Have we lost our minds?

[Joon525]

Just do it if it makes you happy and you've really done the number crunching with results that put you on top.

[sdvictor]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/22/oil.bubble.economics

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/22/commodities.usa

 

Libya's leading oil official, Shokri Ghanem, told Bloomberg TV: "It is out of our hands. $200 a barrel is not logical but even $135 is not logical, so yes oil could reach $200 a barrel. Why not?"

 

Enough said

[schneiks]

what about an impreza?

[OGG]

what about an impreza?

 

It's still in the running as well as a base 2009 Forester. When she called the dealer for a final pay off they told her they want to keep her in a Subaru(of course) so she's going down there tomorrow to see what kind of deal they'll give her.

The problem with another 'ru is whether it's an Impreza, Legacy, Forester, or Outback, the 2.5 gets pretty much the same mileage in all of them. It will definitely be an improvement(should be right in the middle between the Corolla and her LGT) but I don't know if it will be enough of a difference to be worth it especially since the Subaru will probably end up costing ~$4k more.

 

One important point I forgot on my initial post is that we got it on a "smart buy" so the balloon is due October 2009. At that point we'll be in basically the same situation we are now since to trade in right now is a wash.

 

Edit: my wife called the insurance company and the Corola will cost $200/yr more to insure.. There's no discount for the VSC:mad: and apparently the new Corolla doesn't have DRLs so we don't get that discount.

:mad:

[tmillard]

I had a 99 Civic 5 speed that I just got rid of for my Legacy Wagon (kid on the way). I really enjoyed it. If you get a 5 speed you can really whip it and have some fun in it. I know it will be no-where near a LGT but still they can be enjoyable little cars. I would put mine through the paces and run to 5-6k on almost every shift and still get 36mpg. I live in VT and was fine with a good set of snow tires. you really do not need AWD (I know I know sacrilege for many of you). If you are interested I have some good Nokia Hakkas in 185/65/14.

I say go for it. You can always go back if you want. An alternative is buy a beater small car, park your pick-up at the job and commute in the beater until the job is done.

[tmillard]

:lol: $2-$3 a gal that's cute. Gas prices will never go down significantly. The price rises dollars and falls pennies. Once people are willing to pay $5 why only charge $3.

 

Wait till we have a stronger dollar and we will see cheaper gas. If the dollar was on par with the Euro our gas would be approx. 2.50-2.75. It is not so far fetched to see cheaper gas. In addition to a stronger dollar all of the other sources of oil that were cost prohibitive previously are coming online, alternative fuels, and alternative sources of oil. I am not going to make the prediction that it will happen over night but I think it may help to have an oil man OUT of the white house.

[OGG]

I had a 99 Civic 5 speed that I just got rid of for my Legacy Wagon (kid on the way). I really enjoyed it. If you get a 5 speed you can really whip it and have some fun in it. I know it will be no-where near a LGT but still they can be enjoyable little cars. I would put mine through the paces and run to 5-6k on almost every shift and still get 36mpg. I live in VT and was fine with a good set of snow tires. you really do not need AWD (I know I know sacrilege for many of you). If you are interested I have some good Nokia Hakkas in 185/65/14.

I say go for it. You can always go back if you want. An alternative is buy a beater small car, park your pick-up at the job and commute in the beater until the job is done.

 

We looked at the Civic and the Fit. She liked the Fit better but we realized once again that we aren't "Honda people". Unfortunately a 5 speed is out of the question around here and the Hondas gain greatly by having a manual.

Snow tires are a no brainer on a 2wd car, IMO(we run snows on the LGT) as true "all season" tires don't exist(as a Vermonter you know what I mean;))

As far as leaving my truck on the job, I can't. I may be at 2 or 3 jobs in one day and I often get a call in the morning to go to a different job than expected. Believe me, at this point, I'd dump the truck if I could.

[OGG]

Wait till we have a stronger dollar and we will see cheaper gas. If the dollar was on par with the Euro our gas would be approx. 2.50-2.75. It is not so far fetched to see cheaper gas. In addition to a stronger dollar all of the other sources of oil that were cost prohibitive previously are coming online, alternative fuels, and alternative sources of oil. I am not going to make the prediction that it will happen over night but I think it may help to have an oil man OUT of the white house.

 

I wish I shared your optimism but in my 38 years on the planet I've never seen gas prices drop like that. Will it get cheaper, sure, but what will that actually be? As I stated before, it rises dollars and falls pennies(dimes at best). If it goes to $7,$8 or even $10 the "reduction" will still be over $5. Will alternative fuels help? Eventually, but we're still fumbling in the dark right now. The problem is we'll buy the gas no matter what because we don't have a choice.

 

I've seriously been thinking of getting a diesel and running it on vegetable oil just so I can say F you to the oil companies. If I lived in a warmer place I'd have done it already.

