Love the new Legacy, BUT.....

[AMT4SWA]

Remember the new Legacy GT is a small seed that Subaru is planting in our markets vast field. I have a STRONG feeling this small seed will yield an AMAZING market crop. Subaru will be very well served by the sales of the new Legacy GT, which I feel will finally bring Subaru into the big leagues from a product perception standpoint here in the US. When you have previous Lexus, BMW, Volvo, and Audi customers out buying the new Legacy, you are doing something very very right! :lol: Time will tell! 8)

[SUBE555]

I think I remember Paul saying one time (not on here), in Japan, the Legacy is the bar others in it's class shoot for. That has to say something about the platform. If people can get past their silly perceptions and just get in and drive it, I think they'll be sold. By far the hardest part is to get people into the dealerships, then sit in the car, then test drive it. An H6 model will definitely help though for those who want those 250 ponies, but not with a turbo, and not in an Outback. The price points between an OB XT Ltd and an LL Bean 3.0R (both Autos) seem relatively close with the H6 a couple hundred more. I think with prices starting a couple hundred more than the Legacy GT models, they have potential to move a decent amount of these to American buyers as many are just not up to the ideas of turbos and reliability as well as the more is better theory. Maybe next MY. ;)

[kage]

Let's all keep in mind that the bread and butter will be the Legacy 2.5i, not the GT. The 2.5i Limited fills the niche the old GT did: nice handling but not so much power. The new GT is in an entirely different class. It will be a performance bargain in the same way the WRX was at its introduction, but even moreso because it does have a nice dollop of luxury without giving up its performance focus. Kudos to Subaru for being determined to bring a driver's car to market, and not just another luxo-coffin.

[racerdave]

[quote name='gtguy'] Subaru will be hoping for some crossover buyers, but I just don't know if that will ultimately happen, in the case of the luxo-marques, such as BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. If you want a BMW, you want a BMW. Period. You're shopping for the roundel. Kevin[/quote] Kev, I don't totally disagree with that statement, but I do take issue with it in my case. The only 2 cars left on my list are the 325iT and the Legacy GT wagon. I wasn't initially shopping for a wagon, but it's turned out that way. I shopped the IS300, G35, RX-8 and the other two mentioned. Initially, I wanted a RWD sports sedan. All the others had their flaws, but the BMW stood out to me... not because of the Roundel. Period. ;) Rather, it stood out because of the harmony of the chassis/handling with all the other controls. The steering's awesome and the car simply feels like it knows what to do when the road turns. It's idea of steering feel and cornering acumen strike me as exactly the way I'd want a car to feel. Only the RX-8 had a similarly balanced, harmonious feel... it was just too small. If I was single and had no kids or dogs, I'd be in an RX-8. The Legacy is going to have to stink for it to lose. One, it's 4-wheel drive versus 1-wheel drive (no LSD in the 325iT... and the 325xiT is effectively only 2-wheel drive, plus its heavier and you can't get the SP suspension on it), it has a boat-load more power, likely more room (in cargo area for sure), and is significantly less expensive. In short, the Leg GT is in the driver's seat, but the BMW is on my list, but not because of the Roundel. So if the Legacy seduces me as I suspect it will, then Subaru will have done what it set out to do and took a potential BMW customer and turned him into a Subaru customer. --Dave

[gtguy]

Oh, Dave, I don't think that everybody shops prestige, but enough people do, unfortunately, where I think that the Legacy is going to have a hard time. Subaru still isn't a "prestige" marque, even though we all know how fabulous it is. Sadly, for every one person who buys a BMW for the excellent driving experience, there are three or four people who don't care a whit about the driving experience, drivers I characterize as BMW meaning "brain might work." :lol: Without question, BMWs are excellent to drive, which explains the continuing popularity of the 3-series cars in particular, even in light of cheaper, better-performing alternatives. But for that shopper who is shopping a marque, who wakes up one day and says "I'm ready for my BMW," they aren't going to go anywhere near a Subaru dealer. They might even have to settle for a 318 rather than a 325 or 330, but a less-prestigious marque isn't going to enter their worldview. You're right, I should have been clearer in the statement that you excerpted from my post. There are people who actually think about what they choose, something we are all aware of, rather than the seeming generalization that can be construed from my post, which is that everybody who shops those marques is simply prestige-hunting, which isn't the case. And to think, in my daily work I always caution writers against never presuming that the reader knows what you mean, unless you say it. :lol: Kevin

[racerdave]

