T-Rexky Posted October 29, 2010 Author Share Posted October 29, 2010 Somehow I stopped getting updates of new thread posts so I missed everything new since my last post. Anyhow, I have reinstalled the stock end links a while ago and I have not heard anything hitting under full compression. I also repeated my putty test and it appears that there is approximately 5mm clearance between the bar and the lower arm under compression. Still a bit close for comfort, particularly since it might get closer if the bump stops compress a bit. But it is an acceptable interim solution - I just don't trust that the stock end links will hold up for a very long time carrying more than double of their design loads. In the last few days I noticed a faint dull noise from the back when going very, very slowly over a speed bump with my right rear wheel. I'll have to have a peek under the car to see where it is coming from, but it definitely is not anything bottoming out. Perhaps the bar is shifting in the bushings, or maybe something got a bit loose. T-Rex's first pic showed some marks, that IF they were from the impact would have shown in the video. My guess is those marks are from more drastic suspension movement than what he can muster with his wife (with all due respect). The actual clunk might be from something else..perhaps the backside as BMX045 suggests, or perhaps from a muffler or pipe. I highlighted the area that is contacting in the photo that I attached in the first post. Sharp eyed will notice that there are some marks on the bar within the circled area. These marks were actually there before the bar got installed. The actual contact point is much larger and it has completely worn through the powder coat on the bar in the few days of driving that I have done with the short end links. I'll have to touch the area up before winter. In any case, if you look where the circled area is in the photo and then watch the same area carefully in the video, you will notice that the bar (just behind the flat end) and the lower arm come into contact. You can also see that the whole end link shifts a bit during the contact - I can only imagine what loads it is carrying compared to normal operation. Did you guys ever get this issue resolved with Rallitek and if it can be fixed? I was looking at order sway bars from them as well, but if this is still an issue, I'm just go with Whiteline instead. I spoke to Ron at Rallitek late last week and he indicated that they were planning to redesign the rear bar for the shorter links. In the mean time it looks like the rear HD end links are no longer listed as compatible with the Legacy. I have not discussed any additional details yet, but I will obviously stay in contact with Rallitek until a permanent solution is available. I would like to have this fully resolved before the real winter hits here in Ontario... I will post when I have any news, but I would also suggest that if anyone is concerned they contact Rallitek. For those really impatient, the Outback section of Rallitek site has 90mm (adjustable?) AVO end links, which coincidentally is the length of the factory end links on my Spec.B. I sent Ron a link to this thread, so they are aware that there are many others experiencing this issue. This is my first dealing with Rallitek, but I am getting an impression that they are determined to make this right. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Rexky Posted November 2, 2010 Author Share Posted November 2, 2010 In the last few days I noticed a faint dull noise from the back when going very, very slowly over a speed bump with my right rear wheel. I'll have to have a peek under the car to see where it is coming from, but it definitely is not anything bottoming out. Perhaps the bar is shifting in the bushings, or maybe something got a bit loose. So it turns out that the "dull noise", more of a thumping, is coming from the front end rather then from the rear. I checked the end links and the sway bar brackets and everything looks tight. The noise seems to be worse when the car has been sitting or driving in cold environment. When warmer, it does not seem to be there at all. Will keep looking to see where it's coming from. I am getting tired of all the troubleshooting... TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.hicksta Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 I have the Rallitek HD end links with Whiteline front and rear sway bars. This is exactly what I'm hearing when I drive. Time to get some new endlinks....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Rexky Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 I have the Rallitek HD end links with Whiteline front and rear sway bars. This is exactly what I'm hearing when I drive. Time to get some new endlinks....... But the end links only have 2000 miles on them. So unless I am really unlucky and got bad new links, I'm thinking that it's the bushings or something else that got loose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.hicksta Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Oh my bad!!! I was saying I need to get new endlinks. My RSB is hitting in the exact same area as yours is in that video. I had noise before with the Kartboys, but it's even worse with the Rallitek HDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Put the stock endlinks back on or get longer ones. I can't believe we're still debating this, it's been proven. Even rallitek says so. The video exhibits a clunking, now lets be done with this already.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoobie Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 You shouldn't have to run stock endlinks with this RSB. That is a design flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 they admitted it was a flaw, and said they are only to be used with lowered legacy's. solution: put stockers back on or get longer endlinks..... I ran into this problem and called rallitek, I put the stock ones back on for now and no more clunking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 ^ Wait a minute...... So it turns out that the "dull noise", more of a thumping, is coming from the front end rather then from the rear. I checked the end links and the sway bar brackets and everything looks tight. The noise seems to be worse when the car has been sitting or driving in cold environment. When warmer, it does not seem to be there at all. Will keep looking to see where it's coming from. I am getting tired of all the troubleshooting... TR He's saying that it's coming from the front. ?confused? T-Rexky, if it's coming from the fronts - it might look tight, but it's not - get under there, and tighten them. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Rexky Posted November 4, 2010 Author Share Posted November 4, 2010 ^ Wait a minute...... He's saying that it's coming from the front. ?confused? T-Rexky, if it's coming from the fronts - it might look tight, but it's not - get under there, and tighten them. Yeah, I can see how it's a bit confusing considering the thread title... sorry. The rear noise is gone ever since I installed the stock end links back, as expected. I did indicate this somewhere in one of my previous posts. The only remaining issue is the link durability under more than twice the design loads. I'm waiting for Rallitek to address this. Since a week or so ago I have a different noise, this time coming from the front. Something sounds loose, but everything seemed tight when I dove under the car with some wrenches. I kind of suspect the bushings. Will look again on the weekend. As I noted - I am getting tired of all the troubleshooting and fault isolation. First the rear interference and now the front noise. I expected the setup to fit well with no interference or excessive noise issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 ^ Damnit, that sucks indeed. Yeah, one of the biggest things I have - now that I'm older and have less time to play on the car - is the seemingly endless "little things" that want for attention (being that we are car-guys/gals ) on a modified vehicle. I'm more and more thinking I should just get something hellaciously expensive true performance/sports-sedan of German origin...and just dropping it off at the dealership for warranty service and picking up a loaner. From being a DSMer for all those years before this, I'll tell ya one thing I've learned. There ain't nothin' that's ever a "bolt on." Best of luck, bruddah! <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Rexky Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 ^ Damnit, that sucks indeed. Yeah, one of the biggest things I have - now that I'm older and have less time to play on the car - is the seemingly endless "little things" that want for attention (being that we are car-guys/gals ) on a modified vehicle. I'm more and more thinking I should just get something hellaciously expensive true performance/sports-sedan of German origin...and just dropping it off at the dealership for warranty service and picking up a loaner. From being a DSMer for all those years before this, I'll tell ya one thing I've learned. There ain't nothin' that's ever a "bolt on." Best of luck, bruddah! Thanks and no kidding! It's a shame though, because it is not really that difficult to design factory fit. What may be difficult is to build it at a reasonable price while making some profit. The good thing is that Rallitek seem keen on fixing the issues, so I'm looking forward to having it all work well in the end. My GF drives an S4 (in addition to an SVT Focus), and it's an awesome car to drive. Quirky as hell though once it gets older - full of gremlins and unreasonably expensive to fix. After she "discovered" my Spec.B and drove it a few times she decided the S4 was her last Audi TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 ^ My wife leases - she lacks mechanical empathy, and no matter how well I maintain her vehicle (it gets the same treatment my car does, when I'm underneath it, which is also at the same time that I do mine), it just leads a much harder life. I'm also tempted to lease - like you said, even today, older German high-performance sedans seem to develop expensive quirks or other life-sustaining requirements - but I just can't make myself that "non-vested" in the car I drive, if you get my meaning? RalliTEK has always impressed me with their level of customer-service and their responses to the community: I have faith that they'll do you right, too. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Rexky Posted November 9, 2010 Author Share Posted November 9, 2010 I'm also tempted to lease - like you said, even today, older German high-performance sedans seem to develop expensive quirks or other life-sustaining requirements - but I just can't make myself that "non-vested" in the car I drive, if you get my meaning? RalliTEK has always impressed me with their level of customer-service and their responses to the community: I have faith that they'll do you right, too. I know exactly what you mean. I like to own the vehicle and to know it inside out. I like to do as much work on it myself as well, if I can. The free time, unfortunately is an issue. Since a week or so ago I have a different noise, this time coming from the front. Something sounds loose, but everything seemed tight when I dove under the car with some wrenches. I kind of suspect the bushings. Will look again on the weekend. I think I have a conclusion to the front knocking noise. I put the car on the ramps over the weekend and had a good look underneath. Everything was good and torqued to spec. I noticed approximately 1/8 inch of a gap between one bushing and the locking ring, so I snugged it up to eliminate any lateral bar movement. Went driving on Sunday and thought the noise was gone, but unfortunately it was wishful thinking... I spent another half hour under the car today looking at everything very carefully. I am now convinced it is the bushings. I could see a little bit of a radial gap between the swaybar and the bushings (see the photo), but I though it was just the outer part of the bushing. I was wrong. When I pull down on the bar the gap closes. So there is play between the Rallitek supplied bushings and the bar. Small suspension movements are dampened by the sticky grease and there is no noise. Large and sudden suspension movements shear the grease film viscosity and the bar jumps up or down depending on the load. I also confirmed that the bar picks up enough heat from the engine while driving to be quite warm to touch around freezing ambient temperatures. This explains why the noise changes depending on outside temperature and whether the car was driven or not. Once the bar warms up the noise decreases. When it is cold it gets much worse. I'm in the process of drafting another email to Rallitek... TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toreadorranger Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 I know exactly what you mean. I like to own the vehicle and to know it inside out. I like to do as much work on it myself as well, if I can. The free time, unfortunately is an issue. I think I have a conclusion to the front knocking noise. I put the car on the ramps over the weekend and had a good look underneath. Everything was good and torqued to spec. I noticed approximately 1/8 inch of a gap between one bushing and the locking ring, so I snugged it up to eliminate any lateral bar movement. Went driving on Sunday and thought the noise was gone, but unfortunately it was wishful thinking... I spent another half hour under the car today looking at everything very carefully. I am now convinced it is the bushings. I could see a little bit of a radial gap between the swaybar and the bushings (see the photo), but I though