Xv

[BDII]

Americans just need to stop being so lazy and drive a proper manual transmission. Why does anybody go for such a numb uninteractive driving experience that comes with driving an automatic, whether it be a 4 eat, or a cvt, its all just boring. People act as if driving a manual is A: difficult, or B: complicated. Trust me, thee have been plenty of inept idiots who have operated a manual trans perfectly well. That leaves us with one main reason being that most people don't deal with a lot of traffic everyday, nor drive cars that would necessitate a heavy clutch; LAZINESS! Lazy Americans are driving a worthwhile driving experience into extinction. Sorry for the tangent guys, I just can't bear to read banter about stood automatic transmissions. Viva la Manuel!!

 

 

nice blanket statement

[Subies4Life]

most people that complain about CVT's have no idea what they are talking about. As long as it doesn't drone and doesn't feel like a rubber band, it's a much better way to go for economical vehicles than an automatic. You wouldn't have to keep adding gears to increase fuel economy if you have infinite ratios.

 

Why is it a dumb move to lower the power rating to 148 hp? It's a commuter car and needs to be fuel efficient. The car is quicker than the 170 hp car and gets better city mpg's than the old car's highway mpg's. Are you oblivious to that? at 148 hp it still has a much better power to weight ratio than your 170 hp 2.5i Legacy. Do you realize that?

 

1) Do you realize that cars like the fiesta have ridiculously slim margins and for Subaru to make one with AWD it would cost almost as much as an Impreza? With margins that slim, the exchange rate alone would dictate whether or not the car was profitable. Who's gonna buy a performance Justy? Where is the market for that? definitely not in America.

 

[Edit] Oh really? then why is Ford bringing a ST Fiesta to America in the future then? care to explain that? [Edit]

2) The Forester, which is end of life, destroys the sportage, which is new, in sales. Who knows what the next generation will bring

 

Price increase?

2011 Base = $18,220

2012 Base = $18,245

 

2011 Premium = $19,220

2012 Premium = $19,545

 

Name me the cars in this segment with projectors and I'll name you 10x the list without. Name me the cars in this segment with LED tails and I'll name you 10x the list without. Are you completely overlooking what this car has added? Soft touch interior? Way better seat fabric? Standard Armrest extension? Standard Aux and standard media hub on most models? A new engine with a chain? Electric power steering? A rear sway bar (most cars in this segment don't even have an independent rear suspension like the elantra and jetta)? Standard Bluetooth on most models? A brand new transmission? An increase in high tensile strength steel (expensive, expensive, expensive) to increase rigidity, Driver knee airbag? One piece key? Oh yeah... and 36 mpg with full time AWD.

 

The Impreza is a commuter car. It's finally able to compete as one. If you are looking for 200hp RS's, you're not the right demo for what the Impreza is meant to be. Who knows what they might make in the future, but for now the impreza is finally not a half assed attempt at a compact vehicle.

 

The Impreza has increased in price while at the same time it's lost power and lost standard features. The improvements i like are the interior minus the white faced gauges which should have been black faced. I like the new aggressive front end,and the one piece key which was long over do. It needs to be sporty again though. The fuel mileage at 35-36 MPG is a vastly huge improvement. They need to bring the headlight projectors back and the LED tails (gone on 12 on hatch) hood dampers need to make a comeback though,hopefully for 2013?

 

Hell,even the 2012 Kia Rio has projectors and LED'S. The manual is a carry over,which is good on the 12's. It is geared completely different though meaning you have to do alot of downshifting to compensate for the lower power. Sorry but 148 HP in an AWD car is going to feel mighty gutless compared to the 11's. They could have easily made the 2012 with 170-175HP and still achieve 33-36 MPGs. A 30HP loss is a big loss in power. The oil filter on the top of the engine is a nice touch aswell.

 

Yes,I know it's an economy car and it's the best one out there but Subaru could have at least put some effort into the 2012 Impreza,and made it even better. Blame the stupid government and their cafe standard for forcing this whole "MPG deadline bs" on automakers. They should have just Let the free market decide. Look at the cash for clunkers program,that did nothing but ruin rare parts,spare parts for old cars. The gov't destroyed perfectly good replacement engines and other misc parts that were still useful to some people if they needed them for parts.

