cd_legacy Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Ok, so after buying my Legacy and logging some miles on the car, I noticed the clutch felt different from other vehicles I have driven and it was a pain to engage it from a stop. I was told this was a Subaru thing and to not worry about it and try starting in second gear a couple of times to clean the glazing off the PP and FW. HAHA, this is no joke. Anyway let me explain what was happening. First, I would sometimes notice a creeking sound when I pushed the pedal to the floor. Annoying and very loud. The other isuue was the clutch felt like it had two engagement points, first right off the floor, and the second right before the peddle was completely out. So there was a long "in between" point in pedal travel. This made the car a PITA to drive in traffic. I researched this forum and the best advice was to "start in second gear a couple of times to clean off the glazing" I mean, do people actualy do this? I cant justify burning my clutch from a stop to clean off glazing that was formed from burning the clutch in the first place? I decided replacement was a better option and I also converted to the WRX single mass FW setup. What a change! Clutch action is normal and engagement is toward the top of the pedal travel. No chatter or gear noise. (Exidy OEM stage clutch kit/14lb LWFW) Anyway, here are some pic's of the old clutch and FW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted May 27, 2011 I Donated Share Posted May 27, 2011 That looks like the disk is unevenly worn, and the PP and flywheel have quite a bit of hot spotting. There is a fine amount of friction material on the disk, though. I wonder what kind of abuse the car got to have that issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yea, looks like someone loved to clutch drop/drag race a lot. Thats a LOT of hot spotting. I'm not easy on my clutches, but I've never had one look like that. Ouch If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd_legacy Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 ^ haha that's what I said when it was removed. Since I bought the car, the clutch never seemed to have normal action and just dismissed it as a Subi thing because this is my first. I can now see why the car was a PITA to drive. My girlfriend loved the car until she drove it, now she hates it. I have never drag launched it or slip the clutch excessivly. It seems from a little research, the clutches are spent around 80k miles on the GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted May 27, 2011 I Donated Share Posted May 27, 2011 I had 91,500 mi on my car when I took out the engine, and replaced the clutch before I put it back in. I'm not sure if it was the original clutch, but it had just started to slip a bit in high-torque situations shortly before removal, so I think it was. Clutch feel was great up to the time I took it out -- short but linear engagement range, fairly close to the floor. My guess is yours was severely abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd_legacy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 ^ I agree. The previous owner, I wont mention gender, most likely slipped the clutch a lot. I was shocked when the clutch was removed. It never slipped and I never smelled "burt clutch", I just couldn't stand the action and non-linear engagement. The new setup is so much better now and I dont seem to have the idle issues and gear noise associated with a LWFW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ControlFreak Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 The other isuue was the clutch felt like it had two engagement points, first right off the floor, and the second right before the peddle was completely out. So there was a long "in between" point in pedal travel. This made the car a PITA to drive in traffic. I'm so glad you wrote this because that is exactly how my clutch feels. You said this was fixed when you replaced the clutch, but do you think it's because of the new clutch or because you changed over to the WRX single mass flywheel? I've test driven a few manual WRXs and their clutches felt normal. Mine is the only manual LGT I've driven though, so I don't have a point of comparison for the dual mass flywheel. FWIW mine is a 2005 LGT with original clutch with 67k miles. I've had it for 6 months and 10k miles with no change or degradation. The clutch has that weird engagement, but it doesn't slip. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 This has me wondering if my clutch is normal too. I just bought my first Subaru on Memorial Day, LGT 5 spd, and the clutch is far different than my 99 M3 or my 95 Maxima I used to own. It's actually a pain at times, but I have not had any slipping or any burnt smell. The engage point is much closer to the floor. With the clutch fully depressed, letting the clutch out it engages fairly quickly but not that out of the ordinary from other clutches I've driven, just maybe a tad sooner. When shifting 1st to 2nd, you pretty much have to press it all the way to the floor and that is where the difference is. With my M3 and old Maxima, you get to about half way and it will up shift nicely...and if you leave a red light running out first and quickly shifting into 2nd, past half way to about 75% and it up shifts no problems. The engage point into the higher gear is also at that mid point. With the LGT, you need to get the clutch pretty much to the floor, and then after the upshift, the engage point is much lower and really throwing me off. I can't seem to get that good 1-2 or 2-3 shift and engagement. Is the engage point normally lower like that on the LGT? I don't have the symptoms of a bad clutch, and read car reviews and such stating that 'the clutch action