Most excellent frst time at the strip

[rporter]

We had our semi-annual Drag Day at Lapeer (MI) Dragway on Saturday 5/7 that I set up in May & October each year. It s a Test-N-Tune day, so we are out to socialize as much as run the cars.

 

Anyway, the basics:

 

Temp 68-72 degrees

Barometer: 30.00

Humidity: 75%

Wind: N-NW at ~10 mph (the track runs east-to-west)

Altitude: 800' above sea level

 

It rained overnight Friday night, and was a beautiful day, but the humidity was high, and the baro was low.

 

My car: Basic fully loaded GT Limited wagon, 5-speed manual, 10.5K miles, with a Hidden Hitch on it. I installed my Rota SDR 7-spoke & Pilot Exalto PE2 tires the day before. FWIW, the combo is 3#s lighter than stock (Rotas are 17x7.5" with std 215/45/17 tires). Oh, and I also got my Accessport, and downloaded the Stage 1 93 Map the night before. I had a half-tank of gas, my 208# butt in the seat, and I pulled out the jack/spare, but left in mats and all of the other stuff (I figure that the jack/spare about equal the hitch weight. I ran 50 psi in all four tires.

 

Trying to get the launch down, the first three runs were around 14.4, 14.5, and a horrible 14.9. I was slipping the clutch TOO much, and was banging the limiter in 1st. I didn't get timeslips, as Lapeer is a family-run strip, and you get your slips at the concession stand in the pits (my buddies heard the times being announced). Someone else had my same car #, so they got my first three slips. Amenities are crude, but the strip was totally resurfaced in '99 and is in good shape.

 

Anyway, after changing my car # and getting slips, my next five runs were:

 

13.981 (2nd best trap speed: 98.48)

14.191

14.352 (best trap speed: 98.87)

13.928

13.904

 

The full last two runs were (without listing the bad R/Ts, which I could care less about when I'm learning the car at a T-N-T):

 

60': 1.986 1.983

1/8: 9.003 8.973

1/8: 81.61 81.71

1/4: 13.928 13.904

1/4: 97.93 97.01

 

I launched at 4K, with a fast-street-type clutch release. What was interesting is that, as I got better on the launch, I got no clutch stink (unlike the first three runs where I slipped the clutch too much). IMHO, dropping the clutch just right is not much tougher on the car than running an automatic!!

 

I was quite pleased! When I first loaded the AP Stage 1 map, the car felt no quicker, but (as other posters have said), the car runs better as the ECU "learns" the program.

 

I'll be out again in October, but my first outing exceeded my expectations. Before then, I'll try the car at Gingerman in June and Putnam Park in July to see it's road course capabilities.

[SUBE555]

Wow, nice work!

[KTM 525]

Sweet! 13's out of one of these things is very nice.

[TSiWRX]

Holy crapola! 13's basically stock in a fully loaded wagon?

 

Nice work indeed!

 

-A

[rporter]

Thanks!

 

I'll have to get it down to the United Van Lines scales one of these days, but yeah, it's a fully-optioned 5MT Limited wagon (without any of the roof rack stuff). Only changes from the day it left the dealership are:

 

Hidden Htch trailer hitch (33#s)

Rota SDR wheels w/Exalto PE2s (3#s lighter per corner)

AccessPort, and I loaded the Stage 1 93 map.

Mobil 1 5w-30 (synthetic since 1,700 miles, now at 10.5K)

 

I haven't even cracked the airbox to see what the filter looks like!

 

I didn't try any runs without the AP, because the AP will always be loaded, so a "pure stock" run was of no interest to me. Plus, the ECU needs time to "learn" the new program, so jumping back & forth between maps at the dragstrip would be counterproductive. IIRC, a Limited wagon is around 150#s heavier than a base GT sedan, and "think" about 50#s more than a regular GT wagon (I don't like the new Subaru.com site, it was easy to get to the "Spec" sheet on their old site). If someone has one of those models, and weighs less than my 208#s, I can easily see a "pure stock" 5MT LGT hitting 13s.

 

Plus, if you run in weather that is cooler, with less humidity and a higher barometer, that will also help

 

With my very first runs in the mid-14s, it is, as others have said before, all in the launch. I will suspect that if you are seeing trap speeds of 97 or better on a given night at the dragstrip, you have the car putting out the power to get you to the 13s.

[Driver72]

Holy crapola! 13's basically stock in a fully loaded wagon?

 

Nice work indeed!

 

-A

 

 

Well, not exactly...he did say he's loaded Stage 1 93 Octane CAP.

However, it was done only the night before, so I'd say just on that alone

it probably wasn't running to the full Stage 1 potential as it takes

a good couple hundred miles of driving before the ECU fully takes advantage

of the reflash. He also dropped 3 pounds per corner rotational mass.

