Bass on a Budget

[TJF37]

I've noticed that my car has NO bass. Now Im not looking for something to take my breath away, or be overwhelming. I'd just like some clarity. I was curious as to what would be a good set up to install. 1 10"? 2? what have you guys found to be a good balance of bass, mids, and highs?

[outback07]

hmmm for the perfect amount of bass would be a 1 10" Alpine Type R

also you could also upgrade your interior speakers but if your willing to do that I would change the whole system. Rite Now I m running 2 12" Alpine Type R's and my whole block complains.

[TJF37]

okay, if anyone can help me with what they think of this set up... i was going to go with 1 10" but i think 2 would be better, as long as I dont set the bass high (except for those times of need! haha

 

I found 2 JBL GTO1004d Subwoofers and a Soundstream XTA720 amp... all for about 300 shipped

 

my question is how many channels would I want with the amp?

also, do i want a dual 4 ohm voice coils? dual 8 ohm? single 2, 4, 8 ohm?

 

none of it really makes sense to me, so all help is appreciated...

[outback07]

if your going to have 2 subs you would have to have a 2 channel amp thats what i would perfer

[whobaru]

If the JBLs are single 4 ohm voicoil subs, you want a monoblock amp to run the circuit at the ideal 2 ohms of resistance (good sound, good power, safe). If you want bass on a budget, get one 10" single 4 ohm voicecoil sub with an inexpensive 2 channel amp. When you "bridge" a two channel amp it cuts the ohm load of the sub in half, making your 4 ohm sub run at the ideal 2 ohms. Hope this helps, let me know if ne more questions...I used to install for years.

[TJF37]

the JBL's are dual 4 ohm subs... so would you recommend just one 2 channel amp? and im not sure on how many watts. is 600 watts going to give a lot of bass, not alot of bass or give it a good sound?

[whobaru]

With two dual-4 ohm voicecoil subs you want to buy a monoblock that is either powerful enough to run decent output at 4 ohms, or is stable enough to handle running at 1 ohm.

 

Here's a monoblock running at 4 ohms:

http://www.jbl.com/car/product_support/SubwooferWiring/sub_wiring_diagram.aspx?type=2-4-4

 

Here's a monoblock running 1 ohm (top right):

http://www.audiobahn.com/Audiobahn06/images/tech/wiring/parallel_parallel_dual_4.pdf

 

Here's both:

http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/woofer_configurations.asp?Q=2&I=42

 

 

Or you can run a 2 channel amp to get the ideal 2 ohms, but you run 2 ohm "stereo" (each channel is it's own independent 2 ohm circuit). This may be your best bet if you want inexpensive:

http://www.crutchfield.com/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_wiring.html?imageID=2DVC%5F4%2Dohm%5F2ch

[TJF37]

okay, i think that actually makes sense to me... but it will make more sense when im more awake and tenative! thanks, i think that answered my question for the most part.... so would you say my set up I found is good? bad? inbetween? if not good, any recommendations?

[whobaru]

Not the best approach...actually, one of the worst IMHO.

 

Next time keep it simple like I do.

 

1 single 4 ohm sub with a 2 channel amp "bridged" = 2 ohms

2 single 4 ohm subs with a monoblock amp = 2 ohms

1 dual 4 ohm sub with a monoblock amp = 2 ohms

 

2 ohms should usually be your goal for power and safety.

[TJF37]

much clearer for my mentally exhausted self.... well, now i know to look at a different route! haha thanks!

[whobaru]

[D_J]

hmmm for the perfect amount of bass would be a 1 10" Alpine Type R

also you could also upgrade your interior speakers but if your willing to do that I would change the whole system. Rite Now I m running 2 12" Alpine Type R's and my whole block complains.

 

Yes I had Alpine Type R's in my last car, WITHOUT upgrading the rest of the system...of course with marginal results.

 

I would prefer to keep the stock head unit.

 

What about the Subaru Subwoofer/Amplifier add-on for $229? Any good?

 

Also was concerned about too much drain on the electrical system (alternator, etc) so I would like to get a slimmed down set-up.

 

Any recommendations for a good installer service? Tried Best Buy and it was pretty bad.

[whobaru]

 

1.)Yes I had Alpine Type R's in my last car, WITHOUT upgrading the rest of the system...of course with marginal results.

 

2.) What about the Subaru Subwoofer/Amplifier add-on for $229? Any good?

 

3.) Also was concerned about too much drain on the electrical system (alternator, etc) so I would like to get a slimmed down set-up.

 

4.)Any recommendations for a good installer service? Tried Best Buy and it was pretty bad.

 

1.)Alpine TypeRs ftl!

2.) Suby sub ftl!

3.) Capacitor ftw!

4.)BB mobile install ftl!

.....Circuit City ftw!

[whobaru]

This is my setup (note the capacitor):

 

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x312/kagenmateer/goodangle.jpg

 

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x312/kagenmateer/IMG_3038.jpg

[D_J]

Sweet...I like how you have the cables neatly tucked away with minimal clutter.

