejase Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Ugh... Sucks. When I'm at my pc tmrw, I will try to help you a bit. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiotrojan Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Here is the bottom line. If it was bad gas, there would be many other people w same problem. If there aren't many people w same problem you will have a tough case. Didn't I read recently where all the fuel supplied from louisville terminal has >10% ethanol by mistake and they were warning the public? Not sure if it's relative to your situation but FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Here is the bottom line. If it was bad gas, there would be many other people w same problem. If there aren't many people w same problem you will have a tough case. Didn't I read recently where all the fuel supplied from louisville terminal has >10% ethanol by mistake and they were warning the public? Not sure if it's relative to your situation but FYI. Don't think there is an "if" at this point. I saw a sample of the gas in a glass jar. Service manager shook it up, it foamed up, and then it cleary separated into two different liquids, just like it was before he shook it. Don't think it was "bad" gas as in it was bad from the supplier. I'm guessing I'm one of the few people in town that actually buys 93 octane. I'm no expert, but the 93 tank probably isn't well maintained and was allowed to run too low. So when I filled up on it, I got a lot of water off the bottom of the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasejase Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I used to handle liability claims from the stations end for many of years... There were sometimes just one or two claims that came forward from an isolated situation like this. Even when there is a "news worthy" issue, sometimes thats no more than 10 effected customers. Here are some tips to help you out, most of which i had mentioned before... You should have just brought it to the dealer first. The dealer is typically much more credible than a small mom and pop auto shop. Though your mechanic at your small shop is likely better - the dealer just carries more clout in a situation like this. They are basically deemed as near experts when it comes to subarus and how they operate. Plain & simple... You need to contact your state's version of the department of consumer protection (every state seems to call this something different). This should have been done sooner. They monitor these complaints, and sometimes will even send someone to the station to take a sample of their gas. This is likely a moot point at this time, since they have likely been through a few fill ups since this occured (i also worked at a gas station in high school ). However, its a step that you need to take to cross your t's and dot your i's. You may even be surprised when the state tells you that they have 2 other complaints from that station. You never know!! Since you have a sample of the gas, and it was given to you by the dealer, you can get it tested. There are labs (they don't typically charge a lot) like http://aflab.com/... They can tell you the water content, etc. You can likely call them and they can direct you to one in your own area. This is an option at this point. Also - keeo your sample safe and in your garage, etc. Chain of custody, and storage is important when possessing evidence. I would write the station a formal letter (send a copy regular mail, and a copy ceritfied). Placing them on notice of the claim, and outlining the allegation and the general damages. i would inform them in the letter that your Subaru dealer has verified the causation, and that you have placed the dept. of consumer protection on notice, and that you even have a sample of the gasoline. Recommend that they promptly notify their liability insurance carrier, and mention that you will eagerly await a call from their claim representative. If you have a friend or family member with an 'esquire' (attorney) after their name, this is where you ask them for a favor. If not, write it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 How can a station prevent bad gas? How do we know it wasn't the suppliers fault? I know condensation and temp changes can cause tank sweating and water build up- but it cant be THAT common? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasejase Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 you dont know if its the suppliers fault. In a situation like this, as a consumer - you typically place the person or entity on notice where you had a direct relationship. If that entity feels it was someone elses responsibility - then they will place their distributor, etc on notice. In turn, you get the big time delays, and corporate BS that we're all familiar with. Aka - The process. Lol The gas world is interesting. The supplier doesnt do anything to alter the product. They simply show up at the docks and grab the gas from the big tanks... There are sometimes a handful of pokers in this kinda fire. Product liablity is strict liability (in most states at least). Which the OP has going for him. I don't think its that common, otherwise there would be more reports in general. However, i think its a sweet spot blend of: the car, gas at hand, existing condition of the storage tank, and how full the storage tank was at the station. Just goin on my experiences here... This wasnt a common issue i handled, but i have handled about 15-20 of these over my career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwm5094 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 What the hell is the deal with all of these 'bad gas' threads around here? I'm not saying anything one way or another, but seriously how often is gas actually 'bad' these days? You don't have to worry about stirred up tanks anymore with filtration systems etc., and if you are going to a top tier gas station (i.e. Shell, in this case) you should have any worries since they have higher standards with their gas anyway. I'm not saying that gas CAN'T be the issue here, but honestly, isn't it the LEAST likely of all the culprits mentioned in this thread and others??? If I'm way off base, please set me straight, by all means. By that I mean please provide evidence of what the hell constitutes 'bad gas' and what the causes are and what the likelihood of encountering such a thing is. I agree with you. But I once did get a bad tank of gas. I put a bottle of octane booster in the tank and boom! Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasejase Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 And as a 'claimant' the burden of proof is 100% on you... You have the duty to prove your claim. Each jurisdiction, carrier, and entity will likely respond to this type of situation differently. In most cases (from my experience), if you make a reasonable claim with reasonable proof - the claim is accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 So for the best settlement i suppose finding a popular chain and going public with it would render mucho dinero? Sorry im thinking too american here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 could be bad gas for sure, could be failing fuel pump from overheating due to running on really low fuel level this is actually not a problem on newer cars because of the bucket the return from the rail fills the bucket so the fuel pump is always submerged. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasejase Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 So for the best settlement i suppose finding a popular chain and going public with it would render mucho dinero? Sorry im thinking too american here. Lol. You would still have the issue of burden of proof. Yeah. The good ol american way. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Talked to manager today. He said he has had a few people call in. Appraently the lid to the high octane tank was cracked and allowed water in. He said to turn in receipt and repair bill and he would forward it to his insurance company. Said it shouldn't be a problem getting reimbursed. Jase anything I should be leary of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasejase Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 That's good news! I would still write him a formal letter, certified mail. I would also still place the state Department of consumer protection, or your states equivalent, on notice. Just to be safe. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 That's good news! I would still write him a formal letter, certified mail. I would also still place the state Department of consumer protection, or your states equivalent, on notice. Just to be safe. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Would that be the Better Business Bureau or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasejase Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Something else. No dept of consumer protection in your state per my quick search. I would do the states attny generals office or commerce. Call the attorney generals office and ask first. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiotrojan Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Just like I said, there had to be other customers experiencing the same thing if it was bad gas. I have over 30 years experience in the convenience store industry, so I kind of know what I'm talking about. It is pretty much impossible (possible, but very rare and weird circumstances would have to be present) for ONE customer to get bad gas. And while we're on the topic, let me dispel another rumor. It really doesn't matter how much fuel is in the underground storage tank. As you all probably know, water is much heavier than gas and will always be at the bottom of the tank. The submersible pumps pull fuel from a height of a few inches from the bottom of the tank. Let's say 5". Just like in the OP's string, for a variety of reasons water can make it's way into the tank, and is regularly monitored and removed as necessary. It is rare that a retailer will allow the water to get even close to the point where it is drawn out to the dispensers. My point is that if there are less than 5" of water in the tank, the water is NOT going to be sucked into your car, REGARDLESS of if there is 1,000 gallons of 10,000 gallons in the underground storage tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiotrojan Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Oh and keep us posted Sebastian, because the others came forward, I am sure your situation will be handled promptly and completely by the retailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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