rubberman Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Just swapped the VB with an IPT VB. Everything went fine with the install other than being really messy. I made sure that each of the connectors were connected properly when putting the new VB in and the fluid level is fine. After a short test drive, I got 2 CEL codes: P0700 Transmission Control System Malfunction P0710 Transmission fluid temperature sensor circuit malfunction (Fixed) Added - P1710 Torque Converter Turbine 2 Speed Signal Circuit 2 Malfunction CEL is on, Sport is flashing, Cruise light is flashing. I tried pulling the battery cable overnight, no luck with the TCU error. I've already picked up a new scantool and reset the codes, but they come right back after driving a short distance. Does anyone know where the 5EAT trans fluid temp sensor is on the VB or in/around the trans pan so that I can try to troubleshoot this problem? This sucks if I have to drain the fluid again and pull that trans pan and I want to be sure I know what to check/look at if I have to go through this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Just swapped the VB with an IPT VB. Everything went fine with the install other than being really messy. I made sure that each of the connectors were connected properly when putting the new VB in and the fluid level is fine. After a short test drive, I got 2 CEL codes: P0700 Transmission Control System Malfunction P0710 Transmission fluid temperature sensor circuit malfunction CEL is on, Sport is flashing, Cruise light is flashing. I tried pulling the battery cable overnight, no luck with the TCU error. I've already picked up a new scantool and reset the codes, but they come right back after driving a short distance. Does anyone know where the 5EAT trans fluid temp sensor is on the VB or in/around the trans pan so that I can try to troubleshoot this problem? This sucks if I have to drain the fluid again and pull that trans pan and I want to be sure I know what to check/look at if I have to go through this again. Not good for sure. I would call IPT. They are the experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKLGT Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 wow. Don't know what's wrong, but I've swapped out my VB 3 times now and never any CEL's. Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atc5 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Call John at IPT first thing tomorrow. He is familiar w/ this VB so be sure to tell him that you got it from me. I'm really sorry you're having these troubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 Call John at IPT first thing tomorrow. He is familiar w/ this VB so be sure to tell him that you got it from me. I'm really sorry you're having these troubles. I plan to call IPT on Monday to see if they can offer some guidance and confirm exactly what I need to check, i.e. where that trans temp sensor is exactly. Maybe a connector had some trash or something on it and is causing the problem, don't really know. Not your fault atc5, but I appreciate the thought. Sometime this is how mods turn out until small things are resolved. LOL, seems like I learn more about cars by this process than by any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 Connector circled in red is actually the front vehicle speed sensor. I found some 05 5EAT service info, it was located in doc for control valve body: MSA5T0704A144024 page 5AT-54. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 I just spoke with John at IPT. The ATF temp sensor is located on the top of the VB, it's a small blue sensor on the top edge. Will need to research the cost for a new temp sensor. John mentioned that it was easy for these temp sensors to get damaged in shipping, etc. I'd already figured that I would have to open the trans pan again, but it looks like I'll be pulling the VB once again to attempt to repair this temp sensor unless something obvious is up with the connectors, ie came loose/disconnected. I've spoken with two different dealerships regarding the temp sensors in the trans VB and nobody seems to be able to find these in any of the OE parts systems, so maybe they aren't sold separately? Per the Subaru service manual, there's two temp sensors on the VB, one on top as previously mentioned (blue sensor) & another on the bottom edge seemingly beside of the connector for the shift assy. I'll take some pictures tonight and add them to the thread. One other thing that John mentioned, as of a month ago Subaru does not sell individual solenoids for the VB (solenoids are the round cylinders on the top of the VB & have a small black plastic cap on top of each). He mentioned that about half of the VB's they receive get solenoids damaged in shipping, so that means a whole new VB if this occurs. They are checking with Subaru again to see if sales of these solenoids has changed, but just a note of warning to anyone working with or shipping their valve body - be careful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Ok, I figured everything out (whew). I have learned a volume about the VB in the AT in a few days due to nearly shitting a brick thinking that I might potentially have a $1000 doorstop. I'm putting a lot of details into these posts in hopes that if someone else ever has this problem or another VB issue, they won't struggle with the lack of VB info like I did. I searched all over this site, Nasioc (posted same initial thread there also - no response which is rare), and through google for quite a while without any luck. Hopefully someone can now find the specific reference info quickly and resolve their issues quickly without paying the dealership $$$ for troubleshooting things. Subaru does not sell any replacement sensors or parts for the VB, so if there's a problem, you'd better pray you still have your warranty or cough up $1000+ for a new VB. If you ever swap VB's, be sure that they don't fall over. They are a bit top heavy and don't sit very well on the side, so be careful and support them properly. With the P1710 code, the car would not shift well maybe %50 of the time with the roughest being the lower gears (1st-3rd). The trans was effectively in limp mode resulting in rough shifts, would not shift into 5th, nor downshift very well. All of these are symptons of a speed sensor problem as noted in the Subaru 5EAT service manual docs. For the applicable service docs, get the 