 

I think you also have to put the blame on Toyota aswell. GM should have never sold their remaining FHI shares to Toyota. They should have sold them back to FHI stock. Toyota is ruining my favorite automaker. Why can't Toyota just go away and leave?!? just look at the 10-11 legacy for example,it has increased significantly in size. The interior quality is crap compared to the 2009's.

 

It lost the mechanical e-brake and rod shifter,not to mention the goose neck trunk hinges are gone aswell,and the trunk is small and dinky/tiny in length. It now has a crappy cable actuated shifter and a crappy CVT. Admit it the BL/BP is the last best generation Legacy! The new one is just a bloated mid size car with the legacy badge that doesn't deserve the name nor prestige. No offense 5th gen owners but it's the truth. I do however like the 3.6 because it atleast keeps with the 5spd auto.

 

Now onto the Outback. The same thing is happening too,because it's essentially the new Legacy Wagon,minus the Legacy name and body cladding added plus lifted suspension. The Outback XT is gone aswell. Now theres rumors that the 2014 WRX will be as small or the same size as a Toyota fuglis. (yaris) It will receive a dinky 1.6L Engine and will be coupe only?! They better offer a hatch and sedan models! but offering only a coupe will isolate alot of buyers.

 

The FT86/BRZ seems like a cool concept,but i don't see it selling that well to be honest,especially as a scion. Toyota finally makes their first really exciting product in decades,only to be butchered as the fugly scion FRS? Subaru should focus on it's ,history,heritage,motorsports and enthusiasts. Thank god we still have the real WRX and STI for 2011-2012 and hopefully it's the same for 2013. I know Subaru wants to get back into the WRC,but they should do it with a new Justy. They need to Keep the WRX and STI the way they are now which are perfect! leave well enough alone and if it aint broke don't fix it. A Subaru exec said Subaru is still a Turbo company I am excited that Turbos will be staying!

[The B4]

Just because Ford MIGHT bring the ST Fiesta here, doesn't mean there's a market for it.

 

The Impreza is roughly the same price as the outgoing model and swapped some standard equipment for others that people in the segment actually care about. Overall all it's much better package than the outgoing car.

 

The car lost power, but it also lost weight and Motortrend verifies it's faster than the 170 hp Impreza. It didn't lose 30 hp. It lost 22 hp... and what it gained was 30% in fuel economy. Like I said, It still has a better power to weight ratio than your Legacy.

 

Kia Rio has projectors and LEDs and so does the Mazda 3. Only one of those models sells in any appreciable numbers. Guess who doesn't have projectors or LED's? Civic, Elantra, Focus, Sentra, Corolla, Lancer, Cruze, and Jetta. Civic Lost LED's and Jetta lost projectors.

 

What do you mean "made it better?" Have you driven it? Once again, it has a better power to weight ratio than your car AND it's quicker than the 2011. The 2008-2011 was slow, comfortable, and clumsy. The 2012 will be slow, comfortable and nimble. The reviews state that the 2012 really shines in the chassis and suspension departments. It's being compared to the sportiness of the Mazda3, which the last generation was a far cry from.

 

Your opinions of legislation are your own. A fuel efficient 2012 Impreza means that less fuel efficient HiPo turbos live on. You can say what you want about cash for clunkers, but anyone in the industry will tell you it saved the automotive industry.

 

Blaming Toyota is also uninformed opinion. Nissan owned 20% of FHI for 31 years before selling that stake to GM. GM owned 20% for 6 years before selling what would eventually become a 16.7% stake for Toyota. Toyota doesn't have controlling interest nor does it even have a member on FHI's board of directors. They make no decisions for Subaru. They are investors in Subaru and Subaru benefits from their supply chain. The Legacy is still one of the smaller mid sized sedans, handles better than the outgoing car, and isn't unprofitable for Subaru like the BL was.

 

Rehashing all of the stupidity of what the BM lost in relation to the BL is old hat. The car gained a place in the market and quit being a failure to FHI's bottom line.

 

The Outback was ALWAYS a Legacy wagon. In fact, the original Outback wasn't even lifted, it was just paint and an Outback in name only. The CVT has been praised in the industry for being the most like a Automatic in function. The Outback XT didn't sell. You don't earn your keep, you get the axe.

 

Regarding the WRX, rumors are what? rumors. Complain when you actually have a concrete reason to complain about.