all happens at the floor' so I attributed this as a Subaru LGT thing. Any input, and anyone who has driven the LGT and a E36 M3 or 95-99 Maxima able to give me an idea if the clutches are normally different like I'm experiencing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted July 4, 2012 I Donated Share Posted July 4, 2012 Is the engage point normally lower like that on the LGT? Yes. I'm actually surprised the Maxima and M3 didn't require you to push the clutch all the way down to shift. Every car I've driven that had a properly-adjusted clutch did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Yes. I'm actually surprised the Maxima and M3 didn't require you to push the clutch all the way down to shift. Every car I've driven that had a properly-adjusted clutch did. Ok, I figured it was normal but it's different enough to make me wonder. This has definitely been a different clutch feel for sure. Yeah, you could shift without going all the way down, but I also drove both the LGT and M3 today and paying more attention, the clutch travel is also slightly different and I think that's throwing me off a bit (the LGT is a much more heel to toe down where the M3 is a slightly more push feel). It's funny because when I went from the M3 to the Maxima, I used to marvel at how much lighter the Maxima clutch was. Now, I go from the LGT to the M3 and marvel at how light the M3 clutch is! I guess I'll give it a bit more time to really get used to the clutch:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazingAsura Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 So I recently purchased a rather abused LGT with a 5 speed. I say abused because the shortblock had to be rebuilt, and the turbo replaced, and so on. It's my first manual, so I have gotten the burnt clutch smell because of mistakes, but that's the only time I've smelled it. The only other manual I've driven recently is a BMW 5 series, which I didn't like. Reading this thread, I am wondering if maybe my tranny could use a good fluid change? It's got 108K on it, and considering what the previous owners did to the engine, I don't know about the transmission. It shifts fine, from what I can tell, and I account any problems with user error, since I'm learning my way around it. Would it be highly recommended to change the fluid then, to see if that may help with it? "What's God, if not the spark that started life?" ~ Last Ride of the Day by Nightwish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 the burnt clutch smell has nothing to do with the tranmission fluid. check your fluid, if it looks clear, you don't really have to worry about changing it if you're not having any sort of issues with it. if you are, then perhaps try replacing it with Extra S fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 At first I thought you had reposted my pictures, they look pretty similiar. My symptoms were that it wouldn't disengage at all. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/clutch-wont-disengage-all-could-bei-187536.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soloz2 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Very similar to my story... Purchased my 06 with 78k and has always been a pain to drive especially in traffic as it seems to have two engagement points. Now 20k later the TOB is making some noise and the engagement seems like it got worse then a little better. Idk... I'm ordering a exedy clutch kit when I get paid tomorrow Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2 Current: 16 Crosstrek Premium w/ Eyesight & 05 Outback XT 5MT Past Subies: 14 FXT Premium, 14 WRX hatch, 06 Legacy 2.5i SE 5MT, 98 Outback wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Just a note to my posts in post #8 and #10, my clutch was worn. I had a trans issue with it popping out of reverse gear whenever I would start reversing and took it to Subaru. Had a trans rebuild and was told the clutch was worn. I went with the 07 LGT clutch kit that has the SMFW, and all I can say is WOW what a difference the new clutch is! Engagement points are normal and similar to my 99 M3 and old 95 Maxima. Not only that, but the pedal is lighter but that I heard is from the SMFW...the gearbox is not as notchy either. So, it looks like the engagement right at the floor, and having to completely depress it down is not normal. I had no slippage, but it was worn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted October 2, 2012 I Donated Share Posted October 2, 2012 I thought the engagement point rose higher when the clutch got more worn? Makes more sense that way on a push-type clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 The engagement I had was all the way to the floor. With the clutch depressed all the way to the floor, as soon as I lifted at all, it would start to engage. And, to shift into any gear, the clutch had to be depressed completely. With all other manuals I have owned or driven, you did not have to completely depress the clutch all the way down to shift...going a bit beyond half way was good. Also, with the clutch fully depressed you had a little let out before it would start to engage and not immediately on basically the floor like my car was doing. Now with my new clutch, it's like night and day. With the clutch depressed, there is a little let out and it starts to engage nicely, and after engagement, there is quite a bit of travel before the clutch is let fully out. I agree with 'thefultonhow' that usually as a clutch wears that let out gets higher and higher until it's almost an on-off action. However, there should be some small let out from the floor before engagement begins like I have now. It's been that way on all the manuals I have driven before. It is strange though that on my old LGT clutch