frank_ster Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 No, should never have any knock. Good luck on that o2 sensor, my N/A has gone through 4 of the buggers. I've never actually logged A/F from the normal o2 sensor, so I actually have no idea what it should read at WOT. no knock is actually used and should some times knock on normal cars. the computer trys to have as much timming advance on the limit of knock. so that's why a iam of .7 .8 is normal. if it would never see knock the iam would advance to 1.0 the n/a cars probablly run 14.7 afr all the time. that is why they are good on fuel even when beaten. i can data log my 2.5I this weekend but i'm sure they don't tread far from 14.7 on wot. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 no knock is actually used and should some times knock on normal cars. the computer trys to have as much timming advance on the limit of knock. so that's why a iam of .7 .8 is normal. if it would never see knock the iam would advance to 1.0 the n/a cars probablly run 14.7 afr all the time. that is why they are good on fuel even when beaten. i can data log my 2.5I this weekend but i'm sure they don't tread far from 14.7 on wot. Interesting! My N/A is old, so logging is a bit of a different beast. I don't even get IAM as a parameter, though that may just be the ECU definitions for my 01. Also don't have any of the FLKC type stuff on it, so I've always seen knock just read 0. I'm not too shocked that it doesn't read past 14.7, but I'm pretty sure mine never ran that lean at WOT. My N/A has always been pretty nasty rich, and my 03 2.5RS was the same way. May be a world of difference from the newer ones though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnout8488 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Grab a multimeter and look at check the voltage at your ECU for your MAF, the vacation pix should give you pinouts and specs. My guess is that you have a wire in the harness intermittently shorting to ground. Only going up hills for extended periods of time though? I've got the service manual and a multimeter. If all else fails, that's where I'll hunt. Snagged an O2 sensor on Amazon that will be here tomorrow too . 80 something bucks. I'll try to find a datalog of a 2.5i in the tuning forum and see if 14.7 is normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 can you use ecu flash and down load the rom and post that ? Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnout8488 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 I've got it on my laptop at home - I'll upload it in a few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 10-4 .. the maps will say what the target afr is. but all the n/a gm cars run stoic all the time these days. the only reason for the 12-1 afr is to cool the pistons, newer engines are built to deal with the added heat of simple wot no boost. but peak torque is at like 12-1 so simply making your car richer will actually gain some hp. but not as eco friendly Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Only going up hills for extended periods of time though? I've got the service manual and a multimeter. If all else fails, that's where I'll hunt. Snagged an O2 sensor on Amazon that will be here tomorrow too . 80 something bucks. I'll try to find a datalog of a 2.5i in the tuning forum and see if 14.7 is normal. Possibly, our NA Outback had a phantom issue that happened intermittently. I tried everything I could think of for months, including testing voltage at the sensors. We then took it to a Subaru specialist who had it for 3 weeks and gave up. Finally brought it one of the dealers in Denver, they had it for a week and finally found a TPS wire shorting to ground in the harness, which I swore I checked. Intermittent issues are frustrating and you've thrown a good amount of time and money at it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnout8488 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 The forum won't allow me to attach a .hex file, bleh! I really hope it's not wiring, that sounds like a nightmare to find out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slickvic Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 The forum won't allow me to attach a .hex file, bleh! Just change the .HEX extension to .ZIP and upload it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I really hope it's not wiring, that sounds like a nightmare to find out! That's kind of what I was alluding to... with hindsight I think I would have brought my wife's car in on my issue a lot sooner had I known what frustration it would cause me and the time I worked on it. The $600 I end up paying for wiring harness and labor was well worth the frustration I had gained while trying to pinpoint it.. In your scenario you've put a lot of time in to this, as well as a lot of money throwing parts at it... if it's something elusive it might be better for your sanity to bring it in.. I say that only from my own experience with an intermittent crazy problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnout8488 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Taking it somewhere might be the next step before selling the car I just bought a Volvo S70 and it's kind of phased the Legacy out of the lineup of cars that I use often. However it might prove very useful this winter if I don't get a set of snows for the Volvo. But you're right, having all the knowledge to fix it doesn't mean anything when it comes to the frustration it takes when trying to solve the problem. Can't attach a zip :/ "Valid file extensions: csv gif jpg pdf png" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 so.. make it .csv .. it doesn't matter .. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnout8488 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Ah I see what you mean The rom is 1.0Mb, which exceeds the allowed limit by a lot anyway, so I can't upload it as a csv either However, I got the new O2 sensor in, and got a log from my last run with it. I didn't experience the stink or the flashing cruise today. Plus, the car seemed to fire up quicker and run a little smoother. Let me know if you see a big difference in the readouts.romraiderlog_20110811_185804.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 the log looks fine but the light didn't come on .. but the air fuel ratios seam more consistent ! let me know if this solves your problem. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Those AFRs and rear o2 readings look a whole lot nicer. The log is a bit odd, as the rear o2 reading flatlines near the end along with some others, but up until there that looks more like what I'm used to seeing on my N/A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnout8488 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Frank, I e-mailed you my ROM. That's great to hear guys I think we might have tackled this. Now I can take the car on trips again and not lose my cruise control halfway through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 picture attached is the openloop airfuel for your 2.5i .. it only goes rich over 4000 rpm Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Those AFRs and rear o2 readings look a whole lot nicer. The log is a bit odd, as the rear o2 reading flatlines near the end along with some others, but up until there that looks more like what I'm used to seeing on my N/A. looks like he was going down hill with foot off throttle. overrun kicked in so no fuel what so ever was going in . Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Ah ha, that makes sense. Never tried to read someone else's logs before, guess I shouldn't assume it's just a flat gear pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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