 

The RWD coupe was made by Subaru for Toyota. It was originally not even going to have a Subaru version. Apparently Subaru made something good enough that they didn't want to miss out on it.

 

You really should spend some time test driving and get some one on one time with some of the things you are talking about. It's really sad to see someone get their panties in a bunch over something they have no experience with and have read off of a website.

 

I guess you'll have to change your name from Subies4Life to MyLastSubaru.

[Stock_Sucks]

3,000 post count Sr. Member research technician owns 30+ post count n/a 2.5i-can't new guy....... I love this forum

 

Btw Subaru is always going to build cool shit. But to be able to afford to design and build cool shit for me to buy they need to sell lots of 2.5i CVT cars to as many middle income mindless numb people as possible..... Marketing and Microeconomics 101 stuff here....

 

And since it's fun to see who's got the bigger package...... I've owned more than 30 vehicles. All but three were manual trans.... I have a commercial drivers liscense and have driven semi-trucks places that needed a D-9 Cat-Pull to get through in the Canadian Oil patch.

 

Give me a Subaru CVT car that can take 500lb/ft torque. I'll buy it and stop rowing gears and enjoy the ride. I've changed enough gears in the daily grind to appreciate a slush box

[Subies4Life]

Just because Ford MIGHT bring the ST Fiesta here, doesn't mean there's a market for it.

 

The Impreza is roughly the same price as the outgoing model and swapped some standard equipment for others that people in the segment actually care about. Overall all it's much better package than the outgoing car.

 

The car lost power, but it also lost weight and Motortrend verifies it's faster than the 170 hp Impreza. It didn't lose 30 hp. It lost 22 hp... and what it gained was 30% in fuel economy. Like I said, It still has a better power to weight ratio than your Legacy.

 

Kia Rio has projectors and LEDs and so does the Mazda 3. Only one of those models sells in any appreciable numbers. Guess who doesn't have projectors or LED's? Civic, Elantra, Focus, Sentra, Corolla, Lancer, Cruze, and Jetta. Civic Lost LED's and Jetta lost projectors.

 

What do you mean "made it better?" Have you driven it? Once again, it has a better power to weight ratio than your car AND it's quicker than the 2011. The 2008-2011 was slow, comfortable, and clumsy. The 2012 will be slow, comfortable and nimble. The reviews state that the 2012 really shines in the chassis and suspension departments. It's being compared to the sportiness of the Mazda3, which the last generation was a far cry from.

 

Your opinions of legislation are your own. A fuel efficient 2012 Impreza means that less fuel efficient HiPo turbos live on. You can say what you want about cash for clunkers, but anyone in the industry will tell you it saved the automotive industry.

 

Blaming Toyota is also uninformed opinion. Nissan owned 20% of FHI for 31 years before selling that stake to GM. GM owned 20% for 6 years before selling what would eventually become a 16.7% stake for Toyota. Toyota doesn't have controlling interest nor does it even have a member on FHI's board of directors. They make no decisions for Subaru. They are investors in Subaru and Subaru benefits from their supply chain. The Legacy is still one of the smaller mid sized sedans, handles better than the outgoing car, and isn't unprofitable for Subaru like the BL was.

 

Rehashing all of the stupidity of what the BM lost in relation to the BL is old hat. The car gained a place in the market and quit being a failure to FHI's bottom line.

 

The Outback was ALWAYS a Legacy wagon. In fact, the original Outback wasn't even lifted, it was just paint and an Outback in name only. The CVT has been praised in the industry for being the most like a Automatic in function. The Outback XT didn't sell. You don't earn your keep, you get the axe.

 

Regarding the WRX, rumors are what? rumors. Complain when you actually have a concrete reason to complain about.

 

The RWD coupe was made by Subaru for Toyota. It was originally not even going to have a Subaru version. Apparently Subaru made something good enough that they didn't want to miss out on it.

 

You really should spend some time test driving and get some one on one time with some of the things you are talking about. It's really sad to see someone get their panties in a bunch over something they have no experience with and have read off of a website.

 

I guess you'll have to change your name from Subies4Life to MyLastSubaru.

