legandrex Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I have to be honest I am seriously thinking about leaving Subaru for my daily driver. Come spring it will be 10 consecutive years of having a Subie as my daily driver. Lease is coming due on Legacy in spring and I would say a 2012 Autobahn Jetta GLI or 4 door GTI are both ahead of WRX at this time for my next lease. Both are a good chuck of change less than a base wrx per month and both offer additional creature comforts the wrx doesn't. Am I off my rocker with these outragous thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I have to be honest I am seriously thinking about leaving Subaru for my daily driver. Come spring it will be 10 consecutive years of having a Subie as my daily driver. Lease is coming due on Legacy in spring and I would say a 2012 Autobahn Jetta GLI or 4 door GTI are both ahead of WRX at this time for my next lease. Both are a good chuck of change less than a base wrx per month and both offer additional creature comforts the wrx doesn't. Am I off my rocker with these outragous thoughts? I loved the Jettas, except the V-Tex vinyl seats in practically every model. Is there are Jetta available with real leather? Get a Jetta if you can't afford a Subie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legandrex Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 I loved the Jettas, except the V-Tex vinyl seats in practically every model. Is there are Jetta available with real leather? Get a Jetta if you can't afford a Subie. No...Autobahn Jetta has leatherette and GTI I would get would be cloth. Not an issue for me seeing I am comparing them both to a base wrx that has a $15K economy car interior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 No...Autobahn Jetta has leatherette and GTI I would get would be cloth. Not an issue for me seeing I am comparing them both to a base wrx that has a $15K economy car interior. Go with the Jetta then. They are really popular and hold their value because of desirability (although the last model was better looking). The base Jetta's interior is really cheap looking though. It was a bit disconcerting that VW created the loss leader base Jetta with 115 hp and 125 ft lbs. Waters down the Jetta's performance image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Go with the Jetta then. They are really popular and hold their value because of desirability (although the last model was better looking). The base Jetta's interior is really cheap looking though. It was a bit disconcerting that VW created the loss leader base Jetta with 115 hp and 125 ft lbs. Waters down the Jetta's performance image. The top of line GLI interior is no better. Same plati-goop seats, tupperware shiny dash, hard armrests and door panels, uneven panel gaps, sharp casting edges, etc... A co-worker has a new Jetta TDI and the interior is simply awful. If you want real VW interior quality, get a GTI which hasn't been bean counted. I am seriously considering getting a GTI to either replace our Legacy or as a second daily driver. Reliability be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 The new GTI's with the wacky dual clutch paddle shifters are a hoot. I wouldn't buy one myself, but I can't fault anyone who would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 The GTI gets such good fuel economy, it's difficult to justify the TDI unless you drive 100+mi/day. The DSG in the GTi is the way to go for sure. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 The GTI gets such good fuel economy, it's difficult to justify the TDI unless you drive 100+mi/day. The DSG in the GTi is the way to go for sure. I would fall into the 100 mile a day club, but beyond that...the diesel is more durable, has more torque and has better resale. Looking at pure cost per mile, you are absolutely right. At one time the GTI models were still made in Germany and seemed to have better quality. The rest are made in Mexico (like many fords). Don't know if they are still made in Germany or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I don't buy cars for resale. I buy them for me. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 At one time the GTI models were still made in Germany and seemed to have better quality. The rest are made in Mexico (like many fords). Don't know if they are still made in Germany or not. This is a myth, it makes no difference. As in, both will be equally unreliable. FYI - the GTI is made in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 This is a myth, it makes no difference. As in, both will be equally unreliable. FYI - the GTI is made in Germany. Got any proof? I would be interested in seeing that. Please share the statistics you have comparing the different production plants and countries. I won't hold my breath waiting for this and will be surprised that you would have statistics that break it down that way. Look forward to those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I don't buy cars for resale. I buy them for me. I buy them for "me" too. I don't buy them for other people. Me wants as much money as possible when selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Got any proof? I would be interested in seeing that. Please share the statistics you have comparing the different production plants and countries. I won't hold my