Avishar Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Finally I was able to get my friend to pull his beautiful ///M out. There was no question that I would kill him from a dig so we didn't bother with that. We pulled onto the freeway and did a race from a freeway roll of about 60, he didn't make it clear when he started so when he began to pull forward I put on the WOT, by the end of third gear I caught up and was dead even with him, in fourth there was no question in each of our minds that I was pulling. By 5700 RPM I was up about 2 and 1/2 fenders on him and then we cut off as traffic began to be visible. We are both skilled drivers, him more than I as he got certification at skip barber so it was not bad driving on his part (not that it could be if you are doing a freeway roll race anyway ) After this race I killed an SLK 230 and a crossfire easily which wasn't that exciting honestly, but the fall of the legend gave me an even higher impression of the already amazing Legacy. And yes my car is a 5MT Limited and 10000000% bone stock with less than 2000 miles on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javamon Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 There was no question that I would kill him from a dig so we didn't bother with that. The appropriate m3-elitist response would be "There was no question he would kill you in the twisties" But seriously, the C&D test times for a '97 M3 are 5.5 zero-sixty, and 14 dead quarter. I'm not saying the legacy isn't good competition for an E36 (i've driven an LGT and own "the legend"), but I don't consider an LGT a known fatality unless the weather isn't prime... I can question this interesting result, however, untill my friend with the LGT, who incidentally posts here and will read this, grows some attachments and runs with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avishar Posted January 16, 2005 Author Share Posted January 16, 2005 1) Everything written in that post was approved and originally written by my friend who has the ///M3, he specifically wouldn't race me from a dig because he said "I know you'll kill me from a dig," after I beat him from the roll which was where anyone would expect the M to destroy the LGT. As for my uber-elitist response to the M3's "There was no question he would kill you in the twisties," "there is no question I would kill him in snow, rain, sleet, ice, freezing rain, hailstorms, salt flats, greased down roads, off road, basically anything less than ideal." 2) The weather outside was perfect, no rain no snow no oil or built up moisture on the freeway that could have "hindered" traction. Please remember I am a german car driver and I love german cars more than japanese cars in general (I had an E39 540i Sport and to this day its the best car I have ever owned) and that I nowhere in my original post said that the Subaru is better than the M in any way, once again pointing to my friend who told me to post that I would take him from a dig, not me. I know what car and driver says I know what road and track says and thats what worried me initially when he called me out but in all honesty you are using paper and pencil and what you read up online or in magazines while I just in real life pulled on the M3. (also look at John's time slips for the LGT, he ran a 13.9) Statistics are by professional magazine writers who have quite the experience in pushing cars to their limits but remember that you are not them therefore your results will vary. In conclusion try it yourself and video tape, and tell me what color your M3 is. if it is Estoril Blue it will be gone one week from now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javamon Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I didn't understand you to say that the subaru was better than the M, that wasn't the point of my post. The point of my post was to say that I don't think that from a dig, the LGT will "kill" an E36 M3. I just used the typical m3 owner response to counter the typical AWD owner statement, which you now inform me, wasn't even you speaking. Keep in mind that wasn't me saying "it would take the LGT in the twisties", but rather, the elitist ideal that one is better than the other. In any case, sorry. (looking past what I even admitted as your rebuttal). RE: the rest of your response, I understand. I'm not really one to get into a stat war...you think I bought an 8 year old car that requires a lot of maintanence because of what a magazine said? I bought it because when I drove it, it felt unbelievable, driving in traffic, WOT on the on-ramp, or on some random road near Nashville. I honestly didn't expect it to be that good, even accounting for my lack of adjustment to "good" cars. Journalism, as with everything else, needs to be taken for what it is. That said, I know I'm not a professional (before this post, however, you did not), but, I know it's easy to launch a stock M3 with the clutch delay valve removed. That's expierence. As such, I would imagine I could crack off a 6.0 pretty easily and repeatedly. That's based on pencil and paper of them getting a 5.5, with me being half a second slower in reality. That, imho, still doesn't equate to the LGT killing the M3 from a dig (which, again, I'll see for myself eventually, and the point of my whole post) And in the same light, I asked once before, but no one responded: how does an LGT do when you are *nice* to the tranny/clutch, from a stop? When I drop the clutch from ~3k, I get some wheelspin, and it hooks up gently. No major driveline trauma. I've only expirenced a hard 1-2 in the LGT which felt, well, traumatic. Thus, I'm guessing many LGT owners don't repeatedly do hard launches (I wouldn't). So, how does it do when you get it moving, then nail it? Numbers are what I'm looking for...say, a street start (5-60)? Mine is Estoril, btw, and I've had it for 6 months. Although it's in the garage right now. (waits for AWD response about why my car hibernates ) (and I'm thinking some more, and I understand that in reality, you just pulled on him. it would help to know exactly what speed you raced from, and what gear he was in. the us spec E36 was geared "marginally". if you started at say 55-58, it would require him to be in 3rd from a roll, because the extra 2-3 shift at 58 wouldn't be beneficial, and staying in 3rd, it would take a bit longer [gearing is close, keep in mind] to build