OBXT to Bilstein XT

[BAC5.2]

I still have the spacer drawings sitting on my desk. Haven't had time to make them.

 

Right around $800-$1000 depending on springs, still less than a proper set of coilovers.

[Rhitter]

This is perfect...Do you have a full list of all the parts that are needed? May I ask roughly what the parts ran? And lastly how much better does it handle?

 

"We recently purchased a '08 OBXT LTD 5MT, the wife really wanted an Outback"

 

Cheers,

Jim

 

I went the expensive route. I spent around 1500 (Springs, shocks, all new mounting hardware), but I did the installation myself. The Fred Beans Parts conversion kit for $1000 it includes a lot of parts you do not need if you looking to do it as cheaply as possible. Old parts can be reused. My car has 70k miles on it and I wanted to replace everything.

 

BAC5.2 has a nice write up of the parts needed here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/my-bilstein-obxt-setup-154057p3.html.

Don't forget the Legacy bumpstops, they are cheap.

 

If you do the installation yourself you can probably do it for a little over $1000. If you are handy with tools you can save another ~150 making the spacers yourself.

 

Handling - there is a huge difference.

Stock the car has a lot of sway, the back sways a lot, the car dives (and swoops?) a lot while braking or accelerating. This is all gone now.

 

Every time I drive it I think, "this is how a car should feel." If you have been in any BMWs it feels very similar to them, imo a little better (the ride is a little more compliant.

 

If your wife wanted and Outback because of the ride height. This is not the route to take. This thread details the alternatives: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/81-wheels-tires-brakes-suspension/28368-2005-2009-outback-suspension-faq.html

 

I still need to take it on some mountain roads to see how it really handles, but daily driving is very improved.

[Rhitter]

No issues with the tires clearing the spring perch up front?

 

What's the ride quality like? How composed is the car now?

 

This is why I want a proper set of coilovers - the spacers look a bit questionable and spring choice will be really limited since all the good ones are designed to lower the Legacy.

 

Pinkie width I think. It's pretty close. I havn't been in the snow yet so I am not sure if it will cause me any issues. Based off of others experience (BAC5.2) I am not expecting any. But it is possible that snow will get caught up there and cause some issues.

 

Ride quality = awesome and composed (BMW like, sway bars would make it even better)

 

I know a lot of people generally run 1 inch spacers all around, so hopefully 1.5 doesn't cause any issues. Only time will tell though.

[Impatient]

I'm trying to get a couple questions answered. First, here's where I'm coming from. I bought some wierd used JDM Bilsteins for a 00-04 Lancaster (= Outback). Struts are long, like Outback; Mounted rears with stock OBXT springs. Ride height = stock. Not sure what mounting the fronts are going to do. I think this is going to take some experimentation / fiddling / mix-n-match. I want good ride, handling, but not necessarily wanting to reduce ride height or travel to legacy level.

 

Now, the questions:

 

1) if stock Legacy ride height is 2.5" lower than OB, and if OB has 1" body spacers, ~ 1" shorter struts, is the other 1/2" due to shorter springs? 1/2" probably isn't worth it, but IF THAT LOGIC is sound, then maybe Pinks or similar would provide ~1" to 1.5" drop on an Outback, with perhaps improved ride. 1-1.5" drop from stock Outback sounds acceptable to me.

 

1b) are there even Pinks for Wagon's?

 

2) Those "wierd" bilsteins came with Zoom aftermarket springs. The rears were WAAY too short, and too soft; so I am using stock OB springs at moment. I'm not sure on the fronts yet. But a lesson on FRONT tophats is my real question. The top 3-bolt pattern on the top "Strut Mount" included with these Bilsteins doesn't seem to match my car. So must replace that "Strut Mount." I assume I can use my stock ones, but the whole JDM top hat thing has me confused. Does the shock matter, or the spring, or just the desired ride-height or cushioning? I am using the wording "Strut Mount" to match opposedforces.com wording, but the question really needs to include the upper spring seat (Spring seat-front strut, upper per OppposedF). http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b13/type_45/suspension_and_axle/front_shock_absorber/

 

I wanted to figure this out before removing the currently-functioning front struts to prevent disabling the car waiting for some part.

 

And I wanted to get a little beyond the SubaruOutback.org thinktank because they (we) have little experience with Bilsteins, any springs other than stock or raised-height, and alternative tophats.

