TheOneDoubleN Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I never said that the ECU knows what gas is in the tank and I never said that it advances timing based on any knowlege that it has a higher octane to work with. What I said is that the ECU always trys to advance timing to get the most performance that it can using whatever is in the tank. If it can advance timing a wee bit more because there is no knock signal from the sensors because the engine is burning a higher octane gas, then it does it because that is the protocol of the program. It's an alagorithym, nothing more. Not because it "knows" anything. You are putting words into my mouth. Look again and read it through without jumping to conclusions. I'm not jumping to anything actually, I believe you are. I never said anything about the ECU knowing what gas you're running, rather I said that it does not cater to the higher octane, or in your words: "What I said is that the ECU always trys to advance timing to get the most performance that it can using whatever is in the tank" Does that clear up the confusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamr Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Yup. if it was 6 X .16 oz it would be much more reasonable. Nordeast is definitely a nice smooth brew. It was hard as hell to get that stuff when it first came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Damn ChasWG, You sound like one hell of a condescending jerk! Sorry to "randomly jump into your conversation", but I do know what I'm talking about. Now you'd be "putting words in my mouth", which is what you were bitching about me allegedly doing in the first place! How do you know everyone on this thread is an idiot except for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 You're awesome. A car tuning god. A veritable cornucopia of sage advice rivaling any master technician. I am nothing. No need to cover that again in your answer. TIA Tell him what he wants to hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I understand what you are trying to saying, but by your own admission you say you don't fully understand how it works. You are also suffering from the same malidy that OneDoubleN suffers from. You don't read fully. And they are all calculated into that majical black box that controls the engine. :spin:I too am no tuning noob as you as you say, but I understand a lot more about how our cars really work. More so than you think. :spin:I've built cars up from nothing but a rusted body shell and returned them to their former glory. :spin:I've built and tuned race engines. I've modified engines (internals and bolt on stuff) to get more HP, more RPMs and better reliability out of them. And I've been successfull at it to. I've built and sold modification parts for performance cars, some of which I still get calls about building "just a few more" parts even though I've retired from doing that. [i am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome] So yeah, maybe I do know something you don't. It's pretty obvious from your statements above. [i am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome] But how can you be so sure of yourself? :spin:There you are wrong. :spin:Have you ever done any kind of engine mapping with a quailfied system? :spin:I've done a lot of ECU work with one of my former turbo cars. And talking with the experts at APR (Audi Performance & Racing) they confirmed to me what I am telling you here. The ECU does both, advance and retards timing. And before you freak and say, "Well maybe with a Audi or VW engine...", no, Subaru ECUs work pretty much the same way.[i am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome] Your idea is very wrong. It wasn't that hard to find the huge hole in your logic. The ECU uses all it's sensors to continueously adjust the engine. or do you just not drive that far? [i am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome] Also, so you think that just a turbo car has any kind of tuning or ECU control. Just keep thinking that. And what "rest of us" are you refering to? You and one other guy don't get it. That's not an overwhelming group of people. :spin:Yeah, there's no waste gate to control, but the engine has other things it can do to change how it handles it's environment. Obviously you've also never messed around with a big block Chevy engine with a huge carburator and points type ignition. [i am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome] Busted out a timing light and played with the rotation of the distributor and see what that does to engine performance. [i am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome] Take apart one of those distributors and see how timing was advanced back in the day, then you will start to understand the basics of internal combustion engines.[i am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome] I suggest you look into how an internal combustion engine actually works before you respond.[i am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome] You obviously think you know more than you really do.[i am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome, I am awesome] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasWG Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Wow! You guys are really great. So this is how you argue and discuss? I guess if you have no real knowledge to base your acusations off of you just start calling names. Excellent and oh so adult! Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I didn't call you names, and I made no accusations. If you've got actual knowledge to lay down I'm all about it. This isn't how you go about educating people. Start over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasWG Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Never had a knock that you heard. And that's what the knock sensor is for, catch the knocking before it's serious and tune down. Exactly! That's how it works. Not every knock (pre-detonation) is a devistation event. There are other smaller signs of knock that are also detectable. EGT is a huge one. All the sensors work together to constatly adjust engine performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 My question is how can it constantly be trying to squeeze out more performance without constantly running up against that ceiling? It makes sense to me that there is a baseline it constantly tries to maintain for safety. I do not understand constantly trying to push out more. So you're running 87 and it notices it gets knock when pushed hard. Why