Should I be imressed?

[acuraPwr]

Another lurker's first post. The official sub site has 3365 as the curb weight for the gt lim sedan manual. For some reason I was thinking it was closer to 3k lbs. At 3565 lbs (200 for me) that would make the 1/4 mile 14.9 at 17% loss. That is good? No. I'm new to subaru but i've been racing honda's since the mid 90's. I have a 12 sec civic and my daily driver is a CL that will do 14.6 repeatedly. I'm not a hater. I really like the new body style and am looking to replace the CL with a awd vehicle that's upscale. The legacy is perfect in every aspect except for the engine. The sti interior is so plain and boring as is the wrx. I know the mods aren't out yet but in all reality can this engine do low-mid 13's with minimal mods, under a few k? Should I save for another year and hope the "stiLegacy" will surface as a 300/300 option or just buy an S4?

[nicd]

Thanks for visiting US. I understand where you are comming from. And thought you might want to check out the S$ or an Acura TL. This particular platform is really not the best for a 1/4 mile car. And I think that you have answered pretty much your own questions. It will not do 13 s 1/4 with a few ks of mods. However we always well come new enthusiast. Later.

[SC GT]

Ugh. I hate to sound like gtguy, but I think you should just get the S4. If you want to be guaranteed specific quarter-mile times for specific amounts of money, this car isn't for you. That's not what this car is about. BTW, where did you get the quarter-mile time, and how did you estimate 14.9 with your weight?

[gtguy]

Welcome! Keep in mind also that the GT is an overall package, not a 1/4-mile car. If I were shopping in the S4 range, fiscally, that's another $15K over the Legacy GT for a very fast car. The Legacy is a capable GT, not a sports car, or high-powered sedan like the S4. You might indeed find more satisfaction in an Audi showroom. Having said that, you can make ANYTHING go fast. The question is, how much money do you want to spend? Until you drive, you won't really know if you should be impressed or not. Some people have driven them and put orders in immediately. Some have put orders in without ever having driven one. Some have simply seen them, and are not impressed, but become more impressed when they drive one. Reactions are all over the map. Try to see/drive one if you can. There are manual Limiteds making their way to dealers---then you can make the call. Kevin

[Drift Monkey]

I would say there is plenty to offer from this engine. There is another varaint of this "weak engine" is used in the Forester XT which runs 13.8 and does 5.3 0-60mph. The Forester is rated at 210hp@5600rpm, 235lb-ft@3600 rpm and weighs in at 3210lbs. You do the math.

[Dr. Zevil]

I doubt that the GT will barely break the 15's in the quarter mile? Where did you pull that info from? I think that the majority of this crowd is expecting low 14s from the car AT LEAST! Also remember that those weights that you are quoting are WET weights (iirc). I really am interested in where you pulled those numbers from. Also, if you can afford the S4, then go for it. It's a beautiful car!

[GBY]

[quote name='Dr. Zevil']I think that the majority of this crowd is expecting low 14s from the car AT LEAST![/quote] Damn right Dr. Z. Perhaps even high 13's.

[gtguy]

[quote name='SC GT']Ugh. I hate to sound like gtguy, but I think you should just get the S4. If you want to be guaranteed specific quarter-mile times for specific amounts of money, this car isn't for you. That's not what this car is about. BTW, where did you get the quarter-mile time, and how did you estimate 14.9 with your weight?[/quote] Hey, whaddaya mean "I hate to sound like gtguy..." :lol: Every now and again, I'm semi, quasi, half-assed right. :lol: Kevin

[Drift Monkey]

They seriously need to make a "Legacy GTguy Spec.Old" :lol:

[Dr. Zevil]

Kevin, you are right on more than half of the occasions :lol::lol: As far as the numbers are concerned, don't more than a few of you question the logic behing the 14.9 number in the quarter mile? The new GT sedan in any flavor will KILL that CL.

