m sprank Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Bump stop clearance is good. Springs (if progressive) should be orientated with the progressive coils on top. Rear rubber seat has no real orientation. It is a circle (like the spring). Only front have true orientation. Noises from rear are odd. Check top hat bolt torque too, if you can. Make sure spring is not "hopping" in seat when drooping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTLEGACY007 Posted August 3, 2010 Author Share Posted August 3, 2010 The progression coils are the ones which are closer together , correct ? One of the rear springs is on upside down, just need to see which one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Yes, progressive are closer together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTLEGACY007 Posted August 3, 2010 Author Share Posted August 3, 2010 Here's a couple pics. So, just to be sure, in the top picture, the spring mounted incorrectly, while the bottom pic it's mounted correctly? I wouldn't think twice about it, but the lettering on the front springs all read right-side-up, while if I put the rears on with the progressive coils towards the top, the lettering reads upside-down http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb223/0honegt/Legacy/a342acb9.jpg http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb223/0honegt/Legacy/4656999d.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Top picture is incorrect. Bottom picture is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s car go Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Your springs are installed correctly, but your spring perches are upside down. You'll notice the side you have facing up has a small inset around the inner circumference - this is what sits on the lip around the strut body. Also, the tab that you can see facing down on the spring seat in the bottom picture will face up and hold the spring in place better. See this post for a clear picture of how they should look. I'm guessing this explains why your rear is sitting higher than the front whereas your should be seeing the "saggy butt" issue. Might as well order some spacers now or just trade springs with somebody since your mentioned not liking the current ride height up front. edit - And just to clear up a few things - the orientation of the springs shouldn't matter as long as the spring seats correctly, it's going to compress at the same rate(s) either way. The coils that are closer together aren't the "progressive" coils, it's the different spacing between the coils throughout that makes it a progressive rate spring. The coils closer together compress first since the spring rate is lower and as the spacing gets larger, the rate becomes higher. Regardless of which coils are on top or bottom, the ones with the lower rate will always compress first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 My eyes must be worse than I think. I dont see the spring perch issue in the pic of the strut. It might need to be twisted a bit, but I dont see it upside down. Like I said, could be my eyes. I apologize if I missed something. Correct that spring orientation is not the biggest deal. It is a spring and knows no different. But, it is generally accepted that the tighter coils go on top. Just GP. Every shock manufacturer I have ever worked with installs them this way. Penske (Custom Axxis), PEP, TCS, Ohlins. Comes from using multiple rate springs-preload, tenor, etc. Smaller springs on top. Main spring on the bottom. I notice no liners either. No wrap around the coils that will touch under load. This could be a source of noise too. Sometimes you can hear the coils clank together. Glad a second set of eyes stepped in. Maybe he sees other things my aging eyes are missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTLEGACY007 Posted August 6, 2010 Author Share Posted August 6, 2010 Aha! Well that explains the ride height. Could the thumping I'm hearing also be caused by this? You mentioned both the spring perch and seat, I assume you're referring to the bottom of the strut, where the bottom of the spring sits. This silver colored piece is what is installed upside down, correct? The upper part of the assembly, where the spring top meets the rubber isolator and tophat, are installed correctly yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Holy crap batman! Yes, I see it now. The lower spring seat on the pic of the single strut (top pic) is on upside down. I have never even removed them from a OEM Bilstein. How the heck did you do that? That answers the ride height and noise issue on the rear. Break that bad boy down and turn the lower spring seat around. The side that is not flat holds the "stop" for the coil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s car go Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 When I got my Bilsteins recently, I almost put the rears together like that too. Luckily I noticed it in time. The perches (I call them that so as not to confuse them with the seats, which are between the spring and the top hat) are not pre-installed on the strut so it's easy to get that part wrong. I'm very anxious to see pictures of your car after taking care of this. Try to get some good side shots on level ground if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Oh, I have never had the HD set up in my hands. If you have to install them I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTLEGACY007 Posted August 6, 2010 Author Share Posted August 6, 2010 yeah I purchased the HDs used and the seats were on there like that. Guess the previous owner either rode with them upside down, or inadvertently switched them at some point after he uninstalled them. Either way, i'll switch them and report back. I knew something was off as soon as I installed them originally and the rear sat significantly higher than the front. I don't so much mind the low ride height, it's more that I don't like the raked look i'm getting right now. Looks like i'm going to be taking the rears off possibly twice more, once to fix the spring seat issue, and possibly again to add spacers if my butt sags after. Thanks for the help, i'll post up some pics when I have a