bcristea Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Hi, I see alot of people on this board talking about getting there GT's below invioce and wanted to know how this is possible? Isn't invoice the actual dealer cost? Why would they sell below their cost? I can get a supplier discount which is invoice but I'm trying to get below invoice and the dealer tells me there is no way any dealer would do that. They told me that SOA gives the dealer 400.00 for every car they sell for the VIP plan. The 400.00 is to make up for not selling the car at a profit? Can any one shed some light on this subject? Thanks, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCFish Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 I don't know the specifics but I do know that invoice is not what the dealer paid. It is a misconception that a sale at invoice equates to zero profit. Also, the dealer does not only sell one car - what he may 'lose' on one, he should make up on another. The dealer that says no dealer would do that is speaking for themselves (more accurately it is a negotiating move). The bottom line is this - you decide what you want to pay and if you and the dealer can't come to terms, then take your business elsewhere. There are plenty out there that will. -mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sde Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 i *think* the 400 is what they call dealer hold back .. and i also *think* that the hold back is a little more like $1200- .. just from other threads i've read here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Dealers lie. They don't pay "invoice". There's more to it than "holdback" too, from what I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt_ltd Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 They told me that SOA gives the dealer 400.00 for every car they sell for the VIP plan. The 400.00 is to make up for not selling the car at a profit? so that makes it $400 for selling at VIP price + at least $1200 holdback = $1600, not bad at all! This Space For Rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewster Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 yeah, seems like there are a lot of variables that dealers can use to sell at a lot less than the invoice price. Currently i've been quoted $1000 off invoice price, AND if I don't take the 1.9% Subaru financing deal, I can get an additional $500 discount. (this is for an OB XT Ltd). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illt3ck Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Have the dealer show you the invoice sheet. In the bottom left corner you will see how much additional room you have to work within. It will say "HB1040" or something to that affect, and it means there is $1,040 in HoldBack before you hit actual dealer cost. If the dealership you are working with doesn't want to deal, go somewhere else. I had three dealerships competing for my business and ended up driving my car off the lot @ Invoice Price Minus Holdback @ 2.9% financing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live- Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Dealers make a TON of money doing service on your car as well. If they sell it to you at a great price, you will be inclined to go back to them for regular maintenance (if you don't do that sort of thing yourself). There are also plenty of incentives that the dealer fills out themselves - things like mail-in rebates and whatnot that they won't always tell you about. But yeah - I'd find it hard to believe "invoice" is what the dealer actually pays for the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 selling a car means more than just making a profit.. it's called "keeping yourself out of the red". It's better for a dealer to sell a car and lose $400 than it is to have a car inventory listed at $27,000. Remember, the dealer had to buy the car as inventory. It's better to be in debt by $400 than it is at $27,000.. Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 selling a car means more than just making a profit.. it's called "keeping yourself out of the red". It's better for a dealer to sell a car and lose $400 than it is to have a car inventory listed at $27,000. Remember, the dealer had to buy the car as inventory. It's better to be in debt by $400 than it is at $27,000.. Keefe I feel as if there was some sort of Zen moment in that. Like "Spit not in the wind" or something. I feel like drinking Green Tea. I also hear a gong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limeydriver Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 3% holdback plus floor holding costs. The dealers pay interest on the vehicles on their lot after 90 days. so the nearer to the 90 days you go the faster they want to dump the vehicle. They also get a commission on any financing they do that can easy be $1,000. That is why brands like Acura never haggle that much because they turn over their stock very quickly. So they have always sold the vehicle before they have bought it as it where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avishar Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 In conclusion: Invoice price is not the price the dealer paid for the car... they still make money, the dealer always wins. If you don't believe me just ask a friendly(somewhat honest) dealer and they will tell you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santacruzblur Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Dealer's for te most part do not "pay" invoice" for any vehicle. Being an ex dealership owners son this is how it works. 1. Dealership orders 10 cars for example. The total invoice price comes to 100k for example. 2. Dealership is afforded 90 days typical for the first payment. (Called a float) 3. Dealer sells you the car at or below invoice. 4. Dealer gets 3% of invoice (called Holdback) either credited or in the form of an actual check from manufacture. 5. Dealer maintains that vehicle sales moneys for 30 days or more depending on the cycle. 6. Upon payment due date, Funds are transferred to the manufacturer. If a vehicle is on the lot for more than 90 days, the dealership pays a "percentage" in the form of interest. This is used to pay down the float that the manufacturer allows. Each dealership is set up with numerous banks and manufacturers for a "floor planning" agreement. Basically, just making an interest payment until the vehicle is sold from the floor. All dealerships are audited at least bi-monthly for compliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illt3ck Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Dealer's for te most part do not "pay" invoice" for any vehicle. Being an ex dealership owners son this is how it works. 1. Dealership orders 10 cars for example. The total invoice price comes to 100k for example. 2. Dealership is afforded 90 days typical for the first payment. (Called a float) 3. Dealer sells you the car at or below invoice. 4. Dealer gets 3% of invoice (called Holdback) either credited or in the form of an actual check from manufacture. 5. Dealer maintains that vehicle sales moneys for 30 days or more depending on the cycle. 6. Upon payment due date, Funds are transferred to the manufacturer. If a vehicle is on the lot for more than 90 days, the dealership pays a "percentage" in the form of interest. This is used to pay down the float that the manufacturer allows. Each dealership is set up with numerous banks and manufacturers for a "floor planning" agreement. Basically, just making an interest payment until the vehicle is sold from the floor. All dealerships are audited at least bi-monthly for compliance. thanks for the great information! I've always wondered about the inner workings of a dealership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgarath Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 And don't forget your trade-in, if you have one. Dealers make a pretty good sum on buying your vehicle for $500 and selling it for $15,000 (j/k). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawyer1370 Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Ok, so I was using the invoice price I saw on Edmunds.com for a MT LGT, and then I listed out all the costs for the upgrades I wanted, so here is what it looked like for gt and lgt: MSRP Invoice $26,095 $24,018 L97 Performance Group 1 $601 $392 Includes STi short throw shifter, STi metal pedal kit and Momo shift knob. L96 Popular Equipment Group 1 $281 $183 Includes security system perimeter alarm and auto-dimming mirror with compass. Subwoofer/Amplifier $273 $178 ---------------------- $27,250 $24,771 Taxes $2,053 Plates $474 Doc fee $299 ==================== Out the door $27,597 MSRP Invoice The limited prices are: $28,595 $26,294 ====================== Out the door $29120 Here is the just of the response I got: Edmunds prices are accurate, esspecially on the prices they quote for the upgrades. The invoice costs for upgrades is listing installed at factory, so that would not include the dealer's labor costs. So how do you negociate upgrades if the car doesn't come with them, like the subwoofer? I'm thinking for the money they want to charge me for the sub, I could just get it installed myself from a audio place. Any thoughts or input. At what point do you realize you just can't get a lower price regardless of how many dealers you go to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
por911s Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I'm also being quoted $575 (shows in Edmunds) for transportation from Subaru in IN and $275 again from Subaru for "everything that goes out the door". Can these be thrown out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Here's a good site to read that explains most of what you're asking: http://www.carbuyingtips.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o- c-uTe Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I made the dealer lose $2100. I went back to the dealer a week after I bought it, and I ask the sales man that helped me "So, did I really get a deal." He said "Check this out" then he pulled out a pink ticket out of his wallet showing what he made for the week or month for the dealer. Under my name there was a -$2100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt_ltd Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 either he lied or should be fired. This Space For Rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o- c-uTe Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 he wasn't lieing, so fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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