[canddmeyer]

Toyota makes a dependable long lasting vehicle IMO, but I'd think you'd be remiss if you and the Mrs. didn't test drive a 2008 Elantra or a 2009 Sonata. You won't get DRL's, but everything else you want is available and then some. Sure they depreciate like rocks, but buy gap insurance if you can. The Elantra probably best fits your wants, and MSRP on a fully loaded model with every available option is $17,000 after rebate, so you'd have room to dicker from there.

 

The loaded Elantra SE will have heated leather seats, stability control, a decent stereo, the XM you desire, and MPG comparable to a Corolla for a lot less $.

 

I own a Toyota and a Honda, but Hyundai is in the crosshairs nowadays.

[tmillard]

I've seriously been thinking of getting a diesel and running it on vegetable oil just so I can say F you to the oil companies. If I lived in a warmer place I'd have done it already.

 

My wife runs a 2003 diesel Jetta Wagon. You can run SVO in colder climates. Here is a conversion kit:

http://www.greasecar.com/

 

I have no experience with it. I have done a bunch of research and decided I didn't really want to get involved with the process of converting waste oil. I will probably start considering it when the Subaru and/or Honda Diesels come to our shores.

[OGG]

Toyota makes a dependable long lasting vehicle IMO, but I'd think you'd be remiss if you and the Mrs. didn't test drive a 2008 Elantra or a 2009 Sonata. You won't get DRL's, but everything else you want is available and then some. Sure they depreciate like rocks, but buy gap insurance if you can. The Elantra probably best fits your wants, and MSRP on a fully loaded model with every available option is $17,000 after rebate, so you'd have room to dicker from there.

 

The loaded Elantra SE will have heated leather seats, stability control, a decent stereo, the XM you desire, and MPG comparable to a Corolla for a lot less $.

 

I own a Toyota and a Honda, but Hyundai is in the crosshairs nowadays.

 

When I drove one of the last generation Elantras I was pleasantly surprised.

I suggested the Hyundais but since this is going to be a car we only keep for 5 years or less it would be nice if we could sell it for something when we're done with it. They're also not as safe as the Corolla, get slightly worse gas mileage(~2 mpg) and probably cost even more to insure.

[John M]

If all you've ever wanted is a transportation appliance, the Legacy wasn't for you in the first place. There are plenty of cheap cars that'll get you A to B using less gas. In the end, you're still driving an econobox. I couldn't stand driving such a plain utilitarian blob of a car. Getting out of an almost-paid-for car in exchange for something that gets a few more mpg just wouldn't be worth the tradeoff to me, both financially and physically.

 

I get 18 mpg in town, an easy 24-25 on the highway, and I drive like a maniac. I'd never give up everything I like about this car for the ability to run cheap gas. Assuming an empty tank, that's a whopping $2.40 per tank that costs $60 in the first place. Yeah, that's savings that'll add up quickly...

 

The reason I bought my first Subaru is because they're made for people who want something more from their car. Sometimes it isn't even quantifiable. A fun, comfortable drive at 20 mpg is worth more to me than a boring commute at 30 mpg.

 

BTW, +1 on the Hyundai. It has double 5 star front crash rating and 4 star side impact. Sounds identical to the Legacy to me. At least you'd have more vehicle for your money and a 10 year warranty to go with it. Is 2 "theoretical" mpg going to kill your budget? Why not choose the Civic then, since it'll probably top the Corolla by a mpg? Yay, an entire car purchase decided by the government's projected gas mileage!

 

BTW, my Dodge Ram (Hemi) gets ~ 10 mpg in town the way I drive it. Since it's got a few mods, it gets premium and I haven't even considered selling it.

[OGG]

If all you've ever wanted is a transportation appliance, the Legacy wasn't for you in the first place. There are plenty of cheap cars that'll get you A to B using less gas. In the end, you're still driving an econobox. I couldn't stand driving such a plain utilitarian blob of a car. Getting out of an almost-paid-for car in exchange for something that gets a few more mpg just wouldn't be worth the tradeoff to me, both financially and physically.

 

I get 18 mpg in town, an easy 24-25 on the highway, and I drive like a maniac. I'd never give up everything I like about this car for the ability to run cheap gas. Assuming an empty tank, that's a whopping $2.40 per tank that costs $60 in the first place. Yeah, that's savings that'll add up quickly...

 

The reason I bought my first Subaru is because they're made for people who want something more from their car. Sometimes it isn't even quantifiable. A fun, comfortable drive at 20 mpg is worth more to me than a boring commute at 30 mpg.

 

BTW, +1 on the Hyundai. It has double 5 star front crash rating and 4 star side impact. Sounds identical to the Legacy to me. At least you'd have more vehicle for your money and a 10 year warranty to go with it. Is 2 "theoretical" mpg going to kill your budget? Why not choose the Civic then, since it'll probably top the Corolla by a mpg? Yay, an entire car purchase decided by the government's projected gas mileage!