the on-off was at the floor instead of the full release point. I have only had this car since May (Memorial Day) and put only 2k miles on it, so I have no idea what kind of abuse everything was under, but my reverse gear had missing teeth and a worn clutch in 30k (previous owner claims he put a new clutch in at 30k, so that's 2 clutches now and 62k on the clock) so obviously the car has not been well cared for...until now It's also my first Subaru so I wasn't sure if this was normal or not...based on the before and after, it was not normal. Also, the gear box was quite notchy before, where now it's a lot smoother and easier to get into gear. Again, I didn't know if it was normal or not to be that notchy (plus I read on here that it can be like that) but I guess the feel I have now is what is normal and the other feel is another sign that things may not be so good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamba6 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Sounds like my situations are similar to OP and mines going to be needing replacement soon. I find that mine engages right at the floor/a half inch or so.... then you can feel a second spot close to the top of the peddle being let off. Also feeling like my car is slipping a little but I haven't really smelled any burning. What do clutch kits for these cars go for? Also what is a good flywheel without breaking the bank. How hard is it to do a clutch replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted January 22, 2014 I Donated Share Posted January 22, 2014 I find that mine engages right at the floor/a half inch or so.... then you can feel a second spot close to the top of the peddle being let off. That is normal a lot of the time. Also feeling like my car is slipping a little but I haven't really smelled any burning. I am suspicious, then. Put it in 4th or 5th at 2500ish RPM and floor it. If RPM rises faster than speed, your clutch is slipping. If it doesn't, it's not. Mine also only slipped when I got it heated up from a hard launch. What do clutch kits for these cars go for? Also what is a good flywheel without breaking the bank. $300-700, depending on how much power you want to hold. Get the WRX/07-09 LGT single-mass flywheel. If a clutch doesn't fit on that, you probably don't want it. How hard is it to do a clutch replacement? It worries me that you are asking this. Generally, people who ask don't know what's involved, so they probably aren't ready. How much mechanical experience do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamba6 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Don't get me wrong, I'm sure if I need help on getting this done with someone that's done it before, I can. I try to do all my own mechanical work but just curious tools and all of what I would need to do it. Time wise it takes... how big of a pain in the ass. See if its something I'm going to be paying another 500-1000 for someone to fix, I'd prefer to learn it myself and make it a teaching tool for future use. (I'll eventually need to do my S2000) I'll double check on the clutch/rpm. What does a turbo problem usually do when you give the car gas? (I know blue smoke is a big one) what happens when its not able to maintain the pressure/seals are going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamba6 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Oh, and I took a trade school in High School for Auto Mechanics and learned a good amount, along with Autobody for College ( I needed to do suspension, steering, Alignment, brakes, heating, Electrical) to graduate.. So I mean.... I know how to turn a wrench. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted January 23, 2014 I Donated Share Posted January 23, 2014 Don't get me wrong, I'm sure if I need help on getting this done with someone that's done it before, I can. I try to do all my own mechanical work but just curious tools and all of what I would need to do it. Time wise it takes... how big of a pain in the ass. See if its something I'm going to be paying another 500-1000 for someone to fix, I'd prefer to learn it myself and make it a teaching tool for future use. (I'll eventually need to do my S2000) I'd say give yourself four full days the first time you do it. And make sure to soak the dowel pins with plenty of PB Blaster or Aero Kroil. What does a turbo problem usually do when you give the car gas? (I know blue smoke is a big one) what happens when its not able to maintain the pressure/seals are going? If it's not able to maintain the pressure, it's broken. Period. All or nothing. If the seals are going, you'll get major oil consumption. It's also possible it has shaft play -- too much and you'll hear a whine and/or marbles in a blender, which indicates the fins are rubbing against the walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamba6 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's also possible it has shaft play -- too much and you'll hear a whine and/or marbles in a blender, which indicates the fins are rubbing against the walls. Is there any possibility that when the wheel is turned to the left... the more you do it and the more you get on the gas, the more you will hear that sound? I'm just hoping its not the Differential that's making that sound on me that I hear. If turbo... well then I know its fresh and good to go for the time I'll probably own the car now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted January 23, 2014 I Donated Share Posted January 23, 2014 Is there any possibility that when the wheel is turned to the left... the more you do it and the more you get on the gas, the more you will hear that sound? Sounds like a wheel bearing to me, or maybe an axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.