Yeah, I've been known to do that myself, so don't feel bad. :D

[gtguy]

[quote name='SUBE555']If people can get past their silly perceptions and just get in and drive it, I think they'll be sold. By far the hardest part is to get people into the dealerships, then sit in the car, then test drive it.[/quote] True, true. I had to almost beg a friend who was looking for something slightly larger than their Passat wagon, to quit messing about with CRVs and RAV4s, and go test-drive the Forester. They did, fell in love, and are now happy Subaru owners. He was surprised by the fit, finish and quality of the Forester, and Subarus in general. If Subaru does its marketing work right... Does anyone remember the "It IS a Subaru" advertising campaign? Kevin

[racerdave]

No, I don't remember that campaign. Which car were they pushing? (although I have to say I'm partial to the Lance commercials. :D )

[PPower]

Any discussion of what other amenities one may wish were added really all get back to the issue of Subaru wanting to move to a more premium brand. Opinions range from thinking it useless, a mockery of what Subaru has always been in the past, not moving fast enough, or whatever. Subaru of America is on a path of improvement, and I don't think that any of us really know what their plan is or at what step they are on. (Maybe they don't either.) I at times want to move the process along faster and want SoA to offer the bells and whistles of the other higher end cars NOW. This may not be the best method as the SVX was a situation of moving too upscale too fast. It is a process that they are on, and the product mix is just one part of the equation. You also have the advertising (HUGE topic alone) and the entire dealership experience. With more attractive (but not overly upscale) models, more people will undoubtedly notice Subaru more and result in more buyers. They need more volume (and more importantly, profits) for the dealers to be able to justify building Subaru specific showrooms. As for the increase in profits, discounts also play a factor in how premium a brand is perceived. Premium cars sell from MSRP down whereas common cars sell from invoice on up. As an employee of an Acura dealership, the best deal I can get is $500 over invoice! Why sole-Subaru showrooms? My local dealer selling Subaru, Isuzu, Kia, and Suzuki all together may not be the norm, but is a good example of tarnished brand reputation locally through brand associations. It would be interesting to see the percentage of sole-Subaru dealerships in the US and what their volume is compared to the shared-brand dealers. Somehow, I think I know the general outcome. The only way a shared-brand situation can work well is if they are perceived of similar quality yet different enough target audiences. Here we have a place where the same sales manager is over Infiniti/Volvo- similar product but definitely different "flavors" to differentiate them. Hummer is a good example to look at in regards to showrooms if nothing else. Hummer is mandating that dealers have Hummer specific dealerships finished within the next year or they will not receive the H3 or at least a reduced allocation. Why? Because they know that Hummer needs to be set apart and keep a consistent identity. Maybe SoA is still searching. I dunno. I'm guessing that Subaru put some pressure on dealers to add the stacked stone pillar, and maybe that was a requirement for the "steller performer dealer certification". I just wish it were more. SoA is in a somewhat difficult brand management delima as far as identity. The tricky situation is this split between outdoors oriented customers and now the addition of the driving/performance side. Many people are fans of both attributes, but Subaru still has some work at reshaping their image. I have long felt like Subaru of America needs to looks towards Subaru of Australia to see what they've done right. Having turbo cars over the years helped them out greatly, and it seems that the outdoorsy image is the add-on more than in the US where it seems that now the performance side is the addition. This is all meant to just show what kind of path that Subaru is currently dealing with to show that there isn't a simple fix. It doesn't matter how things were run for the last 15 years. This situation is what it is, and Subaru has to just take it from here and continue taking positive steps.

[gtguy]

