boxkita Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Stock spring rate that comes on the BR coils. The ride is really bouncy at my current setting. get a corner balance first. Then set front & rear at mid range...16. Drive a set route (best if it respresents roads like you normally drive). Add 1 clicks harder front & rear and try again. Ask your self if its better or worse. If better adjust until it gets worse, roll back. If one end feels better, adjust only the other. Expect to spend several sessions getting it right. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRegvall Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I'm not sure why a corner balance is the first priority. Could be, but I thought of it as fine tuning the handling and less the ride. Also, the preload on them is important. They need much more than BC says to compensate for the sag and relatively short travel. One of the great things about the BCs is that they are so easy to adjust. So you can play with variations easily. Go full soft all around, then full hard. Then mid range them. Then stagger the settings front fron to back, back to front. Do find a "typical" road for your driving. Then run each setting over that course. Take notes. I did bunches of laps over my test course. I'd have to go back over my notes to see where I settled. But they are great for learning some of the basics of suspension settings. Play with your coils. Your settings will also differ from others if you have stock or after market sways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I'm not sure why a corner balance is the first priority. Could be, but I thought of it as fine tuning the handling and less the ride. Also, the preload on them is important. They need much more than BC says to compensate for the sag and relatively short travel. One of the great things about the BCs is that they are so easy to adjust. So you can play with variations easily. Go full soft all around, then full hard. Then mid range them. Then stagger the settings front fron to back, back to front. Do find a "typical" road for your driving. Then run each setting over that course. Take notes. I did bunches of laps over my test course. I'd have to go back over my notes to see where I settled. But they are great for learning some of the basics of suspension settings. Play with your coils. Your settings will also differ from others if you have stock or after market sways. Because a corner balance is easy, should be done at the same time as alignment, and you don't want to be adjusting those other things before getting the heights set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRegvall Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 My recollection is that the corner balance wasn't cheap. Maybe easy with the right equipment. But for me the beauty of the coilovers is that you can play with the height and preload and see waht it does with the handling. It seems playing with those will mess with your corner balancing. The alignment will be affected marginally by those adjustments for sure. But the real alignment problem will come from toe settings being way off and grinding your tires off. Caster and camber shouldn't be as much of a problem. I guess I'd rather play around with them first and learn what they can do; then, after you get them comfy, have balanced over/understeer to taste, find the right ground clearance and preload, do a final alignment and corner balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyscoodle Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 In my opinion a corner balance on BC's is a waste. Unless you are running a top quality spring such as hyperco, swift, H&R, etc, the amount the rate will degrade over 10-40k miles would surprise you. Corner balancing a car is a very precise process where even the extra gear in your car can make a difference and throw it off. If the rate at each corner after 20k miles varies by as much as 10% or more, the corner balance is useless. As for setting preload, you should set it up to achieve roughly a 50/50 balance of bump/droop travel. Sometimes 60/40 with more bump travel for the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRegvall Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I had the 5/7 rate springs, not the standard 6/8 springs. My guess is that the softer springs needed more preload to compensate for sag (especially given the dampers' relatively short travel). When the springs get their static sag from the weight of the car, they use up travel in the dampers. With less travel, they hit their bump limit pretty easily and -bang - the ride gets uncomfortable. The stiffer springs just would not sag as much. So With that calibration in mind, I had 1"-1.25" preload on my fronts and about .5"-.75" in the rear. I was much more concerned with increasing bump travel rather than droop (especially in the front). From a practical standpoint, droop just doesn't seem as important. With decent roll stiffness, there aren't that many opportunities to lift the tires off the ground because of lack of droop. There's nothing definitive about my experience, especially since calibrations will differ for different spring rates. But I wouldn't hesitate to play around with them. I learned a lot from that. I agree that the corner balancing is of limited value for daily driver purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 In my opinion a corner balance on BC's is a waste. Now that may be true. Corner balance has added maybe $20 to the cost of my alignments, so not expensive. You don't need to play with it much, you have the right guy do it, leave it alone unless unless you gain/lose significant amounts of weight. I can't tell you the advantage a good corner balance has given me in autox and track days. But I have good coilovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I didnt run autox before changing to coilovers, but did run track days. My lap times dropped substantially after changing to coilovers. The only autox events I have done were post coilovers and won both novice events. My corner balance + alignment was ~400, however, I was tuning for a specific setup (track with limited street driving) and weighted for me + co-driver + 1/4 tank of fuel. I spent about a week adjusting the settings before handing the setup over to experts. I watched the whole thing, got to ask questions the whole time, and see final results. The difference was night and day. Whether you spend $1000 (msrp bc) or $7000 (msrp ast 5300), getting them tuned for the driving you'll be doing is worth it. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRegvall Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I can see that for any kind of track or autox corner balance makes sense for going faster, regardless of the brand of the coilover. I guess I'd rather pay the $20 premium over an alignment rather than the $300 premium (which is the cost I had heard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 My corner balance + alignment was ~400, however, I was tuning for a specific setup (track with limited street driving) and weighted for me + co-driver + 1/4 tank of fuel. Jesus, I've gotten alignments and corner balances from some of the best shops in the nation. One of which does national champion auto-x cars (http://www.thealignmentguy.com/), the other is very successful in road racing (http://evilgeniusracing.com/). I've never spent near $200. Did that include suspension install maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 195 for each, so 390 total + 100 for fender rolling to make it all fit. They adjusted the camber plates, ride height, pre-load, etc. As other places were more and did less, I was happy with the price and quality of work. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhdrockstar Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 So I just installed my coils tonight guys. I got them in and set it on ramps to get a look at how much lower I can go. Here is a picture of my wheel gap in the front. The gap is about 1 1/2'' in front and a hair over 1'' in the rear. I will get to some more adjusting tomorrow after work. But how much further can I go safely without rubbing. Granted I am probably going to leave it at a reasonable height for awhile and let them settle before to much. Plus I don't have rolled fenders so I don't want to go to crazy right now. Any info would help. New to the coilover scene. http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/528044_10150749476734232_503749231_9761960_386651572_n.jpg -Urban Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoukiS14 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I've got a set of BC BR Outback coilovers on my wagon. I like them pretty well, but they're terribly overdamped on all but the low end of the adjustment range IMO. BTW, they always seem to leave out the most important part when they ship them: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/blaster/antiseize%20006.jpg Anti-seize should be considered assembly lube for all of the threaded and mating surfaces if you'd ever like to adjust or disassemble them after they're installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUIAAE Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 What about bearing grease, would do the same thing no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 So I just installed my coils tonight guys. I got them in and set it on ramps to get a look at how much lower I can go. Here is a picture of my wheel gap in the front. The gap is about 1 1/2'' in front and a hair over 1'' in the rear. I will get to some more adjusting tomorrow after work. But how much further can I go safely without rubbing. Granted I am probably going to leave it at a reasonable height for awhile and let them settle before to much. Plus I don't have rolled fenders so I don't want to go to crazy right now. Any info would help. New to the coilover scene. http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/528044_10150749476734232_503749231_9761960_386651572_n.jpg I set mine up to be negative in relation to the fender with 235/45/17's mounted. (you can barely get the edge of your finger between the tire and the fender). Preload is set pretty high, shocks are set on 15 clicks from hard, dont get any rubbing. Had to do a very minor roll on the back (more of flattening the lip). When you adjust, use a level surface or be sure you are measuring height from the same reference line. Set the back to be a bit higher (<1 inch) from the reference line (will help with handling a bit). For the person who wondering about the $$$ amount I spent, the space between tire & fender is the same front and rear, however, there is still a rake front to rear. No rubbing even at track speeds. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhdrockstar Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Ok so I should be able to go maybe a strong finger gap and be ok for now in the front? And I did t exactly understand what you said about the rear? Keep it greater than an inch? Or I can go a little less? Thank you for the help. -Urban Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 On 235/45/17, a weak finger(!) was enough. On 225/40/18, I have about 2 fingers. Both front and rear are the same gap. To resolve the "saggy butt" look, I added 1.25 inches of rake (lifted the back in relation to ground. For now, here's a starting set of numbers - http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3755743&postcount=5 . I'll add the ride height and fender gap tonight. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhdrockstar Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Ok I hate to sound like a noob or get on your nerves. But I just don't understand the saggy butt. You said you had a weak finger gap all around. Then you raised the rear 1.25"? So adjust the rears to a weak finger and go 1.25" up from there? Sorry I just want to get this right before allignment tomorrow. And thank you again for the info. I greatly appreciate it. -Urban Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Ok I hate to sound like a noob or get on your nerves. But I just don't understand the saggy butt. You said you had a weak finger gap all around. Then you raised the rear 1.25"? So adjust the rears to a weak finger and go 1.25" up from there? Sorry I just want to get this right before allignment tomorrow. And thank you again for the info. I greatly appreciate it. Sent you a pm. Maybe seeing it in person would help? When the tech was doing the rake, I stopped pestering him and went for a drink. :-) Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoukiS14 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 What about bearing grease, would do the same thing no? That's certainly better than nothing, but anti-seize is probably better. Be liberal with it whichever you use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5892 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I set mine to have a finger gap all the way around, and have no issues with rubbing. Had to remove my mud flaps because they would touch the ground on hard cornering :/. I am also still in stock wheels with a 215 tire. But I also have mine set at 20 clicks front and rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhdrockstar Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Yeah my front rubbed for the first time over the weekend, either from hard cornering or darn speed bumps! Looking into finding a good place now to get my fenders rolled with a little pull. -Urban Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Yeah my front rubbed for the first time over the weekend, either from hard cornering or darn speed bumps! Looking into finding a good place now to get my fenders rolled with a little pull. Outback has a fender rolling tool. Also, TC Motorsports in Auburn does rolling as well. Or you can rent one and use a heat gun and do it yourself. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhdrockstar Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Thanks John, yeah I heard outback does it, and I am interested in a road tune, so I might just get it all done at once. -Urban Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 If you do the road-tune (I'm a fan), give him a list of your goals. He can tune to your specs. Mine were very specific as to how I expected to use the car and I got what I asked for. The Dyno run was to see what numbers came out, not for any actual tuning. All we did on the dyno was drop the boost 2.5 psi. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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