Aex1 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Hi everyone. Ok, it's absolutely clear that without WBO2 it's impossible (dangerous) to tune boost (that's my concern now). A friend of mine will bring it to me from the US. But, anyway, after reading this thread: http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92446 I still have some questions, please. 1). If 80% of my driving mode is city driving, I use almost the same gas station with the same gas type, then what's necessity for me is for PERMANENT use of WBO2? Running into all these issues of welding, drilling and so on? If I'll need it only once, just for tuning boost and that's it:rolleyes:. (Because I don't change my gas every other day and the parameters in the map are already settled. No sharp changes are espected for the ECU.) 2). If I don't need permanent usage of WBO2, what is the best solution for its temporary use? Should I fix it on the tailpipe? But how can you imagine this during the WOT? May the obtained results be inaccurate due to the long distance from the downpipe, its traditional place? And how can I manage with the wires at this moment? 3). And the main question, please: where can I find the simple and compehensive info how to tune with the help of WBO2? I suppose that it's necessary to play with the Primary Open Loop Fueling table and with MAF Scaling table. But which table comes first? Which is more important? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 If you are using the stock intake, you do not need a WB02 to tune safely. All you need to do is adjust your Open loop fuel targets, no need to mess with the maf scaling unless you are using an aftermarket intake. Tuning info here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1626520 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aex1 Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 If you are using the stock intake, you do not need a WB02 to tune safely. All you need to do is adjust your Open loop fuel targets, no need to mess with the maf scaling unless you are using an aftermarket intake. Tuning info here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1626520 Thank you, Spec B. Yes, I'm using the stock intake, after almost one year of using SPT intake:mad:. So, only touching the Primary Open Loop Fueling table is necessary? As I remember, you prefered the permanent install of WBO2. Why? You need to check your AFR every time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 If you are using the stock intake, you do not need a WB02 to tune safely. All you need to do is adjust your Open loop fuel targets, no need to mess with the maf scaling unless you are using an aftermarket intake. Tuning info here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1626520 Really? How closely do the actual AFRs match the AFRs in the open loop fuel table on a stock LGT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 ^^ I never logged AFR with my stock box, I imagine they are alot closer than they would be with an aftermarket intake and the stock maf scaling, but I get your point. I should have been more clear. My whole point was/is that you do not need a wbo2 to tune boost. And if you are using the stock airbox, your afr's are going to be "pretty close" to target. Without a wb02, I would not target an aggressive afr, but I think you could lean it out a little bit safely. There is no doubt a WBO2 will help you make a safer and probably more powerful tune, but it is not required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Thank you, Spec B. Yes, I'm using the stock intake, after almost one year of using SPT intake:mad:. So, only touching the Primary Open Loop Fueling table is necessary? As I remember, you prefered the permanent install of WBO2. Why? You need to check your AFR every time? Even though my WBo2 is a "mobile" unit, I decided to install it permanently because I like to know exactly what is going on every time I log. AFR is a critical part of a tune..the more you lean out the mixture, the smaller the cushion for error. Because I run a fairly aggressive OL fuel target, I like to be able to monitor it all the time (I log a lot). At the end of the day, it really depends on what your goal is..if you are looking to run a basic stage 2 tune I do not think a WB02 is needed. Of course, to NSFW's point, you will have no idea how close or off you are to your target unless you get a WB02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aex1 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Really? How closely do the actual AFRs match the AFRs in the open loop fuel table on a stock LGT? Hi, NSFW. Thanks for your replays. So, YOU think WBO2 could be of needs even for stock intake? I think so, too. Just an example: when I finally installed the silencier (under the intake box), my table A at LV dropped, sometimes to -8-9! I checked for leaks - nothing. Well, then I used wellknown method to smoth the MAF scaling, especially at idle. Well, now is 0.8-2. But I'll think it over again:rolleyes:... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aex1 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Even though my WBo2 is a "mobile" unit, I decided to install it permanently because I like to know exactly what is going on every time I log. AFR is a critical part of a tune..the more you lean out the mixture, the smaller the cushion for error. Because I run a fairly aggressive OL fuel target, I like to be able to monitor it all the time (I log a lot). At the end of the day, it really depends on what your goal is..if you are looking to run a basic stage 2 tune I do not think a WB02 is needed. Of course, to NSFW's point, you will have no idea how close or off you are to your target unless you get a WB02. Thank you, Spec B. Yes, I'm running "modest" Mickeyd Stage 1 and waiting for the WBO2, I just put AFR parameters at 4000 rev and higher from 10.57-10.69, growing a little to the redline. Lowered a little Base Timing at that area - and it workes! No knock at WOTs. Just a curious: making WOTs in auto mode (more natural for me:lol:), I were always overboosting, but only a little. For example: in place of 16.63 psi in the map there were 17.12 psi at the log. (Is it crytical;)?) I let the WGDC down, but no good results. When I saw the logs more carefully, I noted that the peak boost is always happened when AT torque converter works. In manual mode the curve is more smooth and no such pulling. So I decided to let AT to drive at your own:). But anyway, the main question, guys: how do you care with the WBO2, when you just borrow it for one day? Where and how do you place it for mesuring AFR correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Hi, NSFW. Thanks for your replays. So, YOU think WBO2 could be of needs even for stock intake? I think so, too. Just an example: when I finally installed the silencier (under the intake box), my table A at LV dropped, sometimes to -8-9! I checked for leaks - nothing. Well, then I used wellknown method to smoth the MAF scaling, especially at idle. Well, now is 0.8-2. But I'll think it over again:rolleyes:... I didn't get a WBO2 until after I had switched my intake and injectors, so I honestly don't know how closely the AFRs in the table will match the AFRs in reality. In the meantime I just watched real close for knock, and I think I did OK - I mean, my engine still seems healthy. I had to pull a lot of timing, though... and later I found that I was hitting 12s in an area where the table was calling for 11.2. (LBGT found a similar surprise when he switched to larger injectors, so maybe it's not an issue with the stockers.) So, I do think that it can be done without a WBO2 - if you watch closely for knock you can at least keep the engine from blowing up. But knowing my AFRs helped me do a better job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aex1 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 That's what I'm doing now: tuning without WBO2. Always at the edge... Just another example: one day I removed SO much degrees from Timing Advance, that my baby car began shuttering even uphilling. The numbers in Total Timing looked like this: 2; -1; -0.5; 3; -3 and so on. Awful! EGT were growing fast! And I didn't WOT at that moment. I got that something was wrong, reverted to Mickeyd numbers in Timing Advance (=5.98) and never changed them more. Only substructing from Base Timing. P.S. NSFW, I've read all your new articles at RomRaider, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin1657615274 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Just another example: one day I removed SO much degrees from Timing Advance, that my baby car began shuttering even uphilling. at the time, what was the particular reason you did that? tuning without WBO2. Always at the edge...what AFR has the factory front O2 sensor been reading? On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aex1 Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 at the time, what was the particular reason you did that? what AFR has the factory front O2 sensor been reading? Before I corrected AFR, it was knocking like crazy. On WOTs, front O2 sensor always is reading at 11.14, sometimes 11.02. But anyway, it's not accurate. I made the AFR reacher at problem area (till 10.57) and the knock stopped. (Removing, at the same time, from Base Timing a lot from midrange and only 1.05 deg from high end. Timing Advance left untouched, at 5.98 most of all.) The gas is similar to ACN 91. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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