Picture_Shooter Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Hi, I am looking at getting a 2000 subaru legacygt w/ 5-spd w/ 110,000 miles. I don't know much about these sedans. Can anyone raise an eyebrow and let me know what to be aware of? Reliable? I used to own a 04 WRX, regret getting rid of it but I had to do what a dad has to do to feed the kids So any head-up or certain things to look at before the purchase? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picture_Shooter Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 Hi - I did some searching and it seems that maybe the HG are the major issue. If so, and if the HG needs to be replaced, about how much does it cost? Also I found out about the timing belt. What something like this cost to replace? Last, I hear these clutches on the Legacy's, if they were to go out, the repair is over $1000.00?? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdubs Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 The early 2.5's which were in the second gen legacy's, the forester, and the 2.5rs had the HG failure issue. SOA corrected that problem with the 3rd Gen's (00-04), so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I wouldn't say it would never happen, but it isn't so inevitable like in the previous years. You found out about the timing belt, meaning it has broken, or are you just curious how much it would be to replace it? If the timing belt has broken, chances are damage has been done internally to the valves, I wouldn't mess with it. Replacing, however, is a relatively cheap procedure. You should consider replacing/inspecting the cam seals and oil pump while you are back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picture_Shooter Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 Bduds - Thanks for your promt post. I called the sales rep and he told me they just got it on trade. The owner traded to a new 350Z. He also said the car is not 110K miles but has 125K miles. He said when I come out tomorrow I will just have to see it. He said since they are a new car lot dealership and they said they prefer to sell it b/c its really that well / looking taking care of car and not to auction it. I have really high hopes for it. Since I just sold our SUV today, I am going to need a car very quick and this Legacy came to mind and saw a great price for it (under $5000 take home) As for the T-belt, no its not broken, but I hope it has been replaced. If not, I just want to know what labor intent would be on that. Also is it true about the clutch, that if it needed to be replaced it cost over $1000.00?? Oh and thank goodness about the HG issue. I owned a 92 Legend (acura) and that was a nightmare ride to own due to Blown HG issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesb Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 The 96-99 Legacy GTs (with the phase 1 2.5L) are notorious for headgasket problems among others (stay away), But the phase II engines in the 2000+ Subarus still have some troubles with headgaskets. The phase II's like to have external headgasket leaks and are not as detrimental as the internal catastrophic headgasket failures found on the phase I. This also makes it easy to spot. Just remove the belly pan and look for leakage or seepage of coolant where the heads meet the block. Also check the coolant level and ensure the car has had warranty work WP-99 performed. (It is a coolant additive to prevent headgasket leaks, and must be added everytime coolant is replaced). On a positive side, being the car is a 5 speed and the previous owner bought a 350z, one can assume that the car was driven enthusiastically, which seems to be a good thing when it comes to the headgaskets. Most people believe the the headgasket failure is due to improper purging of the coolant after replacement. If all the air in the cooling system is not removed, trapped air car get stuck in the center of the engine block. If it does, it will boil and slightly warp the heads/headgasket, causing the leak. Enthusiastic driving (i.e high revs that get the waterpump spinning real good) can prevent this air from sitting trapped. Therefore if you buy this vehicle, I would suggest driving it hard from time to time. As for the timing belt, it should be replaced at 105K. At a dealer it will cost about $400-500 to replace it. And a clutch at a dealer will probably go for a $1000. The car is quite simple to work on if you have the time you can save your self some serious $$. Check out the naturally aspirated forum on nasioc.com for good info. Also FSM can be bought cheap on ebay. Good luck. They are great cars if you get past the HG thing. PS around 2003/2004 Subaru came out with an updated headgasket that is made of better material and have been proven very reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picture_Shooter Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 Dang that clutch for 1K. WOW!! How hard is the job to do (replace clutch)? I'm used to $400 replacement clutches Also thanks for the confidence. I am sure the HG issue is non exist on the one I am about to see (I pray) Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Here's the deal with the HGs. If the stock car has been maintained from day one, with 30K coolant changes AND coolant conditioner (using Subaru products), and regular 3500 mile (or <) oil changes - unless that car has been run hard