[Rhitter]

I'm trying to get a couple questions answered. First, here's where I'm coming from. I bought some wierd used JDM Bilsteins for a 00-04 Lancaster (= Outback). Struts are long, like Outback; Mounted rears with stock OBXT springs. Ride height = stock. Not sure what mounting the fronts are going to do. I think this is going to take some experimentation / fiddling / mix-n-match. I want good ride, handling, but not necessarily wanting to reduce ride height or travel to legacy level.

 

Now, the questions:

 

1) if stock Legacy ride height is 2.5" lower than OB, and if OB has 1" body spacers, ~ 1" shorter struts, is the other 1/2" due to shorter springs? 1/2" probably isn't worth it, but IF THAT LOGIC is sound, then maybe Pinks or similar would provide ~1" to 1.5" drop on an Outback, with perhaps improved ride. 1-1.5" drop from stock Outback sounds acceptable to me.

 

---Honestly I don't know. I didn't dismantle my stock outback struts or do a direct comparison, besides holding them next to each other. It looked to me to be a little more than ~1 inch shorter struts.

 

Bilstein +stock JDM spec b wagon springs + 3/4 inch spacer = 2 inch lower ride height. I think adding Pinks to the stock struts might make you just sag lower into the travel.

 

1b) are there even Pinks for Wagon's?

 

---Yes - Bac52 ordered them.

 

2) Those "wierd" bilsteins came with Zoom aftermarket springs. The rears were WAAY too short, and too soft; so I am using stock OB springs at moment. I'm not sure on the fronts yet. But a lesson on FRONT tophats is my real question. The top 3-bolt pattern on the top "Strut Mount" included with these Bilsteins doesn't seem to match my car. So must replace that "Strut Mount." I assume I can use my stock ones, but the whole JDM top hat thing has me confused. Does the shock matter, or the spring, or just the desired ride-height or cushioning? I am using the wording "Strut Mount" to match opposedforces.com wording, but the question really needs to include the upper spring seat (Spring seat-front strut, upper per OppposedF). http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b13/type_45/suspension_and_axle/front_shock_absorber/

 

---The Bilstein top hat is required for JDM like spring (Pinks, lot of US lowering option etc)

 

[Impatient]

thanks! I had some wrong assumptions built in there. No Legacy lowering springs for me.

 

I may cut the stock front OB springs slightly to avoid a height INcrease from struts / JDM tophat, then minor cut in stock OB rear, which I can further adjust with the adjustable perch on the rear Bilsteins. None of this does anything to "match" the Bilsteins & the spring rates.

 

I may not end up quite as low as yours, but let me repeat, I like how yours looks. Now, about that gas mileage increase....still getting that, or was that a anomaly?

[easton]

Impatient,

 

I think you will be disappointed with that setup, it will probably be a bit bouncy. Get the LGT stock wagon springs and a set of Bilsteins. It really is perfect. I've been driving on that setup for about three weeks now and I am pissed that I didn't do it sooner. 1/2" spacer in the back and the car is perfectly level and an absolute joy to drive. It really does drive like a 3 series now.

[Impatient]

Easton, can you tell me why it would be bouncy? Is it "wrong springs" or "wrong something else." What would be wrong with stock springs cut to provide 1" less travel? (which might match travel these struts were designed for). What is your hub to fender flange distance?

 

Here's why I am optimistic:

1) higher perches take place of spacers, EXCEPT my Bilsteins also have longer travel than the Bilstein HD's. But I plan on sending these to Bilstein for "tuning" or at least rebuilding.

2) I'm still thinking there can be a spring that will give me 16"-17" hub to fender flange spacing (more than OB2.5XT's with all his spacers, and not more than stock. I would actually like 16"...which I gather is basically stock non-USDM...such as Bilstein BTS).

 

But I admit, I don't know what springs would provide that...or what springs "match" the Bilsteins. It might be better to have 00-04 springs. I don't think there is enough weight difference between Gen 2 & 3 to really matter, but the "progressivity" might be different.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Impatient

[kromwell]

OB2.5XT, Exactly which springs did you use? OEM LGT wagon springs? You have nailed the ride height I'm looking to acheive and I'm thinking about copying your setup. Thanks!

[Rhitter]

Hey, I bought springs off another member here. They are JDM - Subaru JDM Spec-B Rev-C wagon springs.

 

If I were to do it trying to use US parts I would use Legacy GT (wagon) rear springs and Legacy Spec-B front springs.

[kromwell]

I don't suppose you still have the part numbers handy? I've found a few sites that import the springs, but decoding the alphabet soup was a little challenging since the referenced models are all for the Japanese market.