up the momentum that one would have had from a full launch/run through 2nd. I know that everyone tries to explain away a loss and "compensate", however, with a result that's unexpected, I think it's helpful to understand why. Doesn't take a thing away from the LGT, nor the M. Just adds to the story...) Furthermore, why'd you get rid of the E39? Pops fell so much in love with my M that he's looking at low-mileage 540's right now. Any major technical issues you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 as a former e36M3 owner and then e36/8 (m coupe) owner, i could have predicted as much. the beauty of the e36m3 IS the handling. i do not mean that in a pretentious way. it's one of the best handling cars ever rated (by Car and Driver's famous Handling test where it won) and one of the best handling cars i've ever had the pleasure to drive. the E46m3, however, is more of a complete package (except for being porky) because it's got the speed to match that handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 As a current OB owner that can own more than 75% of the cars on the road, I'm happy to say that the 1 M3 I see on the highway every year with it's 55 year old, grey haired driver, won't even race me. (Insert insults in german here) #^$%&@ &$ **#&@%^!@ ((#&$&( @(@* (that was japanese reply to german insults) so i think that about settles it My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Gearing is pretty similar in the LGT. We have to shift from 2nd to 3rd at around 60 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 He would WIPE the floor with u in the twisties and why not bring it to big brother and pick on someone your own size.......... M School is now in session........................ E46///M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 True, but I would like to see how the M fares against the B spec Legacy. Just for comparisons sakes. Id really like to see how much one can beat it by given similar drivers on the same course. I recall reading a british publication called EVO which put the Eurospec STi against the eurospec M3 and they were surprised when the STi wiped the floor with the M3 by about 2 second per lap. Needless to say they were surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 RoBy, I think u could get an X, Y or Z Spec GT and the M will still hand it to him, daily. The GT is a sensational car and dont forget that the US Spec E36 and E46 are down on power compared to the Euro Specs that we downunder and in Europe. Leg GT = 250HP E36 M3 = 321HP E46 M3 = 333HP E90 M3 = 425HP Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Man, with the first 3 posts of this thread being by other people by proxy, I really don't know who is saying what. Are Germans saying that Japanese cars should be only driven while digging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 who cares about what downunder gets. this is predominantly a NA board talking abotu NA available cars. So E36 M3s are a waste of time IMHO. Money saved from an E46 M3 and put into a Cobb Stage II LGT would waste it too. I've posted before in another M3 thread that a CSL M3 was schooled by an STi Spec-C with a/c and CD player. Makes you go hmm.... Schools over and thanks for the apple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javamon Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 So E36 M3s are a waste of time IMHO. Have you ever driven one? Like the original poster said, eventually, pencil and paper figures from a magazine are just that...from a magazine. When you drive one, in reality, it's a bit harder to make that statement, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Yup. Even better. an M Coupe. was hunting to buy one but someone beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javamon Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 haha, nice, I'll give you that one then. the 315hp version? shame you didn't get it...i'd like to have one of those. but yeah, expanding a bit, i don't know if an e36 m3 was worth it originially, but for <20k today, I think it's a steal. and so, i bought one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 There's like 7 S54 M Coupe in all of Canada! But someday... someday I'll own a 'Shoe'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il collaudatore Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 No matter what car forum you go to there will eventually be a xxxxx vs. BMW. Nasioc, here, the honda forums, everywhere. It just goes to show you how good the BMW is, everybody wants to compare their car to a BMW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 No matter what car forum you go to there will eventually be a xxxxx vs. BMW. Nasioc, here, the honda forums, everywhere. It just goes to show you how good the BMW is, everybody wants to compare their car to a BMW. Absolutely. And we all have BMW to thank for our cars because without them serving as the benchmark, who knows what we'd be driving. I mean, just think if the Buick Century were the benchmark. Thankfully, BMW soldiered on with cars with great driving dynamics, and people bought them, thereby forcing the other mfgs to raise their game if they wanted to compete. We all win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 M Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Meh, let's see what a Impreza STi Spec C can do... ...nothing short of a GT3 can outrun it in teh twisties... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Last two words DM, The Twisties....period! Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue dragon Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I own both, an E46 M3, and my a 2005 LGT. The legacy would not match the BMW in any category, both being stock. The legacy does have the potential to outperform the BMW if I were to mod it to high heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ^^^ including the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ^^^ including the price. For another 15-20 grand it would destroy almost anything that isn't an exotic.. and maybe then too. Ask chucktoo when he's done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue dragon Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 pics of my garage. http://www.wardphotography.net/TI/pictures/IMG_1053.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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