Good points, PPower. I usually see Subaru teamed with Nissan or Isuzu up in these parts. I think that Subaru isn't really large enough to have its own dedicated dealerships is some of the problem, unfortunately, unless they just wanted to throw some money behind it and make it happen. But there is indeed that "downmarket by association" that you mention. The marketing of this Legacy is going to be interesting to watch, and extremely important for the success of the car. I think Subaru has it right in defining "premium" as an excellent mix of performance, amenities and value. They know that they can't and shouldn't play in the pure "premium," as defined by luxury, market. I think the difference with Subaru Australia vs Subaru USA is origins. Here, Subarus started life as the outdoorsy car, driven by the granola-eating, Birkenstocked crowd. There, with turbo WRXes and some access to the more performance-oriented Subarus, not to mention the World Rally knowledge, Subaru had a performance profile that they have only just acquired here. Subaru, I think, hopes they can have both worlds: the outdoorsy types with the Outbacks and TSes, and the performance types with the WRXes and Legacy turbos. They should be able to, provided they market the cars right. My guess is that Subaru plans, as with the WRX, to add things as the Legacy ages, to keep it fresh. Nav coming later in the first model year is a good example. I suspect that other things, like HIDs, etc, will get added to the car as well, but you will probably also see some price creep. They can't continue to sell the Legacy at those first-year prices, it seems to me, and make money. Larger carmakers rely on volume to sell cars at a close to the bone price, a luxury Subaru doesn't have, unless it was a lot cheaper to develop the new car than any of us realize. I suspect that the first-year cars are priced to move, so to speak. The other interesting thing will be to see if Subaru relies upon a spokesperson for the car. They always have. Judge Reinhold (anyone remember those Legacy ads?), Paul Hogan, Martina Navratilova, Lance Armstrong. I think that is almost saying "Hey, you wouldn't take this car seriously unless we had somebody famous telling you how good it is." But you don't see marques such as BMW, Acura or Mercedes, or even Nissan or Honda with brand spokespeople. This is all going to be very interesting. Kevin

[coolbluelb]

[quote name='gtguy'] Larger carmakers rely on volume to sell cars at a close to the bone price, a luxury Subaru doesn't have, unless it was a lot cheaper to develop the new car than any of us realize. I suspect that the first-year cars are priced to move, so to speak. Kevin[/quote] Don't I recall earlier discussion regarding how the USDM Legacy was a 'decontented' version of the JDM model, for roughly the same price. I am not trying to start a new debate on the topic, only bring up that Subaru's margins may not be as tight as we think.

[gtguy]

[quote name='coolbluelb'][quote name='gtguy'] Larger carmakers rely on volume to sell cars at a close to the bone price, a luxury Subaru doesn't have, unless it was a lot cheaper to develop the new car than any of us realize. I suspect that the first-year cars are priced to move, so to speak. Kevin[/quote] Don't I recall earlier discussion regarding how the USDM Legacy was a 'decontented' version of the JDM model, for roughly the same price. I am not trying to start a new debate on the topic, only bring up that Subaru's margins may not be as tight as we think.[/quote] Interesting point, Coolblue. I also wonder if the strength of the yen as it relates to JDM cars, vs the weakness of the dollar, has something to do with it. I think the only things the JDM has, aside from the Subaru Customize Studio goodies, are the power folding rear seats on the wagon, HIDs and nav, and the last is coming later in the first model year. I also wonder if the different block makes up some of the cost structure difference. I imagine the 2.0 setups aren't as spendy, not being as new, as the 2.5s. Kevin

[GaryS]

[quote name='gtguy'] Does anyone remember the "It IS a Subaru" advertising campaign? Kevin[/quote] [little bit OT] No, but I do remember a Chevy ad with a picture of the Subaru Forester with Chevy's then current slogan, 'I am Chevrolet!!' plastered underneath. IIRC, it was an ad for India where Subes were not yet sold. It was pretty funny... [/OT] -Gary

[dimil]

[quote name='gtguy'] The other interesting thing will be to see if Subaru relies upon a spokesperson for the car. They always have. Judge Reinhold (anyone remember those Legacy ads?), Paul Hogan, Martina Navratilova, Lance Armstrong. I think that is almost saying "Hey, you wouldn't take this car seriously unless we had somebody famous telling you how good it is." But you don't see marques such as BMW, Acura or Mercedes, or even Nissan or Honda with brand spokespeople. [/quote] The way I see that if Subaru needs to have someone to talk about performance of new models that could be Peter Solberg. He is a celebrity, his name already tied up with Subaru, promoting WRC will also work favorable for Subaru, and his name already known to many people that can be potential Subaru buyers. Also I can see add campain to shift from pushing cars from the lots idea (AWD drive away) to get people in for test drive without actually pushing them to buy. People that can feel the difference will be back to check it out when they ready for next car.

[SUBE555]

I'd definitely rather see Petter on the commercials. I'm sure most people wouldn't catch on though. I do like his enthusiasm however. :) It's all about presentation and getting people to the dealerships. I think thus far the media has done a better job than their marketing at getting people into dealerships. I still think they need something with the passion of the JDM video clips that were floating aroudn shortly after the time of the new Leg release aroudn last year. Those had passion and spirit. The current stuff makes me want to just walk out of the room every time I see it.