 

BTW, my Dodge Ram (Hemi) gets ~ 10 mpg in town the way I drive it. Since it's got a few mods, it gets premium and I haven't even considered selling it.

 

We don't really just want a transportation appliance, that's our dilemma. My wife's last car was an '97 OB Ltd, the car I sold to get my truck was a '00 Impreza 2.5RS, before that we had a '93 Legacy wagon and a '90 Loyale turbo with AWD. You see the pattern? We've had at least one AWD subaru since '91.

The more we think about the reality of giving up AWD and paying almost 20% more insurance for a FWD econo car, the harder it becomes. My wife got caught in a torrential downpour the other day and she was able to hum along the LI Expressway at the speed limit while half the cars on the road had to pull over. That's why we love these cars.

I think we're going to wait at least until the balloon is due next october. After getting caught in the rain she suggested getting a scooter for local errands:lol: I told her if she wants to do that we should get a real bike:cool:

[irshmn]

I have an '05 Legacy GT (owned since last Nov) and I love it. However, the engine seized (there is a thread posting) with 45miles on it and is being replaced - no reason given yet. I'm seriously pissed b/c it's been with the dealer for 6, tracking to 7 weeks b/c of how the warranty work was approved.

 

My point, I have a rental '09 Corolla. The rental agency had only just taken delivery when I got it. Needless to say, it's well broken in now. At first, hated it. Now, hate it a little less... and given the how long this is dragging on, I might actually get to like this car... But it's no Legacy GT (gas mileage be dammed).

[John M]

Re-reading your first post, it looks like it all boils down to MPG and cheap maintenance. I really doubt the Corolla is ever going to do 30 mpg in combined driving; maybe 24-25 at best. Is the Subie's 20 really so bad?

 

Maintenance. What's so expensive on the Subaru? There's nothing but fluid changes for like 100k miles. Belts? Hoses? What's so scary on the Subaru that you'd want to dump the car?

 

A 250hp Legacy is not too powerful to be a daily commuter. My mother handles her 265hp Hyundai just fine (and gets 28 mpg highway). How can it be hard to drive? I've driven my cousin's auto LGT a few times and didn't see anything wrong with how it drove. Maybe you could get someone local to remap your throttle pedal with the open source software to make it respond in a more linear fashion.

 

The Corolla would be a lower monthly payment. But, you should be at least halfway through paying for your Legacy. You could always refinance that for an extra year and save a good bit on the payments, if that's a key area for you right now.

 

Anyway, just don't fall for the false economy of a cheaper car payment and better gas mileage. I'll bet the gas difference wouldn't be $30 a month.

[OGG]

Re-reading your first post, it looks like it all boils down to MPG and cheap maintenance. I really doubt the Corolla is ever going to do 30 mpg in combined driving; maybe 24-25 at best. Is the Subie's 20 really so bad?

 

Maintenance. What's so expensive on the Subaru? There's nothing but fluid changes for like 100k miles. Belts? Hoses? What's so scary on the Subaru that you'd want to dump the car?

 

A 250hp Legacy is not too powerful to be a daily commuter. My mother handles her 265hp Hyundai just fine (and gets 28 mpg highway). How can it be hard to drive? I've driven my cousin's auto LGT a few times and didn't see anything wrong with how it drove. Maybe you could get someone local to remap your throttle pedal with the open source software to make it respond in a more linear fashion.

 

The Corolla would be a lower monthly payment. But, you should be at least halfway through paying for your Legacy. You could always refinance that for an extra year and save a good bit on the payments, if that's a key area for you right now.

 

Anyway, just don't fall for the false economy of a cheaper car payment and better gas mileage. I'll bet the gas difference wouldn't be $30 a month.

 

Actually the Corolla gets 28-29 MPG in real world mixed driving according to multiple testing sources(CU, edmunds, etc). She got 24MPG in her outback consistently.

The car's not hard to drive, just hard to drive slow;). A little squeeze on the gas while merging and you're doing 80 mph up someone's ass. I think the biggest problem with the way the car drives is our local traffic patterns and the way the boost comes on in the automatic. Even if your on the LIE the traffic speeds up and slows down so much that you are never really doing highway driving and lately with all the "hyper-milers" trying to squeeze every inch out of a gallon of gas:rolleyes: it's getting a bit ridiculous. Do people think if they accelerate slow enough the car won't use any gas?!

 

$500 at 30k seemed a bit expensive for service to me but I guess it's not completely out of whack for the dealer considering the extra differentials. My wife refers to it as her $500 oil change.

I think we're keeping it for now. The more we research and crunch numbers the better it sounds to keep the car and it is a damn nice car. It's hard to dump the nicest car you've owned for gas savings. I think I'm going to re-insulate and get a pellet stove for the house instead and save on heating oil.

