TheOneDoubleN Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Then im failing to understand here. There are three possibilities: The dyno is not calibrated properly or was done with the wrong parameters The Op's car has 0% drivetrain loss The Op's engine came with 20% more power than any other lgt engine Given the simplest explanation is generally the correct one, im going to stick with #1 unless someone can show me actual evidence that says otherwise..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Both our website and the map notes for our Stage 1 93 octane mapping claim a 14%HP / 30%TQ as measured on our dyno at the Surgeline location. It's very important to note that even the same brand dyno will read differently in different locations, therefore peak power numbers at our SoCal location can not be compared with our Surgeline location. But, the percentage gains will roughly hold true. The percentages listed aren't even close to his results. Where's the 14% hp increase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL21376 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Factory freak??? LOL Dynos for these cars are all over the place. This isn't the first stock LGT to put down those numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Did they put an STI motor in there accidentally . I know the OP is not going to pay for another run on a different dyno, but if I saw the same types of numbers confirmed elsewhere then I would believe the factory freak theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL21376 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Did they put an STI motor in there accidentally . I know the OP is not going to pay for another run on a different dyno, but if I saw the same types of numbers confirmed elsewhere then I would believe the factory freak theory. I wouldn't pay for another dyno either! It's the gains that matter. Page 1 of this thread has a graph of several stock LGTs, one making similar power. Also efi logics website has a dyno database you can look through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I've seen stock LGT dyno's, and believe me I've looked through EFI's terrific database. And none of the graphs on page 1 compare to the OP's results... I think we're going to need to agree to disagree again here CL, or I see this becoming an unending debate with no real evidence to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Either way, we always come back to the point that if you're doing all your runs on the same dyno, who cares what the number is, it's the change interval that matters. And to quote myself in response to the "gains are all that matters" comment....already stated on page 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Sorry to derail this thread. Just trying to make some sense of it all. You and me both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBB Tuning Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The percentages listed aren't even close to his results. Where's the 14% hp increase? The percentage gains listed on our website are using 93 octane maps with 93 octane fuel. 91 and 91ACN octane levels maps will make less power as evidenced by the dyno results in this thread. We wish 91ACN maps could have bigger horsepower gains, but the fuel sure isn't helping us! Then im failing to understand here. There are three possibilities: The dyno is not calibrated properly or was done with the wrong parameters The Op's car has 0% drivetrain loss The Op's engine came with 20% more power than any other lgt engine Given the simplest explanation is generally the correct one, im going to stick with #1 unless someone can show me actual evidence that says otherwise..... The dyno is a tool to measure deltas. Even two dynos of the same brand, in the same room, with the same car will even read a bit differently from each other. To accurately measure these deltas, baseline dyno runs are extremely important. When comparing the absolute peak power numbers, there can be an almost infinite number of variables to make the comparison futile: weather, dyno brand, dyno setup within a shop, correction factors, smoothing, etc. Lots of people say "that dyno reads high" or "that dyno reads low", but I always wonder which dyno reads just right! But when it comes down to it, the performance increase is what really matters. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ian, Right I didn't realize he was using 91ACN. I agree with your assessment entirely regarding dyno results in general. What I don't like hearing is people showing unreasonably high numbers as fact. This seems like one of those cases where the dyno is reading high, but then you have other people that swear "wow, he must have a freakishly powerful engine", unlike the thousands of others produced just like it. So who's right? I personally have dyno'ed my car with both 91 and 93 at EDO and seen the difference, and the OP's absolute numbers on 91 octane just plain don't make sense to me (the deltas definitely do), that's all....I'd love to believe them, but having econometrics and statistics in my educational background, and doing this as my line of work, the data just doesn't click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tytek Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Ian, Right I didn't realize he was using 91ACN. I agree with your assessment entirely regarding dyno results in general. What I don't like hearing is people showing unreasonably high numbers as fact. This seems like one of those cases where the dyno is reading high, but then you have other people that swear "wow, he must have a freakishly powerful engine", unlike the thousands of others produced just like it. So who's right? I personally have dyno'ed my car with both 91 and 93 at EDO and seen the difference, and the OP's absolute numbers on 91 octane just plain don't make sense to me (the deltas definitely do), that's all....I'd love to believe them, but having econometrics and statistics in my educational background, and doing this as my line of work, the data just doesn't click. You just said it yourself... the delta is all we are concerned about. None of these dyno sessions happen in a vacuum, so the numbers vary a lot, like Cobb's been saying throughout this thread. Stop worrying about the absolute numbers posted here. Focus on the gains and quit questioning the dyno reading. A base run vs. tuned run = resulted increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You just said it yourself... the delta is all we are concerned about. None of these dyno sessions happen in a vacuum, so the numbers vary a lot, like Cobb's been saying throughout this thread. Stop worrying about the absolute numbers posted here. Focus on the gains and quit questioning the dyno reading. A base run vs. tuned run = resulted increase. Did you have a point you were making that was not already made in the thread. Or are you just getting upset and telling me to shut up basically:lol:? Obviously the delta is not what "we" are concerned about (not sure who "we" defines) if other people in this thread are convinced otherwise....I'm trying to have a valid discussion about dyno results and how the community interprets them. There are correction factors for many of the variables that affect a dyno reading, or a 1/4mi run, or whatever measure of performance. And if your dyno is reading high, magnifying your horsepower figure, it's also magnifying your delta, so you're thinking you're gaining more power than you really are. It's one thing to say "I gained 10% more hp", but who does that? People talk about gains in terms of absolute numbers...."such and such mod added 50hp". If you want to make it all about the deltas, then people should state their gains based off of factory numbers. If the deltas show a 25% increase in wtq, then the result should be a gain of .25x260lb-ft for an increase of 65lb-ft of torque, instead of saying "I now have 325lb-ft of torque at the wheels". Something needs to be consistent for any of this to have real meaning, otherwise we're just thumping our chests aren't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tytek Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You still don't get it, and I won't try to convince you otherwise. And obviously, you won't shut up about it (I will, as I am done here). Increase over the base run is what people should be concerned about. That is the reason why in every good thread on this board that deals with tuning results people are asked to post a base run and their tuned run. It gives us all a point of reference. Due to all the existing variables, stating your power figures is not a comparative indication of how powerful/fast the car is. I know that it is more convenient to say: 'my car makes this much power,' but it is not a reliable way to compare your car's ability against others. Let's just leave it at that. I'm done arguing here. Going out for a nice drive around town to do some binnez... and enjoy 'my' numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadal4Hand Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 Did they put an STI motor in there accidentally . I know the OP is not going to pay for another run on a different dyno, but if I saw the same types of numbers confirmed elsewhere then I would believe the factory freak theory. I would dyno it again if it was free and I got a free DP as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fischbach31 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I had my car run on 2 different dyno's about 2 weeks apart.....I will post the results when I get home!! Also one was a Dynojet and one was a Dyno Dynamics so 2 different dyno's also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fischbach31 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 So I re-size my picture after first time failed....now its telling me invalid file?? Can anyone help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fischbach31 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 So these numbers are with straight pipe axlebacks.... Stock tune- 278hp and 258tq Pre tune Dyno Dynamics- 264hp and 310tq English Racing tune Dynojet- 268hp and 300tq I didn't get the dyno numbers with the oem mufflers but I don't think the axlebacks would affect it too much! Really wish I could upload the graph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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