and put away wet - I'd say your chances of a HG issue, especially on a Phase II SOHC engine like the one in the 2000 LGT that you're looking at, are negligible. A Phase I DOHC (96-99) is much more prone to the HG issue. That said, if the orginal owner can't produce the paperwork that these maintenance intervals were followed (with Subaru coolant/conditioner), then it's a crap shoot. The only way to verify whether this is an issue, is to take it to a Subaru tech and have them do a leak down on the engine. If the Phase II HGs are leaking they leak to the outside first so you can see any coolant on the head/block margins. Plan on $1500 if these need to be replaced. WRT the Timing Belt, again, if the original owner can produce the paper work that it was done at/about the 105K mark, no worries for another 80K miles. Otherwise, find out where the car was maintained and have them pull the VIN record so you can see what has been done. Plan on $350-$400 to replace the timing belt if it needs to be replaced. And, have them replace the timing belt tensioner while in there and check the oil pump to see if it needs to be resealed. This will add another $250.00 to the TB replacement cost. Not sure how the clutch engagement is, but if it doesn't go in smoothly, it judders/shakes while engaging, engages close to the floor, or is noisy prior to, during or after the clutch is engaged/disengaged, then the clutch needs to be replaced. Put the car in neutral and run the clutch in and out at idle to see if there's any drivetraining related (clutch/TOB) noise. Plan on $600-$800 with parts and labor for this if any of these symptoms are present. The 2000 LGT is a very comfortable, safe and fun car. It is quiet and a great road car for cruising. If you're used to quick acceleration, then you'll be disappointed as the 2.5L SOHC is not stunning in that performance category. But, it will give you good mileage, 25MPG or better around town and nearly 30MPG on the highway (on 87 Octane). And finally, insist on this dealership allowing you to take it to a Subaru tech for a top to bottom check. Invest the $80-$100 in getting this done for your own peace of mind. If they're unwilling to do this, then walk away. There's likely something to hide. Good luck and let us know how it goes. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picture_Shooter Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 Subietonic - Thank you for your reponse. One thing I never do when I purchase any vehicle is take it in to the dealer for inspection. If this Subie is from here, there is only one subie dealership and I know one of the sales person very well. I'm sure he'll take care of me. I think I will swoop up the car @ 10am. take off about 4hrs from work to take it to the shop and get it overlooked/inspected. The vehicle I previously had was a 95 Pathfinder. Then dumping over 1200.00 to get t-belts, water-pump, pulley, R&R , rear main seal and other crap it was just an on going service wreck on that truck. Then to find out that the 4x4 hubs bearings going out and #3 valve tap it was getting to expensive to fix. So I took my loss of 1200.00 and only got back what I paid for the POS. If I do get this subie - it will have to last me a long time. So you're right about getting it checked out. I plan to do that. Thank you so much. I hope that maybe there are some service records on this subie. It would be a lifesaver to know the history of that Legacy. Oh - I really don't care for speed. When I owned my wrx it was fun, but I really didn't care to go over 130mph (which I only did one time from Denver to Colorado Springs on I-25). Since then I had this slow poke, burning oil pathfinder. lol I'll let you know the results of the inspection. Thanks all @ Legacy GT for all this information. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRat Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I have a 2000 LGT 5eat and just sold it to my oldest with 172k on it. I had a pie sliced valve, which is one of the not so common issues on this series. HG's are still an issue, but not like on the phase 1's (mine were replaced at 101k when the valves were done along with the timing belt. It's over 180k now and it still doesn't burn a drop of oil. Keep an eye on the coolant level and you should be fine. Just don't race any WRX's and think you'll walk away with your dignity. BTW, the valve service with timing belt was about $1800....still less expensive than the extended warranty! High flow exhaust should help you alot along with a COA....raced one that had those mod's and it stomped me hard enough to make me ask if that was all he did....he lifted the hood and proved it. MPG's around 24-27 depending on the tires. BFGoodrich traction T/A dropped the mileage pretty low (24 - 25) while my kid now says the Eagle's (F1's I think) gave him back 1-2MPG's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picture_Shooter Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 All - Let me just say this; I walked into the dealership today @ noon. Just expected a old stock clean Legacy. Well it was not the case. 1st thing 1st; BODY - WOW!! Like new. Slick as it could be and looks prestine! 2nd - Open all doors and close, checked interior, inspected all power accessories. Notice is had a sweet KENWOOD big face cd player. Not just that. Full Rockford Fosgate speakers in the doors. Pushing it in the trunk was a Kenwood 2-, 3-, 4-channel amp (70watts*4 ). For the bass it had an Infinity Basslink 10". Receipt shown all was installed by BestBuy except for the Basslink. 