 

I'd say, in a BEST case scenario a loaded LGT Limited Wagon would

do in the 1/4 is

14.1 @ 96 mph

 

So his 13.9's @ basically 98 mph isn't too bad for what he had.

The 60' times looked pretty good being in the 1.9's...helped a lot

by the lighter wheels/tires I'm sure.

 

My guess is, with the ECU fully adapted to the reflash and with a few

more runs you should see

13.8 @ 99 mph

Which for the Limited Wagon would be great!

 

Nice work first time out!

[rporter]

Well, not exactly...he did say he's loaded Stage 1 93 Octane CAP.

However, it was done only the night before, so I'd say just on that alone

it probably wasn't running to the full Stage 1 potential as it takes

a good couple hundred miles of driving before the ECU fully takes advantage

of the reflash. He also dropped 3 pounds per corner rotational mass.

 

I'd say, in a BEST case scenario a loaded LGT Limited Wagon would

do in the 1/4 is

14.1 @ 96 mph

 

So his 13.9's @ basically 98 mph isn't too bad for what he had.

The 60' times looked pretty good being in the 1.9's...helped a lot

by the lighter wheels/tires I'm sure.

 

My guess is, with the ECU fully adapted to the reflash and with a few

more runs you should see

13.8 @ 99 mph

Which for the Limited Wagon would be great!

 

Nice work first time out!

 

The car had under 50 miles on the Stage 1 reflash (47 miles, to be exact) before I got to the strip. Now that I've put a coupe of hundred miles on the car since Saturday, it is DEFINITELY running better, so I do feel that the AP Stage 1 reflash was not fully "operational" yet at the strip last Saturday.

 

The drop in rotational weight matters, but I'm also heavier for driver weight, and my guess is that the hitch almost offsets the jack/spare being removed. Plus, I would rather run below a 1/4 tank, with the most ideal being the "Low Fuel" light coming on as I pull in to the track! It was just below 1/2 tank when I got there (bad planning!).

 

I will plan another of the Drag Days in early October (will be the 5th Annual Lapeer Fall Meet!). With the cooler weather, a fully acclimated Stage 1 map, and checking the air filter (!!) which I've never looked at since new (and I drive a lot of dirt roads), I will predict times in the 13.60 range, with a possible squeak into the 13.50s. This SWAG is based on 1-2 tenths for cooler temps/lower humidity/higher barometer, plus another 1-2 tenths for the acclimated AP Stage 1 map and more driving (launching) experience. I will also have the gas level down where I want it for track work.

 

Now that I've made the estimate, it probably won't happen, but it sounds reasonable at this point!!

[Driver72]

I hope you can hit 13.6's on just a CAP Stage 1 93 Octane and lighter wheels.

BUT...I think that's a bit optimistic for a Limited Wagon. Maybe a base Sedan.

I agree, pulling the spare compensates for your hitch (so one negates the other).

 

I also wouldn't run the gas TOO low, hard launches will slosh the gas to the rear

and swirl it all around, and if the fuel pump ends up getting air, it could be bad

for your engine. I think between 1/8th and 1/4 tank would be best.

Not too low, but not too much.

As for your weight...you said 208 pounds...that's not to much above average.

It's not like you are a 250+ pound linebacker.

Sure if you were 140 or something, it would help a bit, but the difference is about

the difference between running a full tank of gas and one with 1/8th tank.

 

Anyway, good luck...I'll stick to my "best" prediction of 13.8 (maybe high 13.7's) @ 99-100 mph.

[firedawgs]

I knew our car was 13s worthy, I just needed someone to prove it.

[Driver72]

Huh?

 

A couple people have hit high 13.9's stock, both Limited LGT sedans.

 

The poster is not stock however, so getting into the 13's even with a Stage 1 CAP

should be no problem on a good track, on a nice day.

[firedawgs]

Yes, but he is just learning how. Mid 13s should be the goal here.

[rporter]

I hope you can hit 13.6's on just a CAP Stage 1 93 Octane and lighter wheels.

BUT...I think that's a bit optimistic for a Limited Wagon. Maybe a base Sedan.

 

Anyway, good luck...I'll stick to my "best" prediction of 13.8 (maybe high 13.7's) @ 99-100 mph.

 

I'll go with a 13.6x prediction, provided I run in weather that is below 60 degrees (preferably 50 or lower!), a more normal humidity, and a typical clear-day barometer of 30.20 or (hopefully) higher. I'm sure that just my driving technique refinement can be worth a tenth

 

Some cars are more senstitive to heat than others, but as this is my first intercooled turbo car, I've noticed that the power difference is very noticeable in colder weather.

 

I don't run anymore in the summer months as the hot weather makes it pointless (from a personal-best type scenario that we go for on Test-N-Tune days), but it should be interesting come October. I'll be posting times then, regardless of how it goes!

