fbi012 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 so I have a 2.5i which has almost 170hp, but Im thinking about improving hps to 200hp, can anyone help? its only +30hp which isnt so hard to get, but I'm not an expert and Im not sure how. Thanks. p.s.: if you refer to parts, please post a link if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Wrong forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbi012 Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 ya couldnt figure where to post it, thought this would be the closest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Header https://www.rallitek.com/products.asp?ID=99&PP=Y&HB=&ACC=&SP Pulley http://www.perrinperformance.com/Products/Legacy/Crank_Pulley.htm Air filter https://www.rallitek.com/products.asp?ID=147&PP=Y&HB=&ACC=&SP= Turbo https://www.rallitek.com/products.asp?ID=94&PP=Y&HB=&ACC=&SP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 ya couldnt figure where to post it, thought this would be the closest. I'm sure a mod will happily move this, no worries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbi012 Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 thanks clark for the links, Im considering a header, pulley and the air filter, one question though, cant I use the GT's air filter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I have no idea. If you measure you current filter we could compare it to the GT. Subaru tries to reuse as many parts as possible so my guess is yes. You could also get a short ram or cold air intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 To get close to 200chp, you can do it with bolt-ons, and those include: -2.25" Cat-Back -2.25" Race Pipe or High-Flow Cat (most use a high-flow cat) -Headers (equal-length like TWE & Cobb will garner slightly more ponies but cost about twice as much and you lose the boxer rumble of the unequal-length headers like Borla for a more refined exhaust note) -Lightweight pulleys will free up some hp that would normally be lost to the heavy rotating mass of the stock pulley, lightweight accessory pulley help slighty as well, lighter pulleys and a lighter flywheel really help response more than hp though. -Cold air intake like the Cobb/PDM units that many currently use. But at this point, you're probably going to fall still a little short of 200chp as I'm told, probably about 190-195chp, but nearly 200lb-ft of torque depending on header and various components used. To jump the barrier, changing your cams, breathing habbits is needed. Beyond this, you can have the heads blueprinted and that alone will make probably the largest single gains as airflow will be much smoother, but it would also be the most costly solution as well. Think of your engine as a big air pump, how can you make the air flow as smoothly and efficiently as possible? Removing bottlenecks, helping the engine extract exhaust gasses (exhaust gas scavaging), producing smoother flow in and out, and having the right valve lift and timing are key factors. The biggest bottleneck for the bolt-on mods are the cats, swapping out the main cat for a high-flow unit is said to gain between 6 and 12hp depending with or without high-flow cat. Beyond that, once the bolt-ons are made, it's the heads, which need to be machined and cams upgraded. Essentially what Cobb would call a Stage 3 Power Package. The limit to the heads is said to be between 225 and 230hp at the crank with relative amounts of torque as well. Beyond this, the intake manifold needs a custom and costly solution. That is the last major component to be upgraded short of upping the compression ratio and changing the piston design. Perhaps that is a bit more than you wanted to know, but that's what I've learned and been told for a number of years now from several sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbi012 Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 Actually its not more than I wanted, great response man. Thanks. I will let you know as soon as I start on the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGreatOne Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Personally, I think you're expecting too much horspower from a few bolt-ons. Typically, a better intake and exhaust will net you maybe 3 to 10 hp at the most, and only at the higher RPMs. Consider also that a freer-flowing intake and exhaust will almost always bring more noise. The only way to make a definite 30 hp (minimal) increase easily is to go forced induction. Your best bet would be to trade in your naturally aspirated model and get a turbo model. However, if you check the aftermarket, there could be some low psi superchargers or turbos available to fit as a kit. Keep the boost low and you can still use the stock injectors and ECU. You will want an intercooler unless you drive around the polar circles during summer. I added an FM2 turbo (actually upgraded from a BEGI System IV.2 which I'd installed earlier) to my 1995 Miata. The turbo upgrades took my little econo sports car from Clark Kent to Superman. Where a stock 1.8 mid-1990's Miata may make 105 hp at the rear wheels on a dyno, the FM2 gets 220 hp or better - just a SMOOTH rush of power. Forced induction is clearly the way to go for more power. However, power is not inexpensive, and you have to pay for it! There are lots of more important things to spend that money on, unless you're really well-off or a die-hard power person. Think and plan. There are options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 The clear way to get past that 200hp mark is to get one of the cars with a turbo or H6 already packaged. Doing the aftermarket stuff on such a new car isn't so wise IMO, especially when the gear to do what you want comes from the factory. It's one thing if it's a 1990's car, but this is brand spanking new! Indeed bolt-ons will leave you a little short of 200hp, though torque may be at that figure, but you're spending a lot for a little when a model that may cost twice the value of those mods will make