DO I "NEED" clay?

[OCDetails]

LOL I'm sure the farmers are thanking you for the rain dance. Sometimes I think that I'm the only one trying to keep my state out of a draught since I'm the only one who seems to be washing any cars. Anytime I spend a significant amount of time on a car then I know some freak rain storm is going to appear out of nowhere.

[Hokiebird]

I'm going to have to slightly disagree with you guys on the hand polishing. While I completely agree that a PC will do a better job of breaking down a polish and more effectively smooth the surface I think saying hand polishing doesn't work is too much of a blanket statement. Polishes like Scratch-X are designed to be used by hand. They aren't as effective as a more abrasive polish that needs a PC, but they have their place.

 

Not everyone wants to make the commitment to buying a PC and for some minor paint imperfections hand polishing may be just fine. So basically I agree with you guys, but I think it really comes down to what the goal for your paint is, the condition on the paint, and how much effort you are willing to put into maintaining that paint condition.

[OCDetails]

products like scratchX work well on individual scratches, but they are not effective on swirl removal for the entire vehicle. ScratchX is designed for more of a spot treatment. I use it for paint swapping from door dings and things like that all the time. When I say that polishing your car is a job for a machine, I'm not including the jobs that are small and don't include polishing the entire surface of the vehicle. You can do some things by hand, but if oxidation and swirl removal is your goal, then a machine is the way to do it. ScratchX doesn't operate with diminishing abrasives that are used for swirl removal, and therefore is pretty much only effective on isolated scratches. (thus the name 'ScratchX' and not 'SwirlX')

[Hokiebird]

That's just it. We don't know the condition of his paint so saying he needs to polish at all isn't necessarily the right recomendation. If it's a new car proper washing and paint protection is where he needs to focus.

 

I skimmed through the thread, but did anyone outline preventing swirls? That in my opinion is more important then how to polish out swirls. Since he is clearly new at detailing I would seriously doubt he knows anything about the 2 bucket method, mitts, or what to dry the car with.

[OCDetails]

There are other threads on that, actually. But it is a good point. Preventing swirls is just as important as removing them.

 

Also, the term 'polish' is a generic term that refers to paint cleaning and swirl removing at the same time. If a car hasn't been 'polished' in the last year, then it is proper to assume that it needs it. If nothing