[rporter]

I will plan another of the Drag Days in early October (will be the 5th Annual Lapeer Fall Meet!). With the cooler weather, a fully acclimated Stage 1 map, and checking the air filter (!!) which I've never looked at since new (and I drive a lot of dirt roads), I will predict times in the 13.60 range, with a possible squeak into the 13.50s. This SWAG is based on 1-2 tenths for cooler temps/lower humidity/higher barometer, plus another 1-2 tenths for the acclimated AP Stage 1 map and more driving (launching) experience. I will also have the gas level down where I want it for track work.

 

Now that I've made the estimate, it probably won't happen, but it sounds reasonable at this point!!

 

I'm resurrecting this old thread, as I made a prediction back in May, and I turned out to be spot-on.

 

I posted over on the official 1320 thread with some of the details:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21501

 

I got a best of 13.616 @ 99.50, with a 1.896 60' The run before this was a 13.645 @ 99.60 This was after parking it for 40 minutes. A bunch of back-to-back runs soon after arriving were in the 13.80s. Lletting it sit about 20 minutes after the 13.6x runs netted two in the 13.7xs.

 

As I have found on these colder nights, temps below 50 really wake up the car. 13.50s would have been doable on Saturday with a bit more cooldown, less gas weight, and more stuff pulled from the car, even in the 55-57 degree weather. If I can run in sub-50 degree weather with the extra weight out, a 13.50-flat or better does not seem unreasonable.

[j.reed]

Nice time, I have an uppipe and the Stage one and put down a 13.3, I think everyone else's cars are a lot faster than they feel good dirving them.

 

I've only raced with nearly a full tank of gas, I think with these colder temps and less gas I could get 13.2.

[rporter]

Nice time, I have an uppipe and the Stage one and put down a 13.3, I think everyone else's cars are a lot faster than they feel good dirving them.

 

I've only raced with nearly a full tank of gas, I think with these colder temps and less gas I could get 13.2.

 

That sounds totally reasonable.

 

The dragstrip is open until 12/4, and if there is a Saturday with temps under 50 degrees, I'll give it another go before winter. Running less gas, and getting the rest of the extra weight out shoulf be easy 13.5Xs, and I expect a high 13.4X.

 

I don't regret gettig the wagon, but the same setup in a sedan like yours (about 60-70 less #s) or a non-limited sedan (about 135#s less) would get me a tenth or two quicker.

 

FWIW, I am very impressed with the car, and especially with Cobb's AP. By far the best bang-for-the-buck of any single mod I've done over 35 years of playing with this stuff!!

[j.reed]

An evo driving friend of mine both have this same look on things, if you don't drive it that way, you don't race it that way. I don't take the spare out, my cds, or my school book (yes, just one). We only race our cars in conditions that we would have it in if we were running to get gas.

 

I look at those people who rip out their interiors as 'cheating'. Just a jack and spare isn't bad, but its not my thing.

 

I'm going to see about getting to the track before the end of the season. I already ran in cool weather, but not cold weather

[rporter]

I never pull seats or other bolted-down parts, but anything loose (jack/spare/mates/etc) is a way to standardize to a common denominator. Does that mean you don't check/change tire pressures, either?

 

Driving at the strip is not like the street. The car could even be quicker on the street with a downhill grade, even with a full tank of gas a stuff in the back. Granted, it's less of an issue with AWD that doesn't spin the tires. but conditions are different. Regardless, if you consistently prep the car the same, it is easier to get a baseline. There are enough other things that you can't control, like weather.

 

I haven't run into it for a few years, but some tracks also do tech inspection, and the trunk must be basically empty and no loose stuff in the car (usually the bolt-down spare is exempt.....but not always). I also have to strip EVERYTHING out for road course events (they even noticed that I didn't pull out my garage door opener a few weeks ago). It's now my standard "drill" for any car event (and my old tent tarp has been used more than it ever did for camping!)

[Magowin]

What kind of tire pressure do you guys recommend for the drag strip?

[rporter]

I run 50 all around. Since I normally run 36-38 on the street, it's not that much of an increase.

 

If the strip I go to had an air hose, I would probably go the 55-60. Just takes too long with my small compressor to do that!! On my former FWD cars that I ran at the strip I would go to 55-60 in the rears.

[HansGT]

Nice time, I have an uppipe and the Stage one and put down a 13.3, I think everyone else's cars are a lot faster than they feel good dirving them.

 

I've only raced with nearly a full tank of gas, I think with these colder temps and less gas I could get 13.2.

 

 

are you using the Cobb map? I know PDX has one with structured with an Up pipe and reflash. http://www.pdxtuning.com/solutions.htm

 

you might get you even better results....or of course get a downpipe and flash to stage 2. With how your running 13 flat should be possible at stage 2.