a nice bit more power have some extra nice features and better equipment to handle the power including brakes, larger wheels with better feedback from smaller tire sidewalls, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99Stock2.5i Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 The only mod I would waste money on is an ECU reflash and that one doesn't currently exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbi012 Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 I know people who reflash Mini ECU's but not yet for legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 You won't get much by reflashing the Subaru ECU, maybe 5hp I'm told. More if mods are there. The biggest thing that gives turbo cars the potential for more power is the extra variable of the turbo and it's ability of throwing more air in. ECU reflashes on N/A cars won't do much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrejda Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 If it can get rid of DBW delay I'd be happy. It was horrible on mk4 vw's and I remember thinking the same when I first got my wagon. I don't notice it as much but I'm not sure if it's adjusted itself of if I'm just used to it now. I'd be very happy with this car with some more throttle response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 That is in the ECU IIRC, at least I think I remember hearing ECUTek and possibly Cobb both altering the DBW characteristics. Remeber, this is also a newer car than your VW. Should get better with age and overall, Subaru systems are pretty darn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrito007 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 will all CAI's and hi flow cats from 2.5 rs's fit onto the outback 2.5i wagon? im just looking to help my friend bump up his hp's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 The high flow cat section should, but I can't tell you about the intake parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoyo Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 That is in the ECU IIRC, at least I think I remember hearing ECUTek and possibly Cobb both altering the DBW characteristics. Remeber, this is also a newer car than your VW. Should get better with age and overall, Subaru systems are pretty darn good. Hi Hi Newbie From Singapore Currently driving a Legacy NA 2.0Lit Bhp138 only Looking to add in a light TC to my ride wonder what need to be done or change to add in the TC? what is a DBW??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 DBW = Drive By Wire You're looking at adding torque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoyo Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 DBW = Drive By Wire You're looking at adding torque? I am looking at a faster pickup and yes better torque too. As a NA Legacy in Singapore tends to get bully by the Evo, Integra not friendly Rex and sometime a bloody Toyota as well. I jus got bully and Tailgate by the Black Camry in SGP=S'pore there would like to add a ligth turbo into my ride. Want to know the impact to my NA ride and what are to advantage and disadvantage to my engine? Btw, My ride is 2.0lit and BHP 138 engine is a SOHC ( Argh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 Well, converting to a turbo setup is often more costly to do it right than to trade-in for an actual turbo car. I was thinking you had the 2.0R, but with the 2.0i, tha makes it a bit more of a challenge. My best advice is to find a turbo model, new or used that has the get up and go you want, otherwise, you'll never be able to do enough to that car to make it what you want. Although getting a 2.0R and putting a higher-compression 2.5L short block in could garner some nice results. It already makes 190bhp and like 145ft-lb IIRC. Here's from the Subaru JDM site... http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/touringwagon/mechanism/07/imgs/p2.gif http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/touringwagon/mechanism/07/imgs/p3.gif Adding a larger short block would only help with the torque curve and with higher compression would still be fairly fuel efficient in comparison. You'd just need different pistons and rods in that short block to support the higher compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoyo Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Well, converting to a turbo setup is often more costly to do it right than to trade-in for an actual turbo car. I was thinking you had the 2.0R, but with the 2.0i, tha makes it a bit more of a challenge. My best advice is to find a turbo model, new or used that has the get up and go you want, otherwise, you'll never be able to do enough to that car to make it what you want. Although getting a 2.0R and putting a higher-compression 2.5L short block in could garner some nice results. It already makes 190bhp and like 145ft-lb IIRC. Here's from the Subaru JDM site... http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/touringwagon/mechanism/07/imgs/p2.gif http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/touringwagon/mechanism/07/imgs/p3.gif Adding a larger short block would only help with the torque curve and with higher compression would still be fairly fuel efficient in comparison. You'd just need different pistons and rods in that short block to support the higher compression. Ummm... Complicated stuff.. but guess I got what you mean. 1 Major issue in S'pore putting in a DOHC mayb something the Traffic Police would easily spotted it. And It is difficult to get ma 2.0R DOCH in S'pore. As U have explaint there is quite a lot of major changes to be done , Umm Dun know if this is worth while to do it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 To get any decent performance that you may be looking for, a turbo or H6 is almost necessary unfortunately. If you can afford one, excellent, unfortunately, not everyone can afford one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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