[PPower]

Petter is the only worthy spokesperson, but I HATE the use of a spokesperson. Actually, Subaru could have ads that boosted the image and knowledge of WRC, Petter (as reigning champion!), and the association to the road cars. In advertising, there is a process of the types of ads needed when there is a new company or product line. This broad educational type ad could work well, but I don't think it would serve Subaru well for their intentions to become more premium. Then again, you can't fool people with a super classy ad and then sell them next to shite. In my mind, SoA needs to approach the situation as if they are a completely new company to the US. Problem is that all of the employees have been working there since the BRAT and have contributed to its current state- below Subaru's true potential. All advertising has to be congruent. The classy ads for the Legacy are great, and I hope they or something like them are used. The big BUT is that classy ads also have to be used for the WRX/Impreza line and Forester. Consistency will be key. I above ranted about the outdoors vs. performance personalities. This disharmony shows in some dealerships as well. Look at ones with the crisp white and blue and then a natural stacked stone pillar. Huh? They don't go together. Subaru of Dallas's structure looks the best I've seen entirely in the warm colors. It emphasizes the outdoors but performance can fit in with it. I just wish it were the other way around. Anyway, gotta go to my main job, so I'll rant later.

[gtguy]

I'm with PPower...I hate spokespeople. A successful ad campaign will make you want the car, instead of who is telling you that the car is cool. When you see a BMW ad, or Saab, or Volvo, or whatever, they always tell you about the car, and show the car doing cool stuff. The early WRX commercials did the same thing, showing the car drifting through the mud. Awesome stuff. The Legacy commercials will have to show that the car has gotten much better, by showing precisely that, making the car what you need/desire. :lol: Kevin

[PPower]

Ditto, Kevin. I would go further than what you stated, and I think you will agree. A successful ad campaign will make you want the brand. Since all commercials for the different cars should be similar, the same emotions should be able to be felt about the entire lineup. It isn't good to have an M3 enthusiast, but a BMW enthusiast can last a lifetime and grow into various models as the enthusiast's needs change. Passion is what sells cars more than any other thing. Price and functionality get a list of options, but it is ultimately the one that invokes passion that gets the bill even if a bit extra has to be paid for it. In other words, fulfilling the "need" requirements makes the car an option. Causing passion or "desire" for the car will get people to be enthused about Subaru and not buy based on price. Too often dealers have had to resort to sweet deals to move the cars which is a shame as that ultimately cheapens the image of the brand when there are constant big sales and rebates. It screams to the public that you obviously have more supply than demand.

[agctr]

With any new car, you will always have the knockers, a few years after it is out, well it has a cult following. This edition will have a huge cult following. For the whingers out there complaining about this and that, well it u feel that bad about it, dont buy it SIMPLE. If you dont like this and that, well speck it out, pay the bucks to bring it up to what you what. Gee, if you complaint is, it doesnt have HID, buy them. For a lousy $US 300 u can have them. There is enough aftermarket parts out there at the moment to personalise your ride. Dont get me wrong, Honda have a fantastic offering, but up against a AWD 2.5 6MT Twin Scroll Turbo and ....., hmm not sure if would be up to the challenge Integra TypeR and S2000 included.

[kage]

We don't get a 6MT or twin scroll, but your point is still valid.

[Sub-attraction]

[quote name='gtguy']The Legacy commercials will have to show that the car has gotten much better, by showing precisely that, making the car what you need/desire. :lol: Kevin[/quote] I've heard that the first commercials are going to be a spoof of "Ferris Buellers Day Off". When he opens the garage door, rather than finding a Classic red Ferrari you see a Leg GT instead...

[gtguy]

[quote name='Sub-attraction'][quote name='gtguy']The Legacy commercials will have to show that the car has gotten much better, by showing precisely that, making the car what you need/desire. :lol: Kevin[/quote] I've heard that the first commercials are going to be a spoof of "Ferris Buellers Day Off". When he opens the garage door, rather than finding a Classic red Ferrari you see a Leg GT instead...[/quote] That would be a good sign...that they're selling the car instead of the person pitching the car, even though Lance Armstrong will still be part of the new ad campaign. We can, however, hope that he will pitch the other models, while the Legacy does its own thing. Subaru is throwing more money than they ever have at an ad campaign...this Legacy has to make it for them, and here's hoping that it does. Kevin

[agctr]

In Oz, there havent been too many TV ad's. Most of the ads on TV are on the whole range with a Liberty/Legacy slant. There have been a lot of ads in the local car magazines and in the Saturday paper, not sure why that is, but the message must be getting thru as there are a few out on the road already. Not many GT's though.