KCwagon Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Took apart the bad STI module and I found this:http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss178/shoneal55esp/DSC00102_zps068e8015.jpg It was full of tiny (dead) bugs that had eaten the plastic covering from the coil and had imbedded themselves on and under the circuit board, creating a mess inside the unit. I suspect the unit was stored improperly before I bought it....Surreal I think I am going to try to clean the mess out with the sticky side of a Band-Aid.... Edited February 5, 2013 by KCwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 how many wires in the plug? looks like a ssr with a capacitor and inductor. a stronger on can me easily made. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCwagon Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 how many wires in the plug? looks like a ssr with a capacitor and inductor. a stronger on can me easily made. Can you make one without bugs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 ^ maybe .. but do i have to read the whole tread first? looks like on can be made with 10$ in parts. can some one post a better picture of one? little closer up and clear ? Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCwagon Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) ^ maybe .. but do i have to read the whole tread first? looks like on can be made with 10$ in parts. can some one post a better picture of one? little closer up and clear ? I have a new STI controller coming. I will take pics of the internals and post them. Scooby2.5 and I were actually discussing the possibility of using an upgraded capacitor and or coil to change the output. No, you don't HAVE to read the whole thread, but it might help Edited February 5, 2013 by KCwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) I have a new STI controller coming. I will take pics of the internals and post them. Scooby2.5 and I were actually discussing the possibility of using an upgraded capacitor and or conductor to change the output. No, you don't HAVE to read the whole thread, but it might help The capacitor, along with the toroidal coil, is a filter. Neither will change the voltage like you want... although the coil is current limiting due to its wire sizes. Then again, so is every wire. mweiner is correct: past the point of the OEM circuit's original envelope there are only two routes to more current to the FP. One is elimination of circuit resistance(s). The other is a complete NEW solution. Given that replacement pump current requirements significantly exceeds OEM capacity, no solution using them will offer long-term reliability without a NEW FPC System... "long-term" meaning OEM-like. Otherwise, Scooby2.5's thorough revisions provide the best solution. Edited February 6, 2013 by SeeeeeYa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 ^ yea the capacitor has to do with the pump . but when the fuel pump is running at full speed the coil and capacitor do nothing. i would make with larger or more transistors and larger heat sink. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 Took apart the bad STI module and I found this:http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss178/shoneal55esp/DSC00102_zps068e8015.jpg It was full of tiny (dead) bugs that had eaten the plastic covering from the coil and had imbedded themselves on and under the circuit board, creating a mess inside the unit. I suspect the unit was stored improperly before I bought it....Surreal I think I am going to try to clean the mess out with the sticky side of a Band-Aid.... Where did you purchase that from???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCwagon Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 It has been over a year ago and I don't remember. I believe I bought this module from a Nasioc member. I am itching all over at the moment as I think these things are BED BUGS. It is now sealed up in a plastic bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCASEYS Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 so any of these will do? http://motors.shop.ebay.com/eBay-Motors-/6000/i.html?_nkw=STI+FUEL+PUMP+CONTROL&_trksid=p2050890.m570.l1313&_rdc=1 I donated to LegacyGT.com which allows me to have this nifty signature. If anything SCASEYS posts ever becomes a sticky i'm gonna light this whole place on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Mike, what are you using for fuel pump control? I run a stock FPCM and stock wiring with a walbro 255 that is over 6 years old and should be replaced. This currently supports about 450hp. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 17amps at 43psi. 18-19 at 60psi. So you put a current probe on the wiring and saw 18-19 amps at 60 PSI and 17 amps at idle? If that is the case you would think mine would already be dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 ^ maybe .. but do i have to read the whole tread first? looks like on can be made with 10$ in parts. can some one post a better picture of one? little closer up and clear ? How about we mail you the buggy one then you dont need to read the thread and you can see how hard it would be to upgrade it to one that handles more current draw. Maybe you can even tell us what rating current wise it might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 The voltage drop across the OEM unit was around 1.5v. It was around 1.0v on the first STi unit I bought. It was 0.1v on the second unit I bought. The second unit completely eliminated my fuel pressure problem, as the pump was finally seeing the current it needed to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 ^ the variable speed pump is to save energy, the 2.5i models dont have it. the pump can easily jump from 33% to 100% with out any problem. larger pumps should have bigger wires. there is two wires going to the pump. the positive is fed from the relay. the negative is pwm to give the pump variable speed. you can easily ground the pump at the sending unit to prevent the pump from running at the slower speeds with out setting any trouble codes. the pump running faster at higher engine rpm i doubt it would be the 110 amp altenator if there arn't any other obvious problems with the car. ie fans start and the car will die. most car companies do the variable speed fuel pump. the earliest one i know of is 1997 buick regal gs and the grad prix gtp's that have a relay and resistor to make the pump run slower. often a problem with the resistor the cars would start then stall. the subaru pwm method is much better and more efficient. By the way Frank this was a GREAT POST!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Just as a side note most of you are using the 04-05 STI part number 22750AA000 Mine was actually an 06-07 STI part number 22750AA010 http://opposedforces.com/parts/impreza/us_g11/type_5/engine_electronic/relay_and_sensor_engine/illustration_2/ Edited February 5, 2013 by Scooby2.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 how about we mail you the buggy one then you dont need to read the thread and you can see how hard it would be to upgrade it to one that handles more current draw. Maybe you can even tell us what rating current wise it might be? sure i can probably fix it and make it for more currant. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 So you put a current probe on the wiring and saw 18-19 amps at 60 PSI and 17 amps at idle? If that is the case you would think mine would already be dead it's actually an amp clamp and I see higher current at idle and lower current towards redline. The more fuel the engine uses the easier it is to pump it to it. Stock Fuel pump is around 6-8 amps. Walbro 255 is around 8-10 amps. AEM 320lph should max out around 14a. Aero 340 should max our around 18a Walbro 460 sits around 19a no matter what (apparently). I also noted this in the first line of the Aero install instructions... "The factory fuel pump wiring may not be sufficient to handle the current draw of the Aeromotive 340 Stealth pump. To achieve the advertised flow at pressure, the use of an aftermarket wiring kit such as Aeromotive P/N 16301, including 10-gauge wire and a direct alternator supply point, is required." Continuing to use the FPCM is futile. You guys want modded faster cars, you lose variable pump control. You want variable pump control? Shell out $1000 for a Fuelabs setup. Or you can wait for this to become available of which I will be a primary dealer... hoping for a $300 price point. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 yea for a car that is modded to the point of needing a fuel pump that size .. whats the point of having it variable speed... other than economy and or emissions at witch point you take a large gauge wire from the battery and run it to the tank and put in a relay. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) it's actually an amp clamp and I see higher current at idle and lower current towards redline. The more fuel the engine uses the easier it is to pump it to it. Stock Fuel pump is around 6-8 amps. Walbro 255 is around 8-10 amps. AEM 320lph should max out around 14a. Aero 340 should max our around 18a Walbro 460 sits around 19a no matter what (apparently). I also noted this in the first line of the Aero install instructions... "The factory fuel pump wiring may not be sufficient to handle the current draw of the Aeromotive 340 Stealth pump. To achieve the advertised flow at pressure, the use of an aftermarket wiring kit such as Aeromotive P/N 16301, including 10-gauge wire and a direct alternator supply point, is required." Continuing to use the FPCM is futile. You guys want modded faster cars, you lose variable pump control. You want variable pump control? Shell out $1000 for a Fuelabs setup. Or you can wait for this to become available of which I will be a primary dealer... hoping for a $300 price point. current probe amp clamp basically the same thing...tomato tomaato Yea I had posted that quote from Aero in an earlier post..... That is interesting what you have measured. Last thing Ill say is this. Technically we are not running the current draw through the stock wiring. We are using the 15a stock wiring feed from the fuel pump relay to TURN ON a relay that is controlling battery voltage straight from the battery. Just like Aero says to do. The only difference we are doing is running that new relayed battery wire through a STI FPCM. If the FPCM of the STI variety can handle 20 amps we should be fine. I will say that is the unknown. I have been running mine this way for over a year. Edited February 5, 2013 by Scooby2.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) yea for a car that is modded to the point of needing a fuel pump that size .. whats the point of having it variable speed... other than economy and or emissions at witch point you take a large gauge wire from the battery and run it to the tank and put in a relay. I am not sure economy has anything to do with it. It is easier on the pump I would say. When you dont need the pump to run at 100%, why do it? The issue is those running higher horsepower with E85. It takes 30 percent more fuel. When this problem originally cropped up for me I was running an AVO pump. The legacy was never sending more than 11.7 volts to the pump. When we saw the fueling problem on a higher horsepower E85 tune the first thing we did was swap the pump and the AFR's dropped 1 point just from going from the AVO pump to the Aeromotive pump. The reason for the Aeromotive pump was because I was in Plano at Cobb tuning working on it in the parking lot and thats all they had in stock. So I just left it that way. We then found the Legacy dropping 2 volts from the fuel pump relay under the dash to the back of the car at the legacy FPCM. So we rewired and still were not getting full battery voltage to the pump until we swapped to the STI module. As soon as we did this we were getting EXACTLY the same voltage PW modulated to the pump as a stock STI Of course all this explanation is just redundant and already posted earlier in the thread Edited February 5, 2013 by Scooby2.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I run a stock FPCM and stock wiring with a walbro 255 that is over 6 years old and should be replaced. This currently supports about 450hp. Is that on pump gas? 450WHP I would assume looking at your graph on a dyno dynamics that from what I understand read about 10% high.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I am not sure economy has anything to do with it. It is easier on the pump I would say. When you dont need the pump to run at 100%, why do it? The issue is those running higher horsepower with E85. It takes 30 percent more fuel. When this problem originally cropped up for me I was running an AVO pump. The legacy was never sending more than 11.7 volts to the pump. When we saw the fueling problem on a higher horsepower E85 tune the first thing we did was swap the pump and the AFR's dropped 1 point just from going from the AVO pump to the Aeromotive pump. The reason for the Aeromotive pump was because I was in Plano at Cobb tuning working on it in the parking lot and thats all they had in stock. So I just left it that way. We then found the Legacy dropping 2 volts from the fuel pump relay under the dash to the back of the car at the legacy FPCM. So we rewired and still were not getting full battery voltage to the pump until we swapped to the STI module. As soon as we did this we were getting EXACTLY the same voltage PW modulated to the pump as a stock STI Of course all this explanation is just redundant and already posted earlier in the thread well if you have the fuel pressure regulator map referenced the pressure drops down to about 30-35 psi at idle and cruse so much less effort on the pump, are the pumps designed for running continuous high speed ? i would think so. they have a ton of cold gas flowing through them to keep them cool. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Yes the Aeromotive FPR I am running is referenced to the manifold pressure so it is in fact stock 43 psi and 1:1 with boost pressure there. Daily driven car in a Kansas City MO summer is pretty warm fuel Continuous high speed 30K miles per year? Edited February 5, 2013 by Scooby2.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Yes the Aeromotive FPR I am running is referenced to the manifold pressure so it is in fact stock 43 psi and 1:1 with boost pressure there. Daily driven car in a Kansas City MO summer is pretty warm fuel Continuous high speed 30K miles per year? i highly doubt it would be any kind of problem.. and yours is 43 - engine vacuum if its idling right ? Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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