Poor window design?

[nm]

Actually, the window drop causes far more issues regarding frozen doors than the subaru design up in the frozen north. Seems to create real issues when you have a think layer of ice on the car.

That is as long as you take care of the seals. Ice physically freezing on the outsiude of the car is my main problem and that impacts all designs.

[change_agent]

What kind of lubricant?

 

GM has a silicone emolument for weatherstripping...it works very well

[adidasoutback]

I think you guys are being a little critical of the window design.

 

Subaru has had the frame less windows in the outback since 1994 when they where made and legacy's even longer.

 

I have never herd of any issue with it at all. If it has a seal problem there is something wrong. Glass is a pretty non pourus surface and the rubber door glass seal isn't exactly a sponge.

 

If your having freezing problems its not subaru's design, if it where then framed doors would have the same problem with metal door frame to the car body.

 

Also I had a Volvo S40 before with framed windows and they whistled way louder then any car I have ever driven.

 

Subaru had a good idea with it, why invest steel in the window frame which bends like a twig any ways and instead invest in more steel in the body roll cage on the car?

 

I dont know about you but Id rather survive a crash then have framed windows.

 

Also for the record many car company's started the whole 2" window down thing because expensive jags ect did and putting it on cheaper cars makes it a "cool" feature which has no real function.

 

Land rover started putting the antenna bumps on top of there cars along with Volvo simply because BMW added the shark fin to the 7 series. None of it has any function is just fluff.

 

The 2" up seal is no better then Subaru frame less and in my experience they actually leak more/easier. Take a pressure washer to a subie window and then to a new mustang vert, camry convertible or a 3 series coupe and you'll find yourself wiping the water out of all but the Subaru.

 

Also on the wind pressure at highway speeds, all cars suffer from that not just subaru's. Range Rovers suffer from a pressure issue in the sunroof. Its something that is loud and bassy but not something I would have designed a car around.

[franklin]

Well I dont know if anyone else thinks this, but it's a pretty dumb design. Every other frameless window car I have been in will drop the window a little when the door is opened and shut it again when the door is closed. This is done not only to get a better seal, but to prevent the window from BREAKING when slammed back into place. Why would Subaru leave this little feature out? Also, when its cold my doors FREEZE shut to the point where its damn near impossible to open them. I'm pretty sure its the moisture that collects because the windows are frameless and get a very poor seal! I can clearly see ice/moisture buildup back there in the mornings after its been wet from snow/rain and then refrozen. Oh, and my trunk freezes to the point it wont open either. Such a poor design!

I saw these replies coming. No Subaru design is a poor design.

They are like the Pope , infalable. If you THINK its a poor design ,your the real problem. See headlight bulbs , key fob , sticky winter windows ,etc.

[DukeTrout]

Keep working on your examples:

-headlights problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

-key fob problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

 

I'll even help you out here:

-turbo oil supply line problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

-wheel bearing problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

 

I'm sure we can think of some more. So there's no question that Subaru isn't perfect.

 

The sticky winter windows definitely sound like a maintenance issue. Keep the windows and seals clean and the seals soft, and there shouldn't be any problems. We've had our 05 OBXT in every nasty cold weather condition you can name without these problems. Then again, I periodically detail the car, including cleaning the windows and seals and conditioning the seals.

[franklin]

Keep working on your examples:

-headlights problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

-key fob problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

 

I'll even help you out here:

-turbo oil supply line problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

-wheel bearing problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

 

I'm sure we can think of some more. So there's no question that Subaru isn't perfect.

 

The sticky winter windows definitely sound like a maintenance issue. Keep the windows and seals clean and the seals soft, and there shouldn't be any problems. We've had our 05 OBXT in every nasty cold weather condition you can name without these problems. Then again, I periodically detail the car, including cleaning the windows and seals and conditioning the seals.

You say the headlight bulb problem is fixed. What was the fix ? I have not seen any person with the bulb burn out problem say the Subaru has done anything to address this.

The key FOB . What was that fix to the people with the crappy FOBs. There was none.

Overall , I love my Subaru and am happy , but they do have design screw ups. However neither Subaru or most people on this site can admit that this is true. It's denial and loyality like i've seldom seen.

Not only do they get a free pass for a faulty design , but the loyalists bash anyone who has the gall to bring up these weak points.