chance to pull them and reinstall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTLEGACY007 Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 Ok, we're getting there. Removed the rears today and removed the spring seat. This is what I found: http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb223/0honegt/Legacy/8baffba9.jpg You can see clearly where the bottom of the spring was seated there are some clear marks. Possible cause of some noise I assume, as it clearly looks as though the spring was moving here, as it wasn't seated properly. So I reinstalled with the seat in the correct orientation. Also turned the springs so that the lettering is all right-side up. Figured I might as well, seeing as (as posted above) it doesn't really matter which way they go. Here's the completed assembly: http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb223/0honegt/Legacy/5cd62c5e.jpg Got the car back on the ground and immediately noticed a difference in the ride height of the rear, as well it should. Before: http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb223/0honegt/Legacy/142fdb86.jpg After: http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb223/0honegt/Legacy/0cde2d53.jpg Assuming they settle even the slightest bit, i'm probably going to go with some saggy butt shims, as the rear is already looking a bit droopy to me. Since i'm going to be doing that anyways, I decided to look into some liners as well, to go around the bottom coils to prevent them from hitting each other, as that might be a cause of the noise i've been getting as well. So, strut issue resolved, pending some butt spacers. On to the rear end noise. Upon first driving the car after doing this work, I immediately noticed the noise was much less than before, BUT... still there. I got the car back in the garage, and took a look at the rear sway bar, as I figured this is the only thing left at this point. To my surprise, the entire swaybar can be moved by hand with the suspension loaded. It appears as though either the mounts, the bushings within, or both are too large for my 19mm bar, as there is freeplay between the bar and the bushings. There's also marks on the bar and the underbody of the car, where they appear to be impacting. Moving the bar by hand replicates the noise i'm hearing exacly (much quieter of course) so I'm fairly certain this is the culprit. All that being said, what's the best move here? Should I get a larger (22mm) bar, hoping it'll fill out the bushings and not move? I've got Rallitek bars front and rear, but to my knowledge they no longer make a 22mm RSB. Who makes a comparable RSB to Rallitek in 22mm? I'm not looking for an adjustable. Another option I suppose would be to look into smaller mounts, or tighter bushings, any idea where I could find those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Whiteline makes sway bar bushings in several sizes. I get them from FBP. Glad you got to the bottom of the noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s car go Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Energy Suspension also makes bushings in all sizes, they're pretty cheap on Amazon. Get a cheap digital caliper and measure the bar first. The car looks quite low and the spacers should definitely help level it out some. I might have to track down a set of these springs as the Swifts really didn't lower my car enough up front for my tastes. Glad to hear you've got everything sorted out for the most part. edit - if you happen to know anyone near you with S-Techs, I'd love to hear a comparison of the two ride-wise. The drop looks similar so I'd be curious if you experience the same ride quality (or lack thereof). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTLEGACY007 Posted August 10, 2010 Author Share Posted August 10, 2010 Will look into those bushings suggestions, i'm hoping that's all it needs. Aside from the noise issue and other small problems i've had, I absolutely love the RSR springs. They have a very nice ride for such an extreme drop. I really wouldn't hesitate to compare them to stock as far as ride quality goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTLEGACY007 Posted August 15, 2010 Author Share Posted August 15, 2010 Update- All noises gone, she now rides silently and sits perfectly IMO. Went with the Energy Suspension bushings on Amazon. Ordered the 19mm bushings, they arrived the very next day, and I installed them in about 10 minutes. Absolutely night and day difference as far as the noise goes. The RSB is now quiet over all but the worst bumps in the road. As far as the ride height goes, the rear springs did not seem to settle at all post-install. The front and rear springs both sit exactly even, as far as fender height goes. Less than 2 finger gap all the way around, and the gap is even. I'm pretty satisfied with the way it looks, not sure if i'm going to go with saggy butt spacer, but I probably won't. Took the car out on some twisties today. Probably a good 40-50 miles worth of driving in all, much of it spirited. The new suspension, coupled with stainless steel brake lines I installed yesterday, made the drive awesome. This is how the car is meant to handle. All in all, love the Bilsteins, love the RS-Rs, and love the swaybar set-up now that its all tied down. Can't wait to do pad/rotors and get some wheels with nice tires and see what it can really do. Thanks for all the help in this thread. Be on the lookout for future threads regarding the above future modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 Sounds like fun. Enjoy the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Sorry to hijack your thread but, I have a similar sound unrelated to the sway bar setup with stock suspension, makes a thump over uneven terrain, not speedbumps. Is it common for the top hat center nut on the strut to come loose? I have not checked it out yet but everything else is tight and proper, bushings are fine. 16k miles on the car. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 No, not common for the tophat nut to come loose. Bring it in to the dealership. You have warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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