[Dr. Zevil]

Just a little more info here on your CL.. I just picked the most recent iteration because you didn't specify a year. [url]http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/acura/cl/12843/specs.html?tid=edmunds.u.review.leftsidenav..6.Acura*[/url] If you compare the numbers at all, you will notice that the CL isn't veen in the same performance class as the Leg GT. We are talking 0-60 that I would estimate in the low 5's for the GT and mid 7's for the CL. I think that we need to start comparing apples to apples. I am not hating on you at all, I love to see new faces (names) on the board and am simply trying to educate.. Also notice where the max torque is on that engine and the weight of that car. Also consider that the AWD will hook up instantly with the pavement. The GT will be plenty fast.. I also should consider that you have modded your CL a bit? Just like you who is a honda fan, we are subaru fans for a reason as well. we love what these cars offer in this segment and trust in subaru craftsmanship. probably much like you with hondas. I hope I didn't come off like a jerk. It was not my intention.

[Drift Monkey]

Sorry about the jerk acuraboy. He's been a bit grumpy today (ants in teh pants?). :lol: He is just nicley trying to tell you that it is simply preposterous to compare the Legacy to the CL. :P

[Dr. Zevil]

[quote name='Drift Monkey']Sorry about the jerk acuraboy. He's been a bit grumpy today (ants in teh pants?). :lol: He is just nicley trying to tell you that it is simply preposterous to compare the Legacy to the CL. :P[/quote] That pretty much explains it. :lol: But seriously.. the CL is an accord.. seriously.

[SC GT]

Zevil. You picked out the first gen CL. The second gen CL, more specifically the CL-S with 5AT, should be able to hit 14.6 consistently with little modification. The 6MT would be even quicker. If he has the base CL, he had to mod the crap out of it to hit 14.6s.

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='SC GT']Zevil. You picked out the first gen CL. The second gen CL, more specifically the CL-S with 5AT, should be able to hit 14.6 consistently with little modification. The 6MT would be even quicker. If he has the base CL, he had to mod the crap out of it to hit 14.6s.[/quote] Car-Stats.com Report for 2003 Acura 3.2CL Type-S Obtained from C&D July, 2002 0-60: 5.9 Transmission: Manual 1/4 Mile: 14.6 1/4 Speed: 98 0-100: 15.2 0-130: 31

[SC GT]

Except for the fact that the CL line has been discontinued, I don't think it is preposterous to compare a CL to the Leg GT, particularly if you compare the CL-S with 6MT (which has been discontinued). But what is ridiculous is the original poster's expectations. His CL-S (assuming he has the Type S), which cost more two years ago than a Leg GT will cost today at MSRP, gets 14.6s, probably with some mods. A stock Leg GT (by his own mysteriously calculated estimates) will get him 14.9. By the estimate of most people here, the stock Leg GT should be able to match or beat the 14.6. Yet the weak point of the Leg GT is the engine? How could the weak point of any car south of $30,000 that can do a 1/4 mile in less than 15 seconds be its engine?

[Drift Monkey]

The engine really sucks, that's why. :lol:

[Ridgeracer]

Im still wondering where he got his 1/4 mile time from.???

[goneskiian]

[quote name='gtguy']If I were shopping in the S4 range, fiscally, that's another $15K over the Legacy GT for a very fast car.[/quote] Kevin - I think you need to double check the pricing on that S4. If you were to get a new one you're looking at more like $20k more than the Legacy. All that for the wonderful German reliability. :lol: Remember I said I'd be comparing my new GT to a buddy of mine who bought a 2004 S4 Avant a month or so ago. Well...his S4 is already sucking down the oil. He's got to put a quart or so in every couple weeks now. I know the Audi dealership will take care of it for him for now, but what about a few years from now? Will he have to replace this $55K automobile because he can't afford to maintain it? We'll see. I know all these 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are just an indication of what an automobile is capable of, but to quote an anonymous saying "Any fool can go fast in a straight line." :wink: :lol: -Ian

[acuraPwr]

Wow lots of haters out there. I got my figure from [url]http://www.prestage.com/Car+Math/ET+and+Horsepower+Calculators/Calculate+ET+and+MPH+using+HP+and+Weight+/default.aspx[/url]. I took 250 and subtracted 17% for drive loss. 17% is standard for fwd, 22% is standard for rwd and I have no clue about awd so I used 17% (probably more) for drive loss. I should have specified I have a 2002 CLS 260hp 232 ft-lbs, with only an aem cold air intake. I didn't buy it for speed, as I put over 117k miles on it in 2.5 yrs. That's why i'm selling, just time for something new. The cl is not an accord, not even close. You're comparing Toyota's to Lexus and Nissan to Infinity, Honda to Acura is not the same. I would really like to have the S4 but with my traveling it's just not practical or economical right now. The legacy is a very nice looking car, but I refuse to purchase anything that is slower than what I currently drive. If the numbers from C&D come out that say it's 13.8 im sold, and i'll have one in a month. Like I said, i'm new to Subaru and no one really knows the answer to parasitic loss with awd. I would like to see some numbers. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