it was just the outer part of the bushing. I was wrong. When I pull down on the bar the gap closes. So there is play between the Rallitek supplied bushings and the bar. Small suspension movements are dampened by the sticky grease and there is no noise. Large and sudden suspension movements shear the grease film viscosity and the bar jumps up or down depending on the load. I also confirmed that the bar picks up enough heat from the engine while driving to be quite warm to touch around freezing ambient temperatures. This explains why the noise changes depending on outside temperature and whether the car was driven or not. Once the bar warms up the noise decreases. When it is cold it gets much worse. I'm in the process of drafting another email to Rallitek... TR Update on this? Im running the same bar and I am having the same noise problem. Ive been under the car at least 10 times with no luck, but I will check for this clearance when Im under it next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Rexky Posted November 19, 2010 Author Share Posted November 19, 2010 Update on this? Im running the same bar and I am having the same noise problem. Ive been under the car at least 10 times with no luck, but I will check for this clearance when Im under it next. Nothing definite yet. I talked to Ron at Rallitek and he thinks that it could also be the lock collars hitting the frame just on the outside and above the bushings. He indicated to me that Rallitek are looking at some kind of a solution for this. In the meantime I ordered a set of Energy Suspension bushings, P/N 9.5126, and I will see if these address the knocking. I talked to Energy Suspension and the bushings should be a bit more snug around the bar and will also put the bar a little bit lower (farther away from the frame). I should have them some time next week and will post the results. Also no news yet on the permanent solution from Rallitek for the rear, although the stock end links seem to be holding up for now. TR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toreadorranger Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 I replaced my swaybar bushings with a greasable set from Energy bushings. my clunk from the front end seems to have gone away. I can tell the 22mm bushing set from energy is tighter on the bar then the rallitek set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoobie Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 I bought a set of the new Hotchki's F/R sways from FBP. Tired of the clunk and time to go more aggressive anyhow. New sways and LCA bushings in the spring and I'm done with suspension. Now just hoping that the new RSB will fit with my Bosal v.1.5 exhaust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Rexky Posted November 24, 2010 Author Share Posted November 24, 2010 I replaced my swaybar bushings with a greasable set from Energy bushings. my clunk from the front end seems to have gone away. I can tell the 22mm bushing set from energy is tighter on the bar then the rallitek set. Glad to hear it! I am looking forward to getting my set (non greasable). It's coming to Ontario all the way from California by ground, so it's taking two weeks. Hope this will fix my noise as well - it's getting worse as the temperatures drop... I bought a set of the new Hotchki's F/R sways from FBP. Tired of the clunk and time to go more aggressive anyhow. New sways and LCA bushings in the spring and I'm done with suspension. Now just hoping that the new RSB will fit with my Bosal v.1.5 exhaust Cool. I have a set of pinks to put on in the spring. Then probably exhaust & AccessPort. Hoping to stay with Rallitek sways as their stiffness suits my DD well... TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Let us know what you think of the Energy bushes and post up some pics of your install so others can see what these look like and how they fit up (especially given the "drop" factor). - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toreadorranger Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 I didnt take any pictures but You have to cut the passanger side bushing bracket. Since they are a universal fit bushing/bracket. I just took some real rough measurements and zipped it off with a cut off wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Rexky Posted December 6, 2010 Author Share Posted December 6, 2010 Nothing definite yet. I talked to Ron at Rallitek and he thinks that it could also be the lock collars hitting the frame just on the outside and above the bushings. He indicated to me that Rallitek are looking at some kind of a solution for this. In the meantime I ordered a set of Energy Suspension bushings, P/N 9.5126, and I will see if these address the knocking. I talked to Energy Suspension and the bushings should be a bit more snug around the bar and will also put the bar a little bit lower (farther away from the frame). I should have them some time next week and will post the results. Also no news yet on the permanent solution from Rallitek for the rear, although the stock end links seem to be holding up for now. TR. So my ES bushings finally arrived late last week and I installed them over the weekend. The noise is absolutely gone and the front end is now completely silent! For the record, the bushings I ordered are 9.5126G. They are much harder then the Rallitek bushings and are very nice and snug on the swaybar. Unfortunately they are smooth on the inside and do not have small grease retention grooves like the Rallitek bushings do, but they are impregnated with graphite, and with a film of grease they should be good for a (very) long time. I did not want to get the greasable ES bushings because the brackets would need to be modified. The 9.5126G brackets are identical in size to Rallitek, except there is more bushing material between the bar and the subframe... Happy camper. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJoe Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 same problem, lowered 1" front 0.8" rear on eibachs with stock struts.....this is on a Rallitek rear sway with Rallitek endlinks..... maybe I'll try these bushings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 I had some email conversations with Rallitek regarding my endlinks. Basically they admitted that the links are too short even for lowered applications. The offered to give me a full refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toreadorranger Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I had some email conversations with Rallitek regarding my endlinks. Basically they admitted that the links are too short even for lowered applications. The offered to give me a full refund. I swapped out my fronts for a set of MSI's and then with the new bushings the sound has gone away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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