[franklin]

Keep working on your examples:

-headlights problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

-key fob problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

 

I'll even help you out here:

-turbo oil supply line problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

-wheel bearing problem recognized, identified, and fixed.

 

I'm sure we can think of some more. So there's no question that Subaru isn't perfect.

 

The sticky winter windows definitely sound like a maintenance issue. Keep the windows and seals clean and the seals soft, and there shouldn't be any problems. We've had our 05 OBXT in every nasty cold weather condition you can name without these problems. Then again, I periodically detail the car, including cleaning the windows and seals and conditioning the seals.

A buddy had a late model VW Jetta. They put the battery in the center of the car at the base of the windshield. Likely a good location for weight distribution. However debris would / could and did get under these batteries and plug the drain.

This would cause water to back up and flood the dash causing major damage.

Poor design ??? Hell no. The tech asked how often the owner pulled the battery to check and clean the drains.

When he replied that he never did this , he received a look of disgust.

How many cars have you owned and how often do you pull your battery to clean the drain ?

Again not a design issue a lazy owner, right?

[JL9000]

The silicone grease that comes in a tube works much better than the spray type.

[RJS5689]

A buddy had a late model VW Jetta. They put the battery in the center of the car at the base of the windshield. Likely a good location for weight distribution. However debris would / could and did get under these batteries and plug the drain.

This would cause water to back up and flood the dash causing major damage.

Poor design ??? Hell no. The tech asked how often the owner pulled the battery to check and clean the drains.

When he replied that he never did this , he received a look of disgust.

How many cars have you owned and how often do you pull your battery to clean the drain ?

Again not a design issue a lazy owner, right?

What late model Jetta are you talking about?! We've never ONCE had a Jetta in our shop with this issue....

[DukeTrout]

You say the headlight bulb problem is fixed. What was the fix ? I have not seen any person with the bulb burn out problem say the Subaru has done anything to address this.

The key FOB . What was that fix to the people with the crappy FOBs. There was none.

Overall , I love my Subaru and am happy , but they do have design screw ups. However neither Subaru or most people on this site can admit that this is true. It's denial and loyality like i've seldom seen.

Not only do they get a free pass for a faulty design , but the loyalists bash anyone who has the gall to bring up these weak points.

 

Apparently, you haven't done your homework. The bulb issue isn't solved by throwing more bulbs at it. It's related to the fan relay/ECU issue. If you haven't had the fan relay and ECU fixed, you haven't had the bulbs fixed. Disabling the DRLs appears to help, too, but the main fix is the ECU. We had early bulb depletion on our 05 OBXT until the fan relay/ECU fix, and they've been going strong ever since. Haven't had a problem with the 07 in that regard.

 

The key fob design change can be retrofitted onto pre-06 fobs. If you ask nicely, I bet your dealer will do it for free. I haven't seen a need to do that, because the poor design of the fob is countered by the good design of the lock system: if you unlock your car but don't open a door in 30 seconds, it re-locks.

 

Oh, and I actually raised those examples not to point out that Subaru is perfect, but rather to show that they acknowledge (as do most of the members of this site) that they aren't perfect. However, they often work pretty quickly to resolve issues that do crop up. I think there are other members who have much more critical problems with their cars who have more reason to complain than getting worked up about their windows getting frozen due to inadequate maintenance.

[isaacpeel]

i thought all cars were like that???

 

+1

[franklin]

Apparently, you haven't done your homework. The bulb issue isn't solved by throwing more bulbs at it. It's related to the fan relay/ECU issue. If you haven't had the fan relay and ECU fixed, you haven't had the bulbs fixed. Disabling the DRLs appears to help, too, but the main fix is the ECU. We had early bulb depletion on our 05 OBXT until the fan relay/ECU fix, and they've been going strong ever since. Haven't had a problem with the 07 in that regard.

 

The key fob design change can be retrofitted onto pre-06 fobs. If you ask nicely, I bet your dealer will do it for free. I haven't seen a need to do that, because the poor design of the fob is countered by the good design of the lock system: if you unlock your car but don't open a door in 30 seconds, it re-locks.

 

Oh, and I actually raised those examples not to point out that Subaru is perfect, but rather to show that they acknowledge (as do most of the members of this site) that they aren't perfect. However, they often work pretty quickly to resolve issues that do crop up. I think there are other members who have much more critical problems with their cars who have more reason to complain than getting worked up about their windows getting frozen due to inadequate maintenance.

