Does my dealer really know what they are talking about???

[new2theru]

I recently purchased a 2007 legacy gt limited 5EAT with help from the people on legacygt.com so thank you to those that responded to my questions on that.

I now have an issue that I am unsure about and could really use some help. I purchased the car with 52,000miles and decided to take it to the dealer for the auto trans flush because I felt they would be the most knowledgeable and skilled for this task. How wrong I was! After having the flush done and driving about 70 miles I saw that the receipt I had gotten said they replaced the old fluid with new Dexron III. I remeber reading in the manual that Dexron III is not to be used and will cause shuttering and damage if it is. I called the dealer and was told that there was NOTHING to worry about because it is totally compatable. I was not willing to accept this and argued untill they agreed to do another flush with the proper ATF HP fluid. I hoped that everything would be fine but I now notice that it does not seem to want to shift as well as it did and after long drives of an hour or so it seems to slip and feels as if it has a lack in accelleration. Again I called the dealer that did the work and they tell me that what they did could not have anything to do with the problem that I seem to be having. So my question is can replacing all the fluid in the tranny and driving a total of about 90miles have caused these problems or have done any kind of damage that could get worse with time?? I feel that they would not have done the flush again at no charge with the correct fluid if they truley beleived that it was 100% compatible and possed no problem.

[boostedgrocerygetter]

driving only 90 miles may not have caused a problem but them again it really depends on how the clutch disks would react to that fluid. where most of your problem probably lies is the fact that the original owner may not have ever flushed or even changed the trans fluid. if that is the case then flushing this fluid out was a horrible idea at this mileage. flushes should only be done if they have been done reg about every 30k miles.

 

its a bad idea due to the fact that the trans was used to have those dirt/clutch particles in the fluid and they actually took up more space inbetween the clutch disks than clean fluid will. so now in esence with the new fluid your trans is slipping.

 

you may want to double check with them to see if they reset the adaptives after the flush. been along time since i worked on subarus. but i believe that does need to be done.

[boostedgrocerygetter]

this is something that a reputible dealer would have warned you of and explained to you before the procedure was performed.

 

a trans drain and fill should have been done at most due to the fact that you are only changing out about 1/4-1/3 of the fluid.

[m sprank]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Reputable? They used the wrong fluid.

 

I suspect that if they "flushed" it, rather than just dropped the fluid and replaced that the flush is the problem. Would not recommend a "flush".

[new2theru]

If infact the flush has caused slippage would it still be covered under the factory warranty since it was done by a subaru dealer? Can I do the reset of the adaptives myself, is it like reseting the ECU where all I need to do is disconnect the battery for a few hours?

[m sprank]

Resetting TCU can be accomplished by disconnecting battery for a while. I like to depress brake pedal to make sure capacitors are drained. Then I will even put the positive and negative wires together and ground them both. No way anything has power at that point.

 

As far as warranty, there most likely is none. You could call SOA and try to get them involved.

[ClimberDHexMods]

Resetting TCU can be accomplished by disconnecting battery for a while. I like to depress brake pedal to make sure capacitors are drained. Then I will even put the positive and negative wires together and ground them both. No way anything has power at that point.

 

As far as warranty, there most likely is none. You could call SOA and try to get them involved.

 

That won't do a single thing to the TCU.

 

I don't remember if 07 is CAN yet or not, so I don't know if a Vag-Com cable and "FREE SSM" (free software) would allow you to interface with the TCU and reset its learned parameters to zero so it can start over learning.

 

50-60k miles is that magical fluid age area where Subaru ATF starts failing as a detergent, and black gunk SLOWLY starts to accumulate throughout the transmission fluid passageway walls. Magical though because the car will still shift fine, and even I wouldn't be able to tell a difference unless I did back-to-back my car / your car comparisons. Even then, a learning discrepancy between the two cars would be enough to throw off the whole thing. Subaru learning is that good. I digress, most of the valve bodies I've modified are at this point, so I've seen it first hand.

 

If their flush was one of the aggressive types, it could have knocked enough of this black worn clutch pack gunk free to clog or otherwise interfere with the free movement of one or several of the many dozens of sliding parts in your trans.

 

My guess is either the Dex III, or more likely the flush itself, wrecked your trans. But go by what I said in my PM reply, and that's about as good as you can do.

 

Lastly, this is why I always tell people to do flushes a certain way, which almost no one listens to, so why bother... then this somewhat frequent occurrence takes place involving a flush machine and by then it's too late. How can a flush machine possibly be bad? 1950s: How can smoking possibly be bad? My doctor recommended it.

 

Good luck.

[m sprank]

^ It resets chassis codes, which are held in the TCU. Otherwise I have no clue how to reset it. SSMII tool, I suppose. Good luck getting that from Subie.

[ClimberDHexMods]

^ It resets chassis codes, which are held in the TCU. Otherwise I have no clue how to reset it. SSMII tool, I suppose. Good luck getting that from Subie.

 

That's exactly how dealerships reset customer TCU codes, with the SSM computer.