[GBY]

[quote name='acuraPwr']Wow lots of haters out there.[/quote] We don't have haters on this board. I think people here just got a bit bent because of the 14.9 figure you mentioned when in reality it will be around a second quicker, however that figure requires an AWD launch.... If you haven't driven an AWD Subie before I sugest a decent test-drive, these cars are truely special. I for one would find it hard to go back to FWD. Cheers! Dave.

[SC GT]

The parasitic loss on an AWD is more than 17%. On the WRX it is about 27%. However, Subaru also has a history of understating its HP numbers so that its cars don't encroach upon other cars' market segments, so no one knows whether the 250 hp is exact. Re your original post, before stating that the Leg GT's hp and 1/4 mile times are not impressive, you should wait until actual 1/4 mile times are published, or better yet, test drive a Leg GT yourself. Regardless of whether the stock Leg posts better 1/4 times than your CL-S, I am supremely confident that it will handle much better than the CL-S (this coming from someone that owns a TL with upgraded suspension, and who used to own a WRX wagon).

[Sub-attraction]

[quote name='acuraPwr'] The cl is not an accord, not even close. You're comparing Toyota's to Lexus and Nissan to Infinity, Honda to Acura is not the same.[/quote] I agree... that would be like saying a G35 is an Altima or an IS300 is a Corrolla.

[B4_Maniac]

[quote name='acuraPwr']Wow lots of haters out there. I got my figure from [url]http://www.prestage.com/Car+Math/ET+and+Horsepower+Calculators/Calculate+ET+and+MPH+using+HP+and+Weight+/default.aspx[/url]. I took 250 and subtracted 17% for drive loss. 17% is standard for fwd, 22% is standard for rwd and I have no clue about awd so I used 17% (probably more) for drive loss. I should have specified I have a 2002 CLS 260hp 232 ft-lbs, with only an aem cold air intake. I didn't buy it for speed, as I put over 117k miles on it in 2.5 yrs. That's why i'm selling, just time for something new. The cl is not an accord, not even close. You're comparing Toyota's to Lexus and Nissan to Infinity, Honda to Acura is not the same. I would really like to have the S4 but with my traveling it's just not practical or economical right now. The legacy is a very nice looking car, but I refuse to purchase anything that is slower than what I currently drive. If the numbers from C&D come out that say it's 13.8 im sold, and i'll have one in a month. Like I said, i'm new to Subaru and no one really knows the answer to parasitic loss with awd. I would like to see some numbers. I hope I didn't offend anyone.[/quote] Got to say, I am fairly new to the board myself..and I don't think we have any haters here. But, I will say I am going from a RX8 to a 05 GT..and I am expecting a PERFORMANCE GAIN. Talk about and oil guzzeling, thirsty, horse power mystery of a wonderfull machine. My RX8 uses a quart of oil every 2k miles..burns through 13 galons of gas in 180 miles and will do the quater mile in low 14's with only 158 lb-feet of tourque.. I am looking forward to the relatively low maintance, fairly fuel efficiant awd Legacy with an engine that has GOBS of tourque.. If I am looking forward to going from a RX8 to a Legacy...thats got to tell you something. Oh, and for the record, I have driven a 2.0 B4 twin turbo Legacy in Japan, and I am expecting peformance on par with the 280HP twin turbo with out the vally of death lag when it kicks over from single to twin. The 2.5 liter engine will make up for not haveing that first turbo or a twin scroller. Keep that in mind.

[RSPDiver]

[quote name='goneskiian'] I know all these 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are just an indication of what an automobile is capable of, but to quote an anonymous saying "Any fool can go fast in a straight line." :wink: :lol: -Ian[/quote] Fast cars go fast straight. Fast drivers go fast turning. Right on, goneskiian! I would hate to put any miles on a small FWD 12 second economy car. But, from driving the 2.5i, the Legacy GT promises to be a car you can have some serious fun in the corners with. And THAT's driving!