05-06 5EAT versions and look up the following (these are the last two digits of the filenames): List of Diagnostic Trouble Codes (57) Learning Control (54) - how to get the TCU to avoid shift shock when the trans was worked on. Electrical Component Location (48) - page 5AT(diag)-10 shows the VB and components (temp sensors, speed sensors, etc). As many know, the AP will not pick up TCU codes. All that it would report was the general AT fault P0700. The scantool that I bought at Advanced Auto picked up all the codes. The P0710 was a temp sensor code that was tripped when I was adding fluid to the tranny, this resolved itself within a few cycles since the fluid level was correct. The P1710 code was new and was actually the culprit for all of my problems. This code relates the TC Turbine 2 speed sensor which is located on top of the VB. As a result, the whole VB must be removed to inspect this sensor. I picked up this VB used, and it was mentioned that IPT had inspected the VB and resoldered one of the ground pins. One of the wires had broken off at a contact for the sensor and this caused the CEL faults, etc. To me it looked like two wires were actually resoldered and they did not seem very secure, one was broken and the other looked like it might break as well. I fixed both connections pretty quickly and I'm now waiting overnight for the permatex gasket seal on the trans pan to fully cure before I refill the trans with fluid. If the Subaru three bond seal cures quickly then I will get some of that to have on hand so that I don't have to wait 24 hours again. Full test comes in about 20 hours when I can fill the trans and go for a test drive. Please God let this be over... First picture, sensor flipped over showing the metal terminal and broken wire. Second pic shows the black and white wires fixed and the sensor back in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Glad you got her figured out! Couple of questions, where'd you get the service doc? Is it the 75+ PDF posted in the vacation pix thread? Second, what scantool did you get? I ask because I ran into issues getting the right TCU codes to show up on a couple of diagnostics too and if I didn't know better they would have ended up sending me on a wild goose chase and replacing several hundred dollar parts that were not faulty. Just a heads-up, may not take the codes at face value in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atc5 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Nice troubleshooting and I agree..there isn't jack squat on the web about these VB's. Again, i'm really sorry that you had to go through this. I know what it's like to swap VB's 2x in a matter of weeks. I hope this resolves the issue and glad it was something as "simple" as this (again, realizing the PITA factor is extraordinary). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Glad you got her figured out! Couple of questions, where'd you get the service doc? Is it the 75+ PDF posted in the vacation pix thread? Second, what scantool did you get? I ask because I ran into issues getting the right TCU codes to show up on a couple of diagnostics too and if I didn't know better they would have ended up sending me on a wild goose chase and replacing several hundred dollar parts that were not faulty. Just a heads-up, may not take the codes at face value in the future. I found the files that I needed here: (smooth five) http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44988&highlight=vacation+pix Will post updated info this evening on the generic scantool that I got at Advance Auto, was about $85. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 My car is due for a rear speed sensor replacement tomorrow so the AT pan has to come down. They are to use a sealant when re-attaching it, right? Any specific kind? LE: nevermind, found it. Three-bond liquid gasket or equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 The scantool that I used was: Actron Pocketscan Plus (CP9410). Website is http://www.actron.com To seal the oilpan, I used Permatex Ultra Copper High Temp RTV silicone. Dries in an hour and fully cures in 24 hours. After getting home from work this evening I expected to find the oil pan sealed, but apparently the RTV silicone that I had was old or something and it never cured. So, I got to take the oil pan off again, clean everything, and reapply new sealant that I just bought. This is turning into a second job with working on this each evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I recommend Permatex Right Stuff for sealing oil pans. Works instantly, no cure time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 I recommend Permatex Right Stuff for sealing oil pans. Works instantly, no cure time. Thanks for the suggestion, will definitely be looking for that to put in the toolbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 Success! I let the gasket seal cure overnight and kept the garage heater on to speed up the process. Added ~6.5-7 quarts trans fluid, drove down my street, then added 1 quart. Drove around for 3.2 miles (Subaru doc recommends 3-6 miles), then checked the fluid and it was on the Hot low mark with the motor running. Added ~11oz to go from Hot low mark to the Hot high level on the dipstick. Trans shifts nice and firm, got on it a little on the way to work in D and Sport mode, shifts fine with no CEL's, etc. Feels fine, will hammer it some on the way home this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Nice, glad to hear everything is OK. So did you follow the instructions on how to reset the TCU learning, I think there are some steps outlined. If not, personally, I plan on having my dealer reset the TCU after I do my VB. It'll take a couple hundred miles for it to learn and properly set in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 I haven't followed the instructions for getting the TCU to relearn the new VB. I don't have a way of resetting the TCU other than as you suggested, visiting the dealer. I figure that it should relearn the VB in enough cycles/miles to adjust to the changes without any issues. Driving this morning I could hardly tell any difference in general shifting with the new VB, so it is already pretty smooth. Now it just needs to learn the firmer shifts some when given the opportunityat WOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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