 

I'm like the original poster...trying to do an upgrade on a budget.

 

Yes I heard about capacitor's. Was somewhat skeptical on how well they worked, but as long as you get as u get a top-quality unit (Monster?) should be okay.

 

What about keeping the stock Subie head unit? I heard sometimes the stock head units aren't suitable due to background noise. Minimum size amp would be 250?

 

I want to try to get an upgrade done for less than $1K if possible. Since I have the wagon have plenty of room in the back for larger speakers and mounts.

 

If u lived in my neck of the woods...I'd pay you to install it all.

[whobaru]

There is definitely a difference between a Monster capacitor and off-brands (as measured by capacitance), so def get Monster or something you KNOW is comparable. Mine (pictured above) is a "1 farad"...don't waste your time with anything smaller. It takes the load off the car's electrical system and gives the amp the power it needs when it needs it. In a full-size vehicle they're not necessary, but in a four-banger with a smaller alternator, they are a good idea. As soon as my stock battery wears out I'll be getting an Optima Yellowtop deep-cycle battery.

 

My amp is a very good brand that has a respectable "high to low converter" built into it. The RCAs in the picture are your average pair of basic monster cable RCAs (specifically they are "Microlinks"), and I chopped the RCA connectors off the other end of the cable in order to tap them into the factory speaker wire like so:

 

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x312/kagenmateer/IMG_2945.jpg

 

What I'm getting at is that if your high-to-low converter is good enough, background noise is not an issue, especially if your only running a speaker (sub) in the trunk.

 

Minimum amp size is about 200W RMS for a decent sub setup.

 

You can easily get a bass setup installed for under $1K, see your local Circuit City...not Best Buy!

 

Just because you have the space for larger speakers, I wouldn't necessarily recommend multiple/larger woofers. Money is better spent on upgrading the quality of your single 10" or 12" woofer, or upgrading the amp to a cleaner one. I have an Infinity "Perfect" 10" sub and really like it. It outperforms the 12" Kicker I had before (recently seized).

 

I'd help you and others install too, if I weren't in freaking Idaho. I'm actually from Santa Cruz and want to move back. I've been considering the San Diego area too.

 

If you do have a shop install it for you, I would make your initial trip to the shop a stop-in where you casually ask who the senior installer is. Then when you go back to buy from them request that he be your installer and be willing to wait for him to be available. There's nothing worse than having a noob work on your car!

[D_J]

Sound advice! Yes I think I got the rookie at Best Buy, did a horrible job. Had to get it redone 2 times. I hear they pay crap wages, so no surprise.

 

What do you think about giving the senior installer a $20 tip in advance?

 

I thought that might be a good incentive to commit to making an appointment and maybe spending a little more time on the install.

[D_J]

Update:

 

Got a quote from Al & Ed's for $815 installed including tax.

 

Since I have the wagon they can custom fit Alpine Type S 6 x 9's in the cargo area. The 6 x 9's have strong bass, so I can live without the Subwoofer. Going with Type S 2 piece in the front (seperate tweeter). Ditching the 2 rear door speakers to substitute the 6 x 9's.

 

Alpine amp for $200 they told me has built-in capacitor. Since no Subwoofer maybe it will fly without a dedicated capacitor???

 

The quality of Al & Ed's seemed good...and it was nice to see them rigging up a brand new 2008 Legacy GT Bronze sedan while I was there.

[whobaru]

If you give a tip in advance, make sure it's where nobody else can see it. Installers are generally not allowed to accept tips, but most will if you insist and it WILL contribute to a better quality installation.

 

On the 6X9 thing...you will get more MID bass, and still completely miss the lower frequencies you would get from deep bass guitar and hip hop. If you listen to mostly rock and roll, a couple good 6X9s like the type S will def increase your overall sound quality. However, I mentioned earlier that feedback/interference is not really a concern with subwoofers. 6X9s being speakers that play higher frequencies (they have a tweeter) like the high pitch wine of interference, procede cautiously. I wouldn't recommend it with a stock stereo. I've heard systems that turned out okay, but most have been marginal at best.

 

Furthermore, I was/am actually quite impressed with the mid-range bass capabilities of our system, as well as it's ability to control low, mid, and high frequencies individually. A good system tune is as important as a good ECU tune. If a good tuner knows how to balance your stock system in combination with a good sub, you will get plenty of midrange bass (like you would from a couple 6X9s), while picking up the deep stuff ONLY a subwoofer can play.

 

Anyhoo, the 6X9s would give you some improvement in volume and midbass, but I guess what I'm saying is I believe your money can be better spent...especially since if you end up with feedback in the system (high pitch wine that's frickin annoying and embarrassing), you'll be pissed. You also don't want to know what the solution to interference is. It involves dimming your signal strength to help dim that interference, but your sound suffers tremendously by dimming the signal.