jazzgitah Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I have an intermittent problem on my 1998 Legacy AWD wagon. This comes and goes, but sometimes there is a pronounced shake...roughness...vibration...when I turn the car left or right. It doesn't happen when pointing the car straight. Anyone have any experience with this problem? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzgitah Posted September 12, 2008 Author Share Posted September 12, 2008 another thing is, when it happens besides the vibration there is a heaviness to the feel. Also, this seems to come from the front end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srgdrum Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 CV joints. Possibly some tires issues too. See what the tires look like and get back to us. Crawl up under there and see if the rubber boots on the cv's is torn or if you see any grease/fluid/lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzgitah Posted September 12, 2008 Author Share Posted September 12, 2008 tires and cv boots look fine. Is there any reservoir that I might check that relates to the AWD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casey jones Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 You have AWD bind, the center differential/clutch pack in your transmission is starting to fail. It's a common symptom of higher mileage Subies, primarily in the auto trans. If you haven't done a flush in a while or ran a few tires with drastically different air pressure, then this can/will wear the center dif over time. The best thing is to check the air pressure in all of your tires. Then flush the trans and add a friction modifier. Go to a GM dealer and see if they have the limited slip lubricant, it's in a small bottle and pour that whole bottle into your trans along with the new fluid. Sometimes this fixed it and sometimes it doesn't, depends on the severity of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzgitah Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 Thanks Casey. I'll get on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzgitah Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 Tranny shop recommended against flush saying that flushing can do damage. They changed fluid, filter and gasket ($80). I then put in the GM limited slip additive. In researching this, I have seen some mention of putting a fuse in the FWD slot in fuse box. I don't see that in my fuse box. Remember, I have a '98 Legacy. Also, there is mention of doing 100 donuts in each direction. I'll see what the fluid change and additive do, but wondering about the other things and I assume this might just be a stopgap measure and that ultimately I will have to have the center differential duty solinoid and/or clutch pack repaird or replaced. Has anyone had this done and have a cost estimate? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 You have AWD bind, the center differential/clutch pack in your transmission is starting to fail. It's a common symptom of higher mileage Subies, primarily in the auto trans. If you haven't done a flush in a while or ran a few tires with drastically different air pressure, then this can/will wear the center dif over time. I was thinking transfer bind as well. OP- has there been a time where just 2 tires have been replaced on the car? How frequent were the tire rotations? Also if it is the transfer clutches, you are looking at a new clutch pack kit, hub and solenoid. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdubs Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Add a product called Lubegard to your new ATF, it works really well with curing the symptoms of the torque bind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzgitah Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 I've only had the car since Feb, 5k miles ago. The tires are Michelins in really good shape, all the same. I did notice last week that the left front was down to 26lbs, the others were 30lbs. Rotation is a ? The car has 137k miles on it, but was well cared for, dealer serviced by the original owner. Is this transfer bind curable or will the fix need to be made eventually and approx. how much am I looking at? As far as Lubegard, I'll take a look at it. I just added the GM limited slip lubricant to my new fluid. I will have to drain out some fluid to make room before adding anything else. Thanks for the comments and suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Ok. I wasn't sure if you were the original owners or not. As for the transfer bind it depends, but most cases require new clutches/hub/solenoid. If so it can range from $800-$1300 depending on what parts are used and who does the job. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casey jones Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 If the friction modifier/new fluid doesn't help,then usually the clutch pack is beyond repair and a new one is needed. From being out in the field, it was usually a 50/50 chance that it would fix it or the pack would have to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzgitah Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 The tranny shop man said that only about 1/3 of the fluid is replaced in a fluid change (that sounds strange but you know what i mean....2/3 old fluid stays in the system) and he said because of the high detergent content of new fluid it's not advisable to put 100% new fluid in an old tranny. This sounds reasonable and he would have more to gain by having me do repeat services in a short time period to get all the fluid renewed. I didn't mention the torque bind because I didn't want to bias him and this is still just a shot in the dark attempt at thwarting a more expensive repair. So is it advisable under the circumstances to take a chance and do the service and the modifier again in a month or two and perhaps once more after that in order to provide the best chance for a fix. However, after all that I would have about $300 in 3 services and it's still a roll of the dice. Oh well. there are bigger problems in life. Thanks all. BTW, this is a very responsive and helpful forum. My previous car's forums, Acura and Lexus, were primarily full of hot rodding kids (nothing wrong with that, but.