 

Also, do you know of any spacers that will work with the STI tophats and struts? I saw that yours had to be widened a bit. Thanks again!

[Rhitter]

I think BAC5.2 made a custom pair that work with the Spec-B tophats, he has one extra for sale. They were designed with pinks in mind so I think they are slightly taller than what I have. All others require some modification.

 

I do not know the part numbers sorry. The box is being stored at my parents house. I just went outside and couldn't see anything on my car.

[Impatient]

moved to:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/another-bilstein-outback-story-200481.html

 

 

Thanks ssbtech (below)

Edited January 27, 2013 by Impatient

[ssbtech]

No harm in starting a new thread to document your project! I'd like to know how it turns out.

[DK76]

Just to contribute here. Got Billstein HD Spec-B installed on my OBXT. Had to install 1/2 inch spacers in the rear. Stance is perfect.

[ssbtech]

That looks good! A touch higher for me would be better.

 

So you got the Bilstein HDs and which springs?

 

Any front spacer?

 

Do tell us how well it rides and handles

[Rhitter]

I finally got around to buying / installing a rear sway bar and reinforcement brackets. It makes a huge difference.

 

Went with a Whiteline 20mm adjustable. Used the stock endlinks (those were fun to unbolt) and I currently have it on the "softer" setting.

 

Really should have done this sooner. The back is planted and actually turns with the car now.

[ssbtech]

I've had a COBB bar on the back end of my OBXT for a long time now. I agree that it's a worthwhile piece.

[Rhitter]

My stock rims are pretty beat up. Decided to Plasti-dip them "Vintage Gold" Overall they are a little too gold. But I am happy with the change.

Before

http://i.imgur.com/PvfVdfu.jpg

After

http://i.imgur.com/DLascu9.jpg

 

It will be interesting to see how long this stuff lasts.

[ssbtech]

As I sit and wait for my 2nd left strut to show up, I put the right side together.

 

Is it critical that the spring seats top and bottom perfectly or will it settle in once installed on the car? The lack of windings on the spring made it impossible to get the spring compressor in properly and let me center the top of the spring whilst still being able to get the compressor out.

 

I know this isn't exactly setting engine timing, but I'm unsure of what degree of precision is required here.

[Rhitter]

Is it critical that the spring seats top and bottom perfectly or will it settle in once installed on the car? The lack of windings on the spring made it impossible to get the spring compressor in properly and let me center the top of the spring whilst still being able to get the compressor out.

 

Any pictures? I can compare what you have to the pictures I took while I was installing it and let you know if I see a difference.

[ssbtech]

Here's a few:

 

http://s1089.photobucket.com/user/ssbtech/library/Bilstein%20bits

 

Thanks

[DOHCstunr]

I never understood why you OBXT guys go and lower them. The OBXT is what it is, and it is great at that. Embrace the ride height and abundant ground clearance.

 

As soon as you lower it its essentially trying to make it something its not. It's never going to handle well, and it will never be quick.

I loved my old 2.2 96 Legacy OB 5mt Limited and I friggin loved the ride height. Put 333,000+ miles on it before I cashed out.

 

Is this phenomenon from teenagers that are unhappy with their hand me down cars?

Edited July 9, 2013 by DOHCstunr

[ssbtech]

Some of us hate the floppy, wallowy ride of the stock suspension.

 

For others, the Outback XT was the only way to get a manual wagon. They killed that off in the Legacy back in 2006 I think, but the Outback XT was available with a stick right until 2009.

 

I bought the Outback thinking the handling would be acceptable after owning a 2003 Outback, but as time went on I couldn't tolerate it.

 

And no, I'm not a teenager whining about my hand-me-down

[DOHCstunr]

Some of us hate the floppy, wallowy ride of the stock suspension.

 

For others, the Outback XT was the only way to get a manual wagon. They killed that off in the Legacy back in 2006 I think, but the Outback XT was available with a stick right until 2009.

 

I bought the Outback thinking the handling would be acceptable after owning a 2003 Outback, but as time went on I couldn't tolerate it.

 

And no, I'm not a teenager whining about my hand-me-down

Well that's reasonable. I know 5mt wagons are rare. I was an OB purist and hate to see them butchered.

Install some firm struts and stiffer swaybars, and spend some coin on a solid (but complimentary) wheel with excellent tires and just enjoy them for what they are.

 

Don't forget to keep a set of stockers around wtih some Blizzaks or :cool:a/t's