breath waiting for this and will be surprised that you would have statistics that break it down that way. Look forward to those. Sure I can. You have to subscribe to CR to see it but the GTI has average reliability and the almost identical Golf has better/much better than average reliability. The GTI is made in Germany and the almost identical Golf is from Mexico. And for a bonus piece of anecdotal evidence, my German assembled Passat was an absolute piece of crap. None of the problems it had (or most VWs have for that matter) were assembly related anyways. It was substandard parts and engineering. Assembly may have some impact on initial quality, but has almost no effect on long term reliability which is determined almost entirely by engineering and maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Sure I can. You have to subscribe to CR to see it but the GTI has average reliability and the almost identical Golf has better/much better than average reliability. The GTI is made in Germany and the almost identical Golf is from Mexico. And for a bonus piece of anecdotal evidence, my German assembled Passat was an absolute piece of crap. None of the problems it had (or most VWs have for that matter) were assembly related anyways. It was substandard parts and engineering. Assembly may have some impact on initial quality, but has almost no effect on long term reliability which is determined almost entirely by engineering and maintenance. Almost identical...except for about 2-3K parts contained in the engine, transmission, seats, suspension, etc. I'm sure the plant in Germany has exactly the same quality control, plant procedures and equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoFire Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I don't buy cars for resale. I buy them for me. I have to thank you on that one! Almost identical...except for about 2-3K parts contained in the engine, transmission, seats, suspension, etc. I'm sure the plant in Germany has exactly the same quality control, plant procedures and equipment. Which, coincidentally, the parts that break on the GTI are the engine and transmission. If you ever follow VW's at all, you'd know the 2.0 TFSI has its own world of problems, the DSG is no better. I can't say for the suspension or seats, but I know GTI owners have been battling rattles forever and ever. These things of course is not related to where its built. I have a friend that sells VW, when I was looking, even he recommended me to NOT get the DSG, even the new version of the DSG. And he told me NOT to own one, leasing is good and trade up to an Audi in a few years. No he doesn't sell Audis if you are wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I have to thank you on that one! Which, coincidentally, the parts that break on the GTI are the engine and transmission. If you ever follow VW's at all, you'd know the 2.0 TFSI has its own world of problems, the DSG is no better. I can't say for the suspension or seats, but I know GTI owners have been battling rattles forever and ever. These things of course is not related to where its built. I have a friend that sells VW, when I was looking, even he recommended me to NOT get the DSG, even the new version of the DSG. And he told me NOT to own one, leasing is good and trade up to an Audi in a few years. No he doesn't sell Audis if you are wondering. You still have nothing that shows quality differences between plants and countries huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 You still have nothing that shows quality differences between plants and countries huh? I just gave you evidence showing that it makes little to no difference, actually proving the opposite is true(Mexican built superior to German built.) You can keep moving the goal posts but it won't change the fact that you know squat about cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoFire Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 You still have nothing that shows quality differences between plants and countries huh? I just told you it makes no different whether its made in Germany or Mexico, VW's are still crap. We got that settled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I just gave you evidence showing that it makes little to no difference, actually proving the opposite is true(Mexican built superior to German built.) You can keep moving the goal posts but it won't change the fact that you know squat about cars. Statements by you and your salesman friend aren't proof. General quality ratings by Consumer Reports for all Jetta's, Golfs, Passats, etc. don't prove the difference in quality between German made VWs and Mexican made VWs. Consumer Reports with their red and black balls. Hehehehehe Yeah I will be waiting a long time to get this proof. You can resort to personal attacks if that makes you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Statements by you and your salesman friend aren't proof. General quality ratings by Consumer Reports for all Jetta's, Golfs, Passats, etc. don't prove the difference in quality between German made VWs and Mexican made VWs. Consumer Reports with their red and black balls. Hehehehehe Yeah I will be waiting a long time to get this proof. You can resort to personal attacks if that makes you feel better. ALL GTIs are made in Germany and the reliability is below the Jettas/Golfs the majority of which are from Mexico/U.S.A. You obviously don't understand enough about the automotive industry to understand why it makes little difference where a car is made. Reliability comes from engineering, parts quality, and how the factories are run. This has NOTHING, I reapeat NOTHING to do with where or who is screwing them together. You might as well say that red cars are more reliable than white ones. You are the one who made this statement:"At one time the GTI models were still made in Germany and seemed to have better quality." Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 So... did you just suggest there is no correlation between manufacturing tolerances and the country of origin? Do you work for China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoFire Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 ALL GTIs are made in Germany and the reliability is below the Jettas/Golfs the majority of which are from Mexico/U.S.A. You obviously don't understand enough about the automotive industry to understand why it makes little difference where a car is made. Reliability comes from engineering, parts quality, and how the factories are run. This has NOTHING, I reapeat NOTHING to do with where or who is screwing them together. You might as well say that red cars are more reliable than white ones. You are the one who made this statement:"At one time the GTI models were still made in Germany and seemed to have better quality." Prove it. Ha I just realized my point is a little different than yours. I was maintaining that it doesn't matter where VW's are made, they are all shit. Though I do not fully agree with your statement about its all in the engineering. Sure where the car is assembled makes no difference, but where the parts are sourced I'm sure makes a difference as different suppliers may have different tolerances. I thought this thread was going to die, but it has been awaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 ALL GTIs are made in Germany and the reliability is below the Jettas/Golfs the majority of which are from Mexico/U.S.A. You obviously don't understand enough about the automotive industry to understand why it makes little difference where a car is made. Reliability comes from engineering, parts quality, and how the factories are run. This has NOTHING, I reapeat NOTHING to do with where or who is screwing them together. You might as well say that red cars are more reliable than white ones. You are the one who made this statement: "At one time the GTI models were still made in Germany and seemed to have better quality." Prove it. I'm glad you brought that up. Maybe we should focus on the statement I made that you jumped on as being a myth. Thanks. It's my opinion and is my impression of the interior. You are the one that said it's a myth. It's not a myth. In my opinion, the upgrade seats, door panels, leather covered steering wheel, carpet, etc. are better quality. I also believe the engines offered from the Germany plant are better quality in terms of performance, response, cost of parts and resulting finished product. Look at the cost of the cars coming from Germany in comparison to the ones from Mexico. It's like the Japanese building their base products here and luxury lines; Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, in Japan. I never said anything about who is screwing them together. You are trying to mischaracterize my statement into some type of discriminatory crap. You really are full of it. I said the VW's made in Germany seemed to be better quality. Not reliability, not durability, not longevity....but quality. If you knew manufacturing, you would understand that quality can be measured in different ways. One is "perceived" quality. You seem to dispute my impression of VW's from Germany holding a perceived quality edge over the ones made at the plant in Germany. This isn't about reliability. I never talked about reliability, you did. Maybe that is where yo have the problem with my statement. Someone who knows quality and quality control will understand that quality is measured by the type of raw materials used to produce the parts and the tolerance that supplier is held to. I laughed at you and asked you to prove it because it was obvious you don't understand. Sorry about making fun of you. If you have some proprietary numbers from VW showing the cost of parts, tolerances and specs that they are assembled to in Mexico is better than Germany, please feel free to provide it. I believe it will be a long time before you get that to me. Still waiting for you to disprove my impression......I worked in manufacturing and also worked for a company that produced raw materials and finished parts for the automotive and marine industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I have a friend that sells VW, when I was looking, even he recommended me to NOT get the DSG, even the new version of the DSG. And he told me NOT to own one, leasing is good and trade up to an Audi in a few years. No he doesn't sell Audis if you are wondering. Leasing is never a good idea. Did he really say that about the DSG? Bummer. The GTI is one of the very few cars that's better with an automatic. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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