 

I am not trying to argue but don't you see my point so far? cable shifters are more expensive and are more prone to break,so why integrate them in the new Legacy's? The electric e-brake is a love it hate it thing,but personally they should have kept it mechanical like the BL. I didn't see that much space being freed up if you ask me,by removing it. I mean the current Legacy doesn't even have the nice slide cover by the center console anymore. As for the GT it's pretty much a lost cause and i doubt they'll ever make the Spec.B anymore either. The XT Outback sold fairly well,because i see some around here it did sell.

 

The New Legacy has increased in size but it lost standard features aswell. What do you call an improvement? About the 2014 WRX,I realize there's just rumors going around,and it's just bs and speculation at this point. Who knows what they'll do to it,but i do fear they will water it down. I know alot of people don't want to see a 1.6L put in a WRX...ever and i don't blame them. So hopefully for US models they at least come with a 2.0 or 2.5L but we'll see. A new Justy would be a pretty smart move and I think there would be a market for it and a performance/sporty version.

 

The XV Impreza looks cool but i always thought a Turbo Outback Sport in the lineup would be awesome,one can dream right? When it comes to the US it will probably be called the Impreza Crossover,or something like that. They should just call it the Outback Sport. My friend has a 2002 Bugeye sport and it isn't bad at all. It seems fairly peppy with only 165 HP which on the 2012 XV is only a 17HP loss but a 27HP loss from the last gen 2011's 170-175HP. I will have to see it in person,and test drive it before making assumptions.

 

I'd rather see people be guinea pigs now for this new 2012 design until 2013-2014 so they can work out some bugs if there are any. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic since the power is down,but i am optimistic and bet they will make the Impreza even better later on,they always do improve and make their cars better every year which is a very good thing.

[The B4]

Cable shifters are used to prevent noise and vibration from entering the cabin. It makes a manual operated car a lot quieter on the inside. 25% of the lower center console was occupied by the ebrake and it's housing. The XT Outback was a very, very slow seller.

 

The new Legacy lost standard features and gained others. The BL was a failure for Subaru. Subaru was expecting to reach 250,000 units in 2005 with that gen Legacy and Outback. The BL was an abysmal failure in volume and in the amount of incentive cash required to move them off the lot. That was a time when all of the Japanese companies were ROCKING and Subaru was coming up short and needed big incentive money to even get that far. FHI had its first unprofitable year since the mid 90's in 2006... all on the back of incentivizing Legacy's and Outbacks. The current Legacy is selling at a record pace, fits real people, and still drives better than the outgoing car. I still have friends with BL's and I am reminded everytime I sit shotgun that my knees are in the dash.

 

The entire point of separating the WRX from the Impreza is to keep the WRX from being watered down. I'm pretty sure Subaru learned its lesson from the 2008 WRX. Harping on 1.6l engines at this point is dumb.

 

A new Justy is a terrible business move in the US if you are looking for a non rebadged Toyota. Fiesta's and Fits have very little markup as they are. A Symmetrical AWD Justy wouldn't cost much less than an Impreza and would be super risky for Subaru to bring with the current relationship of the yen and the dollar. That alone would decide whether that car was profitable or unprofitable.

 

Subaru already sells an XV globally. It's a more butch (and ugly) version of our Outback Sport. It makes sense to me to rename the next iteration to be in line with global name. Where is your math coming from on hp losses? Why are you so caught up on HP numbers? If the car is lighter, quicker, and the transmission isn't constantly hunting for gears... you'd still rather have the heavier, slower, gear hunting 170 hp Impreza... because it has more hp? Unbelievable

 

The FB engine is set up for direct injection. I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru is testing out DI with the BRZ and will give the Impreza DI at some point in its future. For now, a 148 hp, lighter, quicker, roomier, more nimble, 36 MPG Impreza sounds good to me.

[ehsnils]

A few comments here.

1. The new engine has a better torque range which makes it a lot better for the average driver.

2. It's only in the US that the Legacy is sold as a sedan only.

3. The cash for clunkers primarily saved the US car industry, the rest of the world would have survived anyway.

4. The CVT is way better than a stepped auto, but it's tuned for economy, not sportiness so it's getting badmouthed due to that. And the smoothness of it is deceiving - car feels slower than it is.