[KTM 525]

I look at those people who rip out their interiors as 'cheating'. Just a jack and spare isn't bad, but its not my thing.

 

 

Cheating? Are you kidding? I go to the track for one reason for the best ET I can get. If I can lose 100lbs (see free HP) and pick up a tenth I am gonna do it. Simply put YOU RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG period. Strapping in a nitrous bottle must be beyond cheating then. Listen as long as your raceweight is stated and you are truthfull about current mods it's an open book. If your car is 300lbs lighter than mine and you are going three tenths faster at the same track on the same day then I need not scratch my head (or claim your a "cheater"). Afterall I could pull the weight out of my car as well. If I dont or cant be bothered doing so it's my choice. After saying this I realize everyone is entitled to their own opinion and now you have mine.

[rporter]

Cheating? Are you kidding? I go to the track for one reason for the best ET I can get. If I can lose 100lbs (see free HP) and pick up a tenth I am gonna do it. Simply put YOU RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG period. Strapping in a nitrous bottle must be beyond cheating then. Listen as long as your raceweight is stated and you are truthfull about current mods it's an open book. If your car is 300lbs lighter than mine and you are going three tenths faster at the same track on the same day then I need not scratch my head (or claim your a "cheater"). Afterall I could pull the weight out of my car as well. If I dont or cant be bothered doing so it's my choice. After saying this I realize everyone is entitled to their own opinion and now you have mine.

 

Yep, I agree. That's why on this forum (and others in the past), I probably go into too much detail on the car weight items and track conditions, so that people can get a better feel for where things were at when I ran.

 

Besides, how many people do a 1/4-mile race on the street? You may have a quick jump off a light, do a 10-20-30 mph roll out to 50-60-80, etc. None of these have any relevance to a dragstrip run. From some runs at the strip I've had against a Hemi Charger, Lightning truck, and an SRT-4 (all folks I know), we know how the 1/4 mile runs turned out, but we later discussed which cars were stronger at certain points during the run. On the street, depending on how you race, the LGT could beat them all, or lose to them all, depending on the contest....irrespective of what happened at the sragstrip.

 

To pull nothing at the dragstrip is the drivers choice, but other folks who pull things aren't "cheating" (what about FWD or RWD folks who run drag radials at the track??). I personally don't ever pull out seats, but others are fine with it.

 

It's as KTM 525 says, as long as it's disclosed, that's fine. FWIW, I could pull all the seats out, and I still wouldn't be as light as a non-Limited LGT sedan.

[j.reed]

If I'm really concerned about losing parts of my interior, maybe I should have bought a faster car, or just loose some weight myself.

 

Car and driver got a Honda Civic I believe and they gutted the thing, the took the roof off, the interior, the exterior, they even put two spare tires on the back instead of the large heavy stock ones. It was basically a frame with a motor. I hardly think anyone in the civic community is going to say its "The fastest stock civic". (I personally even run stock tire pressures)

 

I'm also not a fan of custom race-only maps, if its to increase drivibility and fuel econmy, fine, but if you're switching to a map only while at the track becuase its pushing your car to its breaking point, thats just not right.

 

There are a lot more useful things to do to a car to make it faster rather then taking out a 30lb spare tire.

 

And KTM, did you forget that you posted to this topic and post again 3 hours later or what? I thought it was a double post at first.

 

rant done! we're really off topic now...

 

 

are you using the Cobb map? I know PDX has one with structured with an Up pipe and reflash. http://www.pdxtuning.com/solutions.htm

 

you might get you even better results....or of course get a downpipe and flash to stage 2. With how your running 13 flat should be possible at stage 2.

 

Isn't that a ECUTek flash? Where can I download/purchase this map if it is actually for my accessport?

[KTM 525]

Yeah I biffed up. The post I made did not show up originally. Oh well you get my take on it anyway. I respect your opinion I just dont agree with it. I'll run my car the way I want to and my conditions will be listed. With your take on things why bother modding the car at all then? Leave the stock map in there. You are OK with an AP stage-1 map but not a race map. Where do you draw the line? There's no difference as they are both maps for increased performance. Forget fuel economy and drivability most do it for performance. I hope you respect my opinion you just dont have to agree with it.

 

BTW even though you do not have the fastest time on the board here I look at your car with great admiration. Your weight,mods and ET/MPH are great. You have some great potential ahead of you!

[MDTURBO]

if you're making an accurate compairson between our cars and the times they run, they should all be kept at roughly the same weight. removing 100lbs skews the results. That being said, if you can strip down your car to the frame and run a great time, go for it; but you wont get the same props as a full curb weight/a/c/seats/etc setup like most of us on the 1/4 list have. If you're not looking for props, then by all means go for it. I stripped 200lbs of weight out of my firehawk. :O)