I had my ecu /relay recall checked. It was fine. It still ate bulbs like no tommorow. I did my homework and it still ate bulbs.

The FOB I got used to . Ill live with it.

Your replies are consistant with my origional point. Subaru has no less than perfect equiptment designs , just faulty owners.

[ehsnils]

silicon spray lubricant. You can use it to lube your door locks, rubber weather stripping, and even your wiper blades. its moisturizes the rubber, but doesnt leave a greasy mess behind.

 

I wouldn't recommend it on the wiper blades since that can transfer onto the glass and cause a degradation in vision in darkness and rain when the water accumulates in a gazillion of small droplets on the windscreen instead of being wiped off properly.

[DukeTrout]

I had my ecu /relay recall checked. It was fine. It still ate bulbs like no tommorow. I did my homework and it still ate bulbs.

The FOB I got used to . Ill live with it.

Your replies are consistant with my origional point. Subaru has no less than perfect equiptment designs , just faulty owners.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you're still going through bulbs. That sucks. What do you mean by "I had my ecu/relay recall checked"? The recall was expanded to all 05 ecus, iirc. We didn't have any overcycling of the fan, and they still replaced the ecu in our OB. If it should have been replaced and wasn't, then it might be worthwhile to have them double-check.

 

And as for my attitude about Subaru, you seem not to be reading anything that I'm writing. SUBARU DESIGNS ARE NOT PERFECT!!!! I've been saying so from the beginning. If anything, they are quirky in a way that most owners would find annoying if they had to think about it. However, those quirks provide some interesting advantages, much like the way BMW puts the batteries in very strange places in order to balance out the car, but makes servicing them difficult.

 

One reason I'm touchy about the frameless windows is that I think it is a desirable attribute that is part of what I like about Subarus, but yet when they take the Impreza mainstream, it's one of the things they cut out of the design. I do not want Subaru dumbing down their designs to the lowest common demominator in order to go mainstream. Owners should be willing to do basic maintenance in order to keep their cars functioning well. The next step from a "maintenance free" car is one that drives itself, so you can take a nap on your drive to and from work. No, thank you.

[absolutsnwbrdr]

^I'm with you when it comes to the frameless windows.... I love it! None of my Sub's have had the frame and its just something I've fallen in love with! I dont notice any more/less noice compared to my friends cars.

 

In the summer when the windows are down, its nice to not get whacked in the face with the frame or having to lean back just a tad to avoid getting hit when getting in or out of the car.

[atouk]

The only thing that bugs me about the windows is how slow they are to raise or lower. Does that have something to do with the frameless design, or is it just another bit of Subaru "character"?

[DukeTrout]

It's probably a factor of the robust, direct-drive mechanism. If you don't have a (probably plastic) gear set in there making it move faster, then the window raises slower. Then again, it is a much better design if you want the mechanism to last for 10+ years.

[ehsnils]

The speed wouldn't be as irritating if all windows had the auto-feature and not only the driver's window.

[absolutsnwbrdr]

yeah thats a very nice feature on my friends '03 325xi, along with the "key-in-the-door-all-windows-down" feature...

 

 

but i would NEVER trade my Legacy for his car!

[DukeTrout]

The speed wouldn't be as irritating if all windows had the auto-feature and not only the driver's window.

 

Agreed! Not to mention auto-down.

[Bbc84]

The only thing that bugs me about the windows is how slow they are to raise or lower. Does that have something to do with the frameless design, or is it just another bit of Subaru "character"?

 

 

+1 on the speed. Takes forever, especially if Im trying to close all windows at once. On my other family cars they are super fast up and down.

 

W/ auto up and down, it would make it much better. I wonder what it would take to make all 4 windows auto up and auto down.

[fishbone]

What bothers me about my 05's windows is not having auto up and down for the driver and passenger. My crappy Altima had it.

[cman7]

+1 on the speed and the regulators. My honda has similar problems though. Subaru and Honda just can't seem to get windows right. My old 95 explorer's windows worked perfectly up until a few months ago when we junked it. In fact it was probably the best thing that worked on the car with exception of the heater. That thing is quite possibly hotter than hell. The A/C is a different story though. Broke about 3 years after purchase.