3rd - Started her up. Sounded like my wrx, then rev'd in the parking lot. I heard a droneage noise. Pop the hood. It has an COBB cold air intake. Engine was super filthy. Yuck compared to the rest of the ride. So now for the test drive. WOW! Why did I not find this car sooner? I mean its not super fast but it fits me well for what I am looking for and my family of 4. I am really impressed w/ the handling, comfort and interior design of it. Way better then my 04 wrx seats of course not as fast but I am not in it for speed, but do miss the AWD. As some of you said to take it to my local Subaru, well it could not be done . For one, Subaru dealership was booked till Wednesday. The Legacy had another buyer inline. So it was kind of any impulse buy. So I did buy it (more details below) after taking it home, cleaning up the motor w/ GUNK and getting the jack under the car and lifting it up. I have to say that I am in luck! No leaks indicated and I put over 100miles on it today. I left the dealer lot w/ 3/4 tank of gas. With little over 100 miles, the gas notch barely moved. Boy it looks like I really lucked out. As for working under the hood, it does not look no where near the challenge to replace things. It looks a lot like my wrx motor, if not the same, minus the turbo not on the Legacy, which make it more easier access to motor to work on. Overall I am very pleased w/ the purchase and excited to get back on the road to work tomorrow. Here are some pictures that I took of it 2night. The tires are like new and the belts look fresh and been replaced from OEM for sure! The bolts covering the T-belt looks like they were tampered with, so I am going to assume that the T-belt task was done. The LGT does not miss and beat and noting I could find wrong with it. The only thing I plan to do if its an easy task is remove the Infinity Basslink sub and put in my Single 12" RE Sub in which has a custom and push it w/ my US AMP. It looks like the power wire to the Kenwood amp is a little small to feed two high powered amps w/ a fuse block. The clutch is perfect and felt or hear any noises. The tires on it are miss match. front are different brand then the rears. LOL!! Both brand tires are like new. The front tires are KUMHO ECSTA AST (215-45-r17) on the rear they are Bridgestone Potenza RE92 (215-45-zr17). lol One thing I notice it was missing was a skid plate. Nothing below it to protect the oil pan ect. How much does one of these cost? As for leaks, I found nothing and cooling temp was perfect. Coolant level was normal so looks to be no loss Well enough of my mumble jumbo. Here are some pics to do some justice. Thanks all once again. Glad to be once again a subie owner! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/Subaru%202000%20Legact%20GT/P1030358.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/Subaru%202000%20Legact%20GT/P1030360.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/Subaru%202000%20Legact%20GT/P1030361.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/Subaru%202000%20Legact%20GT/P1030345.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/Subaru%202000%20Legact%20GT/P1030352.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/Subaru%202000%20Legact%20GT/P1030356.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/Subaru%202000%20Legact%20GT/P1030346.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picture_Shooter Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 OH... also in the picture below, look at the cable that is disconnected above the subwoofer. Could anyone here tell me what this connection does? It was disconnected and I did not want to mess w/ it prior to asking what it could be for. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/Subaru%202000%20Legact%20GT/P1030346.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Looks more clean in the pics than your described. Like the 4th Gen LGT wheels, and the color is the only one to have - IMHO... Very Nice - glad it worked out for you. First things first though - go straight to a tire dealership and get those mis-matched tires off the car. One of the worst things you can do to your AWD is run different tires front-to-rear and/or side-to-side. Just wrecks havoc with the center diff and the clutch due to the rotational differences. This is from the Subaru website: "For safe vehicle operation, SUBARU recommends replacing all four tires at the same time. WARNING: All four tires must be the same in terms of manufacturer, brand (tread pattern), construction, degree of wear, speed symbol, load index and size. Mixing tires of different types, sizes or degrees of wear can result in damage to the vehicle's power train. Use of different types or sizes of tires can also dangerously reduce controllability and braking performance and can lead to an accident. Use only radial tires. Do not use radial tires together with belted bias tires and/or bias-ply tires. Doing so can dangerously reduce controllability which can result in an accident." Link here: http://www.subaru.com/owners/carcaretips/index.jsp?pageid=tire&navid=TIRED_TIRES. Other than that, do get it in to the Sube tech as soon as possible so that if anything is amiss, you can go back to where you bought it for resolution. Enjoy your ride and welcome back to the Subaru family again. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picture_Shooter Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 Subietonic- Oh yea. for sure about the tires. Its just so funny to see some people half @$$ things like this. So which two tires should I go with the Potenza's or Ecsta? I am sure Bridgestone would be the better choice, whats your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picture_Shooter Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 Looking at tires on Tirerack.com , it shows the OEM size tires that suppose to be on the Legacy GT are : 17" 205/50-17 I have on the rims right now the 215-45-17. I'm sure it will do no harm though. BTW ... here was my old 04 wrx http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/Cars/IMG_1965.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Looking at tires on Tirerack.com , it shows the OEM size tires that suppose to be on the Legacy GT are : 17" 205/50-17 I have on the rims right now the 215-45-17. I'm sure it will do no harm though. The tire size for a 2000 LGT should be 205/55-16," but since you're running 17" 2005+ LGT rims, then, the appropriate size would be 205/50-17". Given that you're really limited as far as availability in that size, I'd recommend 215/45-17". For a summer tire, I really like the Bridgestone RE750s. Good tire, good handling, reasonably priced. But if you want all seasons (or winter tires), then you'll want to do a search on the site for other preferences, as I run the Michelin PS ASes (225/45-17") and they are pricey. But I'm on my second set after 30K+ miles on my first set so I really like them. Just make sure you put on a fresh set of four new tires. Don't try to add two more of either set to make a whole set unless the two sets currently on it are brand new (literally). Even slightly worn tires, matched with new tires of the exact same mfgr, type, and size, causes rotational differences and binding in the drivetrain. It's a circumferential thing. Good luck with your car and let us know how it goes. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRat Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Also, if you're not getting them from Tirerack.com or your Subie dealer, bring a way to check the circumference of the tires when inflated (piece of rope and a tape measure usually works). I bought 4 BFGoodrich Traction T/A's from a tire place and they were 1/2" different new from the manufacturer. Almost destroyed my center diff....if you smell any clutch / brake pad smell...take it to the dealer immediately! Z rated tires will also improve the handling substantially. Factory originals came with H rated, so the suspension is a little stiffer to compensate. My old '00 has Z's on it now and I can't believe how well it handles (little body roll, but still fun without being punishingly hard). One word of advice, be careful of the AWD system on that car. It is still great, but it allows for some front wheel slip before fully engaging the center diff (you'll see references to the "clunk" noise it makes when it hooks up) which can make for some white knuckle moments, but on the MT I see very few complaints. Nice looking ride....Dad! You'll still find it rides very comfortably at 100+....or so I'm told ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picture_Shooter Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Tape measure it to be sure. Do a circumferential meaurement as that is what is most important. If the Kumhos, at proper inflation pressures, are more that 1/4" different between the 3K tires and the new, you'll have bind issues in the AWD. The reason I say tape measure it is that even though the tread "depth" may be the same, the circumference, tire-to-tire may very well be different. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picture_Shooter Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Just make sure you put on a fresh set of four new tires. Don't try to add two more of either set to make a whole set unless the two sets currently on it are brand new (literally). Even slightly worn tires, matched with new tires of the exact same mfgr, type, and size, causes rotational differences and binding in the drivetrain. It's a circumferential thing. While browsing at them yesterday evening, I notice the last owner got those Bridgestone Potenza (2 on rear) tires on 11-8-06 and the LGT had 108K miles. Then on 11-21-07 they got the KUMHO tires (2 on front) w/ 125K miles. Which right now the LGT has little over 128K miles. So the original owner from Nov 08 - Current only drove about 3K miles on them. I think I will just head out to Discount Tire and get two more of the Kumho tires to replace the rear which has the Bridgestone Potenza right now. I today was whipping around a U-Turn under the bridge and was going about 45mph to see how it would handel and I felt the rear slide some. So I think the replacing the Bridgestone w/ the Kumho would be ideal anyways (they seem to be over priced rubbers anyways). Gosh I love the AWD!! Glad to be back. But I think I'll be fine to drive on two newer Kumho tires since the other ones only have about 3K on them and they look new - But I'll have DT size the thread wear on the Kumho's that are on to see what the tire tech says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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