Mr. Mister Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hi all, I searched this forum, NASIOC and google prior to posting and was not able to find my answer, so if I missed it, my apologies. Hopefully this is in the right forum as well. I leased an 09 Legacy 2.5i for 24 months. 12k miles (edit: 12k miles per year). $179 a month. I've made 4 payments so far. Without jinxing it, I have a job interview next week for a position that requires a lot of driving. In 4 months, I've put over 5k miles on the car, so I'm looking at going over the mileage limit anyways, so if I were to be offered this job, I'd absolutely crush the 12k mile limit. I've tried to find whether one can execute a lease takeover in the United States. All I've been able to find is that it seems quite common, or at least doable, in Canada. Can it be done in the States without impacting my credit and/or without a huge penalty? If so, can my name be taken off the title completely (I leased a VW Jetta previously, and was told a lease takeover was possible, however VW would not allow me to remove my name from the title, so if the individual that took over the lease quit making payments, they could come back to me for the $). I know I could talk to my dealer, but as a matter of personal preference, I only talk to auto salesmen as a last resort I appreciate any info. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I would say be VERY careful about something like that unless you get a full release from the lease from Subaru Finance. If you don't get the release you are 100% correct that they can nail you if the person taking over doesn't pay. Happens ALL the time. Unfortunately your situation shows why leases are such a tough way to finance the purchase of a vehicle. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Do the math and predict the overage charge. Predict your mileage at 24 months and multiply by the overage rate. ie, Assuming you do 1k/mo for the last 18mo of this lease then you'll be ~13k over the limit when you turn it in. If you have an overage charge of 25c per mile then your overage will be 3250. If you do 2k/mo then you'll be cutting them a check for between $6-7k. Armed with this information you can decide your next steps. Can you modify the lease to make a higher payment to cover the miles? How much extra would they want for that? If it was me and I was looking at a $7k overage charge then I'd spend $2k on a good reliable older Honda Civic/Accord and use that as my work beater. Even after you pay the extra insurance/registration etc, you'll still be 4k better off. Don't let your name be on ANY financial obligation that someone else has to pay - that can not end well. I don't like leasing - and yours is an all-too-common reason why. Good luck, I mean it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Mister Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 thank you for the input...and well wishes. fonts...that is essentially my question...if I can get a full relase from subaru, as you put it. odds are, I'll have to deal with Subaru directly to get a final answer, but thought I'd ask if anyone out there maybe worked for subaru or knew someone who had gone through it. Scruit...I see where you're going with your response, and I'll have to wait and see what type of mileage I'd even be looking at. This is just a preliminary thought really. They way I see it, if I don't land the job, I'm at 5k 1/3 of the way through the first year...so I'm probably looking at somewhere around 15k for year 1. If I pull that same amount out of year 2, I'll be around 30k total and 6k over for the lease at .25 per mile for a total of $1500 (it's actually 12k per year...sorry for not clarifying above). I knew that was a possibility going in, and I've even budgeted in a separate bank account money specifically for automobile related finances (small down payments for the next auto, additional mileage fees, etc.). If I do land the job, then I'll probably go a lot higher over and have to see about purchasing more miles, which I confirmed I am able to do (price I do not recall, however). I actually prefer leasing because I like getting into something new every few years, and am willing to maintain a car payment and the possibility of additional expenditures coming out of situations like this that may arise. I will say, however, some circumstances have changed since I leased back in the fall and I am driving longer distances. But, as mentioned, that's the risk one runs with leasing. Any additional feedback is appreciated...and my apologies for being so long winded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 If you can get a full release then you'll be sitting fine. Chances of getting a full release .... somewhere between impossible and not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunra Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 It might be best to do what Scruit advised, figure out your costs for the coming year and then build that into a budget. Trying to unload a lease is always a hassle and not easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Also, realize that one way or another you will be hit with overage fees....if you lease you pay Subaru's $0.15 a mile fee, but when you purchase a car and go to trade it in, all the blue book/black values hit the car with a $0.25 mileage charge. Also, alot of times your overage charges can be absorbed with a rebate on the next car. But if you are going to be doing a lot of driving, would you rather be in a car that at the end of 24 months, you can walk away from (with the exception of the mileage fees) or be stuck in a car with high miles because you are so far upside down. The other thing you can do, is once you get near the mileage limit, you can go and try to trade it in. Sometimes you can trade out early and then not even have to worry about the mileage. All the bank cares about it that the car is paid. That being said, used car values are at an all time high, and with the release of the new Legacys coming, there will be a run of the older body styles, so that will help your trade-in value. Same thing happened last year with the new Foresters and the year before that with the Imprezas. Also, as someone had mentioned...you can buy a beater car for real cheap and use that as your work vehicle and keep the Legacy and not worry about the mileage. Lastly, if you plan on keeping the Legacy (ie purchasing