KTM 525 Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 KBB and Edmunds come up with identical invoice numbers for my LGT I am looking to buy. Standard GT model two options being the subwoofer and spoiler. An invoice price of 25,056 this includes a 575 destination charge according to Edmunds/KBB. My dealer claims a cost of 24,696 and wants 100 dollars over this for a cost to me of 24,796 (plus tax). I was sure to ask if that number included advertising, destination or ANY other charges to wich he replies "that price is out the door zero extra charges". He would have to order the car. Sooo his cost is 360 less than Edmunds lists do all dealers pay freight? Overall I am looking at 260 under invioce going by Edmunds numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerodox Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Edmunds is very good. Sometimes you can tell the edmunds info is out of date because the retail prices won' t match the window sticker. But if you figure the percentages of the items that changed, you can recalculate the new invoice price. Model-X MSRP =25,792 Invoice = $24800 (markup is 4%). Mdoel-X MSRP =26,307 (is +2% increase) so add 2% to the invoice. for your situation; validate here: [url]http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38236[/url] LGT = 26095 / 24018 SPOILER = 380 / 285 Subwoof = 273 / 178 DEST = 575 / 575. Invoice is $25,056. Run, do not walk down there and sign up! Caveat Emptor; he may be just trying to take you out of the market and will write you any thing, and bump you later. Just give him $300 deposit if you want this deal. Remember that at car dealers, like the USSR, even the past is uncertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperenvy Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Totally depends where you live and what not. I've never had edmunds or carsdirect get it 100% right. Mainly cause Subaru will do stuff like add $100 bucks to a car to all the cars in a certain part of the year and destination charge just went up here some too. So it's never 100% right and almost always no one checks to see if the prices change where they live (such as in NE where there is a surcharge). A real dealer should show you the thing if he's honest to you. 2017 F150 Platinum EB 2009 SWP Spec B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='KTM 525']KBB and Edmunds come up with identical invoice numbers for my LGT I am looking to buy. Standard GT model two options being the subwoofer and spoiler. An invoice price of 25,056 this includes a 575 destination charge according to Edmunds/KBB. My dealer claims a cost of 24,696 and wants 100 dollars over this for a cost to me of 24,796 (plus tax). I was sure to ask if that number included advertising, destination or ANY other charges to wich he replies "that price is out the door zero extra charges". He would have to order the car. Sooo his cost is 360 less than Edmunds lists do all dealers pay freight? Overall I am looking at 260 under invioce going by Edmunds numbers.[/QUOTE]KBB and Edmunds are typically very close to dealer costs for items. The only thing that I have found is that Edmunds sometimes identifies accessory items that are not yet in the delivery pipeline, e.g., air filtration system. FYI - Dealer cost is what the dealer pays Subaru for the vehicle and includes $575 Shipping/Delivery. The "invoice" lists the MSRP, Dealer Cost and Dealer Holdback. According to the most recent cost sheet I have (revised 22 July 04), which includes CA and Northeast States, an 05 LGT Sedan Dealer 5MT cost is $23,912 (+) 575 shpg/del = $24,487. Add in dealer cost of $178 for Subwoofer/Amp and $285 for the spoiler and you're looking at dealer cost of $24,950. Subtract dealer holdback of $1,040 from that price for dealer "cost". Be aware that there is a $220 Floor Plan and $30 Gas Allowance that the dealer may or may not factor into their "costs" which they will also then receive from Subaru similar to the dealer holdback. Also, Subaru just announced a price hike so there may be small (~1%) increase in costs from those listed below. Dealer cost breaks out like this: $23,912 LGT Sedan (+) 178 Subwoofer/Amplifier (+) 285 Spoiler [u](+) 575[/u] Subaru Shipping/Delivery $24,950 [u](-)1,040[/u] Dealer Holdback $23,910 Dealer cost If they are offering you the car for $24,696, which should include the $575 shpg/del), then they are making about $800 ($786) on the front end sale before any additional allowances from Subaru, e.g., floor plan and gas allowances, or any back end additions in F&I. It's up to you whether you want to dicker down the $800 or not but you might split the difference with them. That difference will probably pay your initial tag and license fees. Also, Subaru is offering incentive leash "cash" which you can use to lower the total amount "leased" (which should be dealer cost (-) lease cash). Some dealers will disclose the lease cash incentive and some won't. If you're going to lease, this is important to know. Also concur with Viperenvy's comment about a true dealer showing you the invoice so you can compare what you're told to what's listed. Just take your time reading it so you understand what costs you're really dealing with. HTH SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscooby Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Like most have said, it depends on where you are, what options are pre-installed on the vehicle, etc. Edmunds is generally accurate within a couple of hundred dollars. I paid $24000 for an '05 LGT Wagon 5MT, which is below invoice, so I consider myself lucky and with good timing, as the dealer now prices the same car at almost $27k (could probably talk down to about 26, but not much less). I'd say $24,500 is a fair deal for both parties. Most dealers wouldn't go that low unless inventory demanded it, so take advantage while you can. -SM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTM 525 Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 What is the 220 dollar floor plan? He did say the car comes with a full tank of gas. Thanks for all this info you guys have provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 [quote name='KTM 525']What is the 220 dollar floor plan? He did say the car comes with a full tank of gas. Thanks for all this info you guys have provided.[/QUOTE] As I understand it, the floor plan is Subaru compensation to the dealers for the cost (rent/lights/insurance) of maintaining their showroom where the Subaru products are highlighted. Intuitively, I know there is more to it than this, but cannot recall exactly what all is involved in this item. Viperenvy, SubaruofD, any other sales folks want to chime in on this item. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerodox Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Floor plan is where the cars on the lot are still owned by the manufacturer. When you buy the car, the dealer then buys the car from the manufacturer. Non-plan cars are bought by the dealer prior to sale. Manufacturer collects charges from the dealer for cars on plan, sorta like renting inventory until it's sold. If a dealer expected me to pay their plan charges, I'd balk. It was their business decision to rent their inventory and they failed to turn it fast enough. If you walk away, they still incurr more charges -- the meter is still ticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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