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 We have flushed transmission with 150k on them with zero issues. That thinking is very "old school" being most of the transmissions today are built better. If it has been maintained throughout its like, I can't see the harm being the fluids been changed regularly. However, that may not fix it either. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinniety Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 sorry blackfang but the mechanic is correct. I have seen newer trannies do nothing after a full fluid change. I have a few friends that are mechanics and i use to be one myself til i decided it was fun as a hobby but not as a career. Dropping the pan gets rid of the fluid that is in the pan and thats it. THe rest of the fluid that is in the converter or lines where ever else the fluid travels is left behind. That is why they recommend to keep on the maintenance schedule so you donthave to worry about things like this. you can take the chance but i wouldnt. Did you ever think of somethng to do with the power steering? I have seen steering racks be bad and give problems when they areturning but no problem at all when going straight. Just as idea good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 sorry blackfang but the mechanic is correct. I have seen newer trannies do nothing after a full fluid change. I have a few friends that are mechanics and i use to be one myself til i decided it was fun as a hobby but not as a career. Dropping the pan gets rid of the fluid that is in the pan and thats it. THe rest of the fluid that is in the converter or lines where ever else the fluid travels is left behind. That is why they recommend to keep on the maintenance schedule so you donthave to worry about things like this. How so? The car has been serviced regularly at a dealership according to the OP. So all the fluids have been changed periodically. So flushing the fluid at this stage shouldn't be a problem because it has been well cared for. So his idea of it being a bad idea and hurting the transmission solely based on mileage is very old school way of thinking. Now when you have a ton of miles and it has never been changed and already has developed an issue, then I can see not flushing it or even changing it for that matter. The reason why nothing happens is when there is already a problem there, some people still like to flush them and that doesn't help at all. Again, we flush them well into the 150k range and even in the 2xxk range without a problem. However, if the transmission is not shifting or if their is a problem, we don't flush them because that is not the repair that is needed. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinniety Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Agreed. If the car was maintanied and the tranny had the fluid changed before when it was scheduled to then you will have no problems doing the FULL flush. If you cant find receipts and the dealer cant find anything themselves then i would say think twice about doing the full flush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Agreed. If the car was maintanied and the tranny had the fluid changed before when it was scheduled to then you will have no problems doing the FULL flush. If you cant find receipts and the dealer cant find anything themselves then i would say think twice about doing the full flush. The OP already knows that the car has been well cared for and serviced at the dealership. This has already been stated. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdubs Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Have you felt any differences at all? Generally, with the additives, the change is pretty much felt right away. Hopefully there was some curing of your binding problem. It is a pain in the ass to cure this issue via going into the transmission itself. I finally convinced myself I'll just never purchase another freakin' subaru auto tranny ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzgitah Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 OP here, yes I'm at the end of day 2 and no recurrence of problem. I suspect heat may have played a part and it's been really hot here in FL lately. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will stay fixed. A few posts back I asked if doing a couple of more fluid changes with additive would better my chances of permanence....any thoughts. I need to do them myself to save the $80 per. I wont need a new filter or gasket, just fluid and additive. Is it easy to drop pan? what are the steps....it's a 98 Legacy wagon AT AWD.....thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Personally if it isn't doing it, I wouldn't touch a thing until it does again. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzgitah Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 going on 1 week and all is well thanks to fluid change and GM limited slip lubricant additive. No shudder, vibration, etc. Hope this thread helps others who experience these symptoms in the future. Thanks for all the responses and help. ....1998 Legacy wagon w.137k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Awesome! Good to hear. Just keep us posted. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzgitah Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Reporting back that about 2 weeks ago the shudder, vibration, etc on turns returned. I drained a few ounces of tranny fluid and added another 4 0z bottle of GM limited slip differential lube. Two weeks later all is well, but I know I will have to have the AWD clutch pack fixed....replaced? That is my question....what is the fix, the procedure and how much can I expect to pay? Car now has about 138k miles. Also, even though I think I know the problem, I figure I'll have to wait until symptoms return and get a few estimates. Thanks for any advice and info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Sorry to see that the problem has still not gone away. As for replacing the transfer clutch kit/solenoid and hub it can be anywhere from $800-$1300 depending on where you go. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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