 

What my Legacy lacks compared to the 07 Outback I had is that the Outback had bi-xenon headlights but now I'm stuck with just low beam xenon HID:s. (Yes, Europe has gotten OEM HIDs for several years now)

 

So from what I can figure out the EU gets feature-rich versions as standard that aren't even on the map in the US, but we have to pay for it too. I paid some $44k for my diesel wagon, and other car brands are priced in the same way. I suspect that cars in the US in general are sold at a loss or break-even and all profits comes from other things like parts and service.

[WraithAkaMrak]

Subaru XV coming to America in 2013 under Crosstrek moniker

 

Sure to be confused with the Crosstour.

[WraithAkaMrak]

http://autoweek.com/galleryimage/CW/20111212/CARREVIEWS/121209999/PH/1/6/Subaru-XV-Crosstrek-drive-in-Italy6.jpg

 

Subaru XV first drives:

 

• Motor Trend
  
• Road & Track
  
• Autoweek
  
• Automobile Magazine
  
• Autocar
  
• Autoblog
  

 

Nice to see some non-orange XV pics.

 

Same 148hp 2.0L as Impreza, with 5-speed manual or CVT.

Europe also gets 1.6L gas and 2.0L diesel options, 6-speed manual, stop/start standard.

8.6" ground clearance.

Weight 3020–3086 lbs.

Revised front and rear bumpers.

Grille and 17" alloys unique to XV.

Black plastic wheel arches.

White-on-black tach.

[Natas]

A few comments here.

1. The new engine has a better torque range which makes it a lot better for the average driver.

2. It's only in the US that the Legacy is sold as a sedan only.

3. The cash for clunkers primarily saved the US car industry, the rest of the world would have survived anyway.

4. The CVT is way better than a stepped auto, but it's tuned for economy, not sportiness so it's getting badmouthed due to that. And the smoothness of it is deceiving - car feels slower than it is.

 

What my Legacy lacks compared to the 07 Outback I had is that the Outback had bi-xenon headlights but now I'm stuck with just low beam xenon HID:s. (Yes, Europe has gotten OEM HIDs for several years now)

 

So from what I can figure out the EU gets feature-rich versions as standard that aren't even on the map in the US, but we have to pay for it too. I paid some $44k for my diesel wagon, and other car brands are priced in the same way. I suspect that cars in the US in general are sold at a loss or break-even and all profits comes from other things like parts and service.

 

 

Love the fact that the EU perspective was added here!

 

From my observation The Outback XT was the best selling BP era Legacy in my area... I 've twice as many OB XT as all other legacy in my travels. Having driven the BM with a CVT, I have to admit it's a huge improvement from the out going AT.

 

As for the 2012 Impreza vs the out going model, can't say.. haven't driven it, but on paper makes for a better "commuter" car. but the fact that the WRX is a separate model not it allows for it to NOT be watered down... Hope Subaru does mess with it too much. (time will tell)

 

I really think a rebadged... tweaked sheet metal xD or even the iQ would make a Great Justy... Does NOT have to be AWD!! <== yes I said it!

[ShrinerMonkey]

If Subaru put a turbocharged 2.0L engine in this I might be interested.

[TrueWhiteBoy]

Cable shifters are used to prevent noise and vibration from entering the cabin. It makes a manual operated car a lot quieter on the inside. 25% of the lower center console was occupied by the ebrake and it's housing. The XT Outback was a very, very slow seller.

 

The new Legacy lost standard features and gained others. The BL was a failure for Subaru. Subaru was expecting to reach 250,000 units in 2005 with that gen Legacy and Outback. The BL was an abysmal failure in volume and in the amount of incentive cash required to move them off the lot. That was a time when all of the Japanese companies were ROCKING and Subaru was coming up short and needed big incentive money to even get that far. FHI had its first unprofitable year since the mid 90's in 2006... all on the back of incentivizing Legacy's and Outbacks. The current Legacy is selling at a record pace, fits real people, and still drives better than the outgoing car. I still have friends with BL's and I am reminded everytime I sit shotgun that my knees are in the dash.

 

It's amazing what actual marketing will do.

[The B4]

It's amazing what actual marketing will do.

 

Or building cars based on consumer feedback. The Mazda6 campaign was way larger than the Legacy's and it came up a huge dud.

[ehsnils]

You can have the perfect car that's cheap but if there's just one detail that puts people off severely then they will take another model.

[The B4]

cool commercial

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM70JYhBtiw]Subaru XV TV Commercial - YouTube[/ame]