would it keep pushing? If I go and put 93 in it now, it would have to push the envelope to notice it's leaving power on the table wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasWG Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 I didn't call you names, and I made no accusations. If you've got actual knowledge to lay down I'm all about it. This isn't how you go about educating people. Start over? Seriouly dude? I'm done with you. You dare say that crap after the BS fake quote above? Really, you're not worth the time. Waste of Skin comes to mind with you. I learned what I know to be true through lots of hard work and research. Go out into the internet world a search for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I see. That's unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasWG Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Clear the BS and appologise like an adult first. You pull that crap and now you want me to explain more? I would fully be willing to do this if you first act like a resonable person. I didn't start any crap with you, didn't you start it by asking me if I knew something that everyone else didn't? This thread will be purged of most of this crap real soon I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I meant that tongue in cheek. If that pissed you off than I am sorry. I'll PM you with the rest of this since I'd like to stop crapping up what was a perfectly good thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasWG Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 Hey, why start acting like an adult now? Keep on crapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Clear the BS and appologise like an adult first. You pull that crap and now you want me to explain more? I would fully be willing to do this if you first act like a resonable person. I didn't start any crap with you, didn't you start it by asking me if I knew something that everyone else didn't? This thread will be purged of most of this crap real soon I'm sure. I clicked that "Search" button on your post Chas, and in nearly half of all your posts, you are putting someone down, touting yourself, or being condescending and sarcastic. The rest of the time, you are misspelling words like "conversasion" and others far worse that just make you sound, well, dumb quite frankly. I won't doubt the vast amount of experience you claim to have with everything car related, but you don't have to be a dick to everyone about it. Seriously, you might want to read through your old posts, the vast majority either make you sound like a douchebag or an idiot, some have both! There are some really nice, helpful, and knowledgable people on these forums; you are not one of them. I also searched through SurlyOldMan's posts. He is one of the nicest, insightful, creative, and intelligent (despite what you think) people on here. The fact that you ripped him a new A at nearly every possible opportunity, even when he was trying to make a friendly joke during your ranting attack at him, really says a lot about you Chas. But I'm sure you don't care what people think about you here, you're above everyone on the forums anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredraud Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Well chaswg you are partly wrong on how the engine controls timing. There are reference tables in the ecu based on load and rpm. In closed loop driving, the ecu uses what ever number for advance is in that load and rpm cell. If there is knock, it will add counts to another table for that load Now when the counts get too high it decreases a multiplier that is used against the first table I was talking about. After some time it will attempt to increase the multiplier back to one. Generally speaking, the ecu will never advance more than what the tables are. On turbo cars, if your ECM is pulling timing, you soon will be pulling the engine. more advance does not mean more power. Knock could happen at 10 deg more advance past the point where you make peak power. Or it could never happen. So knock sensors are not used to find the optimal or advance where you make peak power, that is what the dyno and tuning is for. As far as power, if you have no knock on 87 or 93 you will have the same power, provided the fuels have the same calorific value per cc. And no higher octane does not burn hotter Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasWG Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 I clicked that "Search" button on your post Chas, and in nearly half of all your posts, you are putting someone down, touting yourself, or being condescending and sarcastic. The rest of the time, you are misspelling words like "conversasion" and others far worse that just make you sound, well, dumb quite frankly. I won't doubt the vast amount of experience you claim to have with everything car related, but you don't have to be a dick to everyone about it. Seriously, you might want to read through your old posts, the vast majority either make you sound like a douchebag or an idiot, some have both! There are some really nice, helpful, and knowledgable people on these forums; you are not one of them. I also searched through SurlyOldMan's posts. He is one of the nicest, insightful, creative, and intelligent (despite what you think) people on here. The fact that you ripped him a new A at nearly every possible opportunity, even when he was trying to make a friendly joke during your ranting attack at him, really says a lot about you Chas. But I'm sure you don't care what people think about you here, you're above everyone on the forums anyway. You really read every one of my 330+ posts? I wish I had your free time and ability to speed read. And you are just a perfect person aren't you? Fake quotes, generalizations and attacks and you have the audacity to call me out? Yeah, there are some really nice people on this forum and I've made friends with some. You are neither. Why don't you go and re-read some of what you wrote in just this thread and see if it stands up to your critisim of me. At least I'm not flat out calling people names. So I mis-spell a few words from time to time. Are you the internet spelling bee champ? Goodie for you! Answer me this, what have you contributed to this thread? Anything of value? Go play in the kiddie poole. (that last one was for you!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 This thread is now dead. Try to keep it civil in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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