[new2theru]

So once the codes are reset the tranny will start to do it's learning thing over? And the car came from a subaru dealer (not the same dealer that performed the flush) and said we have the remainder of the original warranty so hopefully if there is a problem that requires any repair or a tranny replacement it will cover it.

[new2theru]

Thank you for the help and for the info guys I really appreciate it!! I will be calling the dealer tomorrow to have the reset done (on there dime if possible) it seems like something they should have done after the flush to learn the actions of the new fluid anyway.

[ClimberDHexMods]

There should be no need to do a relearn after flush unless the old fluid was seriously broken down. But your situation is unique.

 

Relearn, and clear codes, are two different buttons. Clear codes is level 1. Learned parameters reset is level 1 and 2. You want the highest level of reset/relearn. Just say re-learn procedure, as there are actual operator tasks to perform such as driving at X throttle position, per computer instructions.

[ClimberDHexMods]

I didn't even do a relearn going from stock VB to Hex modded VB. TCU figured it out. that's why I think you're screwed with a burned steel or clutch disk or 15. I've been there, and done a full teardown and analysis myself, and your symptoms are akin to my old symptoms. Good luck.

[DRoc7822]

Its been my experience that dealerships must not know anything about transmissions. Cause back in the day, I took my 08 Mazdaspeed 3 into the dealer to have the tranny fluid replaced and the tech actually came back out to me and informed me that there was no such thing. He kept saying something about the brake fluid. So at least your guy knew cars had some kind of fluid in there lol. Its a start.

[boostedgrocerygetter]

Reputable? They used the wrong fluid.

 

in no way was i saying that the dealer her went to was reputible. thats why they did not warn him of the harm a flush could do.

[ClimberDHexMods]

There are good dealer service centers, and bad ones. It all comes down to the technicians and shop culture. Many are disgustingly unethical, and under-experienced. I've also had seen some do great, efficient work that has made me happy. With the power of online reviews, it's not hard to sort out where to go. I found my new guy on yelp.

[new2theru]

It's really hard to beleive that they can be so stupid and hard headed the service guy Brad tried to convince me that DEX III was completely compatible to ATF HP even after I showed him the manual that stated DO NOT DEXRON III or damage WILL ossur to the transmission. He even went on to say thats what they always use and have done so many times. I can only hope that maybe they will learn that there is a difference in fluid for the 5EAT and the 4EAT and not do this again to someone else in the future that doesn't catch it so quickly as I did. But I doubt it .

[ClimberDHexMods]

It's nice to be able to hide behind your dealership to avoid the accountability of a smaller shop, where they fire you after several expensive screw-ups. Clearly Brad attended "the seminar" if anyone catches my reference!

[m sprank]

^ Exactly. Here the local dealers will not even let you speak with the tech who worked on your car. You dont get past the service advisor. You cant ask questions, find out what steps were taken, nothing. They slam the door on you. More than frustrating. I have towed cars out of the dealerships before to bring them to my shop and fix them. Never get to ask any questions, always get treated rudely.

[AZP Installs]

The trans fluid on any subaru automatic is very important. They a) need to be filled with the correct amount. Many lube shops will just put in whatever they want and normally over fill the trans or dump the trans fluid and fill the front diff since they don't know there are 2 fills and b) of course use the correct fluid. Not saying this dealer did that but hey anything is possible.

 

I would say first check the front diff and trans fluid levels. The front diff is on the passenger side behind the turbo. It is a low-full dip stick so as long as its in the middle you are good. The fluid should be a yellow color (or close) and clear to see through. The trans is on the driver's side and can be hard to see since it is covered by the AC and fuel lines. Subaru fluid (if that is what they used) starts red and becomes brown over time and is much thinner than the front diff fluid. Again should be clear. Now on the trans dip stick there is a cold and hot low-full. Make sure it is where it is supposed to be when hot/cold.

 

I've looked over cars where the dip stick is way over filled and the customer complained of the trans acting weird. Once the trans has the correct amount it is normally much happier. If the shop used the wrong fluid it will take a few drain and fills to get all the old fluid out. Hope this helps with the diagnosis.

 

-Jake

[fishbone]

It's really hard to beleive that they can be so stupid and hard headed the service guy Brad tried to convince me that DEX III was completely compatible to ATF HP even after I showed him the manual that stated DO NOT DEXRON III or damage WILL ossur to the transmission. He even went on to say thats what they always use and have done so many times. I can only hope that maybe they will learn that there is a difference in fluid for the 5EAT and the 4EAT and not do this again to someone else in the future that doesn't catch it so quickly as I did. But I doubt it .

This is quite a simple affair, really.

Conference SOA on the phone either with Brad or his supervisor.

 

You are a paying customer that is concerned the dealer is not abiding to SOA's recommendations, which means who knows what else are they not abiding by. My dealer sold to my independent shop Dex 3 for my 5EAT as well. I ended up with 40% of the wrong ATF in. Drove it about a year like that, slow, fast, easy, hard. It did not ruin the transmission but the ATF was spent and had to be replaced.