[OGG]

I'm now pretty certain that my wife has lost her mind:eek:

She's seriously considering replacing her LGT with a :shudder: Prius.

We went to drive one today and I really wanted her to hate it but she didn't. It was better than I expected but for $25k, I don't think so, and I really don't think we need all that smug:p

Upside:It's great on gas and...um...yeah...it's...great on gas

Downside:it's a @#$%^& Prius:rolleyes:

[ehsnils]

And it's not even a wagon!

 

Don't forget that the Prius in reality isn't that environment friendly - the manufacturing process is causing it to have a lifetime impact as bad as a Hummer...

[OGG]

And it's not even a wagon!

 

Don't forget that the Prius in reality isn't that environment friendly - the manufacturing process is causing it to have a lifetime impact as bad as a Hummer...

 

It is a hatch with quite a bit of space and, most importantly, a rear wiper.

We're considering it purely for selfish American reasons.

Screw the environment, we're looking to save money on gas:p

[spongemonster]

Umm doesn't anyone know that the Matrix is again available with awd and it's *gasp* a wagon! Maybe that's a better fit for you.

[OGG]

Umm doesn't anyone know that the Matrix is again available with awd and it's *gasp* a wagon! Maybe that's a better fit for you.

 

 

The Matrix was in the running and would be OK if it it got decent gas mileage but the AWD one is only rated 20/26 which is the same as a Forester, Legacy or Outback and only a couple MPG better than the LGT. It also costs about the same as a Forester X once you add AWD to it and the Forester is much more vehicle.

[change_agent]

Up here it is a no brainer...the Pontiac Vibe...the Matrix cousin base model with air and cruse is the same price with taxes as the Sport Package Impresa, 4 door with taxes..and the base Impressa is even cheaper..and has all the features of the Vibe and Matrix..again perhaps the pricing may be different in the US for these two cars.

 

..and I am getting 10liters to the 100km..in a NA 2.5i Wagon...that is somewhere between 25-28 mgs...and the Impreza is lighter than the Legacy wagon...eaily get 30mg...for a daly drive...

[kopy_kat]

It is a hatch with quite a bit of space and, most importantly, a rear wiper.

We're considering it purely for selfish American reasons.

Screw the environment, we're looking to save money on gas:p

 

i did a little calc with the prius vs corolla. driving @ 12.5k miles per year with gas prices @ $6 it takes 9+ years to recoup the difference. or if you can drive around 105k miles really fast.. with the price of the corolla @ 16.5 and the prius at 21.5. i just went with straight msrp. the difference might be more because prius are in demand. i front end loaded the gas @ $6 so it is actually in prius's favor. mileage use was avg 32.5 vs 43.5mpg(s).

 

i dunno.. or if you drive enuf that the monthly you pay for the prius is offset by the gas you save vs corolla. example prius @ $325/mo(loan cost) + $125(gas) vs corolla @ $225/mo + $230. if the loan parameters are the same (length & rate) other than the principle then yeah go for the prius.

 

does that make sense?

 

as for 'green', in CA we have carpool stickers. I HATE THEM!!! driving a prius does not give you the right to drive on carpool lane!!! whoever came up with that idea is an idiot!! the carpool lane is meant to alleviate the traffic. carpool lane is not for the environmental friendly cars. carpool lane is good for the environment is a side effect of having less car on the freeways!! pissed me off when i was driving a van w/ 6 co-workers and 5 hybrids (prius, civic, and such) pulls in the carpool by themselves and congest the carpool lane!!! ARG!!!! what if everybody had 'hybrids'.. idiot!! i know it is not the drivers.. it was a perk for getting the cars.. i blame it on the person that came up w/ the stickers! </rant>

[OGG]

:woowoo:I think my wife has been convinced to keep her LGT. 3 Days of driving a rental Mazda 6 made her realize she doesn't want to give up AWD and polling everyone she talks to made her realize no-one around here gets good gas mileage. Even people with small cars usually only get ~25 at best driving like grandma. She actually got 2 mpg worse mileage in the 4 cylinder Mazda than she gets in her LGT:eek: I think the problem is the weight of her right foot. She's been driving around lately to save gas and, well... remember the VW(?) commercials with the guy with the giant lead foot?

The LGT is still in the shop for a broken shifter and the dealer gave her a 2009 Forester to drive for the weekend. She's much happier being in a Subaru and a base Forester reminds her how nice her car is.

I'm seriously considering replacing my Chevy with a 4 cyl, 2wd Tacoma. When we went to drive the Prius they had one on the showroom floor and I was surprised how nice and relatively large it was. I don't need to tow and lately I get most of the materials delivered anyway. With a utility cap it would be sufficient to carry my tools around, probably double my gas mileage and be a hell of a lot easier to park than my ext cab Chevy with an 8' bed.