it at the end of the lease), the miles will NOT matter. They only matter when you are turning in the vehicle back to Subaru at the end of the lease. But you still also have the same options as if you purchased....You can sell the vehicle, keep it or trade it...along with turning it in. Also, that might be an option as well....rather than trying to find someone to take over the lease. Just sell the car as you would a car that was on conventional financing. Just call Chase and find out what the total payoff on the car (not the lease) is and then post it up for sale. Depending on whether you are upside down or not (owing more than the car's worth) that would be a MUCH better option for you rather than having someone take over the lease. That is a tricky thing to do and have done correctly, and not be liable for the other person if they don't pay/miss payments and thus get a repo. Also, chance of finding someone to even want to do that are real slim. I would sell the car privately if you can. But if you have other questions about what I've said or how things work, I will be more than happy to help you. I work at a Subaru dealership in sales and am well versed in how the leases work. So I can definately help you out.....in fact I also leased my Subaru and am in a similar situation where I am going to go over my miles, but I'm not worrying about it. All the bank cares about is paying the car off. The only reason there are overage fees on excessive mileage is because when you lease the try to predict the car's value at the end of it with that many miles and if you go over, the car mostly likely won't be worth as much and therefore the bank trys to recover some of that loss through the fees. Anyway, hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wang Lung Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 "I know I could talk to my dealer, but as a matter of personal preference, I only talk to auto salesmen as a last resort." There you are, sitting on either the largest or second largest financial commitment in your life right now, and you don't want to talk to the person you bought it from. If you shun them, I guarantee they will shun you. If you cultivate a relationship with them, they will respond. I dropped off a bottle of wine with the guy I bought my car from a couple of weeks ago. I check in with him every time I get my car serviced. If I were in your situation, I would go to him and ask him to get me out of my lease, in return for a purchase. Buying and leasing cars is a shell game. And there is nothing a creative finance guy can't pull off if he wants to. But, since you don't want to talk to these people, or cultivate a business relationship with them, you're screwed. You are getting out of this relationship about what you are putting into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 +1 Finally I see someone who gets it! Being in car sales, I see all the time people who think we are just greedy people trying to steal their money. While there are some people who are like that (mostly older salesmen from "old skool" ways of selling) that are like that, if you can find a young enthusiatic person and treat them with respect, I guarantee you they will do whatever they can to help you out. Often times people just want the dealership to just give away the car and treat everyone working there like garbage, but what people forget, is that there isn't much mark-up in cars. In fact, you wanna see a rip-off, go by an audio cable or video cable for your TV. There's almost 100% mark-up in contrast to a Subaru where there's less than 10% and things like $500 off takes most of the gross profit out. And when the guy selling you the car is paid off the gross, you are basically cutting him out. Remember, salesmen have NO motivation to sell you a car if they can't make any money (which believe...is not much!). I'll give everyone a bit of car buying advice...You want to have a salesman that you can trust to be honest when he talks to you about cars your interested in and to give you the best possible deal (possibly better than if you try to play "hard ball" and piss him off, offer to pay him a couple hundred (like $200) on the side. It will be cheaper for you because for him to earn that same amount in the deal, you would have to pay around $800-1000 more. So if you pay that on the side, you are helping him and he can in turn help you. Sorry to go OT, but I think this is important as the Mr. Mister says he doesn't like to talk to auto salesmen. Believe me, we can be your friend if you treat us right. We can do things for you that you wouldn't even think possible if you would just take them time to be our friend...and not expect it the other way around. We are not bad people and we like everyone else need to make a living. In fact, even Edmunds to a degree says to find the best saleman and if you can get a relationship going with him, you don't have to go through all the other bs just to get a "good" deal. There is no such thing as a "good" deal. A "good" deal is what the buyer perceives to be a good deal and that only can occur when the value of the car exceeds the price. And as a Subaru owner who also sells them, out of the many cars I've had, even paying full sticker is worth it and would be a good deal. Wait until you get into some trouble on the road and have a near death experience (and maybe not that extreme) and when your Subaru gets you out of it, then you'll maybe realize that buying a Subaru at full sticker is still a "good" deal. Now if I were you, I would do what Wang Lung said, go find someone in sales, treat them decently and form a relationship with them. If you can do that, you might be surprised what he can do for you. But really it's all on the customer to take these few extra steps, as if you don't and there's no money involved for the salesman, he won't help you. If you form a lasting relationship, he/she will go above and beyond so as to keep you a customer for life, and in doing so, it may save you thousands of dollars in the future. That's just my $.02. Sorry for the long post and going somewhat OT. I just thought as this came up it was important to address. People always think car salesman are just making a killing off of customers when the reality is, on new cars, they can barely make anything, and they don't think about all the other products out there that have huge mark-ups (where the company is making a TON of money) that they buy everyday. People should start focusing more on percentages of costs in mark-ups and just dollar amounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 If I pull that same amount out of year 2, I'll be around 30k total and 6k over for the lease at .25 per mile for a total of $1500 (it's actually 12k per year...sorry for not clarifying above). And Subaru charges $0.15 a mile...not $0.25 for overage miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Mister Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Lots of good info here, thank you again. I checked the buyout already and it's at $21k. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I can't see selling this privately for $20k, let alone more. As for my salesman comment, it was slightly sarcastic, I tried to denote that by the smiley. My VW guy rubbed me the wrong way, and I wasn't surprised at all to see him about 2 years later selling cell phones at my Verizon store. One Subaru salesman was an a-hole who tried playing hardball by hanging up on me. Needless to say I went elsewhere. Even the guy I ended up getting the car from was just a "typical" salesman, but he did give me a much better deal. He and his boss admitted to me, however, the main reason they did it is because the working relationship between them and the original dealer I went to has gone sour and they do everything they can to take business away from each other. I understand you're in business to make money, but I left with the impression that if I'd dealth with a different dealership first, I wouldn't have been offered the same deal as the motive to steal my business would not have been there. So, while I agree it's important for ME to treat YOU with respect, in my opinion, it's more important for YOU to treat ME with respect. I can get my car anywhere...it's up to you to earn my business, not up to me to earn your best deal. At least that's my opinion. I've had pleasant encounters with salesmen before. Say what you want about Saturn, but our family has had three of them...mainly because the dealership experience was night and day compared to anything else we'd experienced. As mentioned though, I understand I'll have to deal with the dealer, the REAL reason I posted here first is because I want to hear from anyone who has done it directly. A dealer, let's face it, his main goal is to keep/put me in a subaru. he'll make ZERO money if I get out of the car and into something else, right? So, while they can provide me with more information, it's not exactly an objective source. A few options you've mentioned (buying a beater, trading in early to aviod overage fees..which I did with my VW) I'll just have to wait and see where I end up down the road. But, Verwilderd, as a salesman for Subaru, do you know if it's at least possible to get out with a full release, and what penalties I'd have to pay to do so? You say there's NOTHING a creative finance guy can't pull off if he wants to...well call me jaded, but I can't see my finance guy just throwing up his arms and letting me walk away, if in fact that's what I decide is best for me. So, if I can get input from multiple sources (including another salesman) before I approach them, if he "doesn't want to" then if I come here first I can be more prepared to respond to him than if I were to go in and just rely on him. Please understand I am considering this as a LAST resort. I just want to learn as much as I can about ALL my options. At this point, I fully expect (and hope) to take this lease through to the end, over mileage or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Honestly, the easiest way around this whole lease thing is to refinance the car and convert it to a normal purchase. At that point you won't have any penalties. I think that would be your best bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aigochamaloh Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Yea, good luck getting that paperwork mess sorted. I also had the option of leasing, but I knew I'd have a problem with 12k annual miles. I've had my car 5 months and I'm pushing 13K right now. $21K to purchase on top of your lease is too much, work on that. I got my car OTD for just about $21. What are the penalties for getting out of the lease early? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Yea, good luck getting that paperwork mess sorted. I also had the option of leasing, but I knew I'd have a problem with 12k annual miles. I've had my car 5 months and I'm pushing 13K right now. $21K to purchase on top of your lease is too much, work on that. I got my car OTD for just about $21. What are the penalties for getting out of the lease early? Remainder of the lease payments + the buyout is how they calculate early payment. Huge money .... That's what makes it so difficult to get out of a lease. Add that to the fact that the new car is now used AND you've only paid towards financing a portion of the vehicle (ie. purchase price - buyout price = amount financed through lease payments) and you have some major troubles. I hope everything works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gf2020 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Man, some of you guys like to obsess about the most ridiculous things. Just drive the car and worry about the mileage in 20 months. No sense losing sleep over it now. Deal with all that when Subaru Finance comes calling in 18 months or so wondering what you want to do about your lease. You can re-negotiate the mileage charge and the lease end purchase price at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 -1 Financial problems are not like elementary school bullies - they don't go away if you ignore them. The OP recognizes a potential problem and is asking for advice on how to fully understand and deal with that problem - kudos for the foresight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 worst case scenario, just call chase and see what options they give you. Sometimes it is not worth worrying. Besides, what people may or may not know if anything you decided to do over 10K mi a year, you pay for at $.15/mi so if you choose a 12k lease, you just paid for $.15/mi before hand. If you go over you just pay $.15/mi over, just as if you choose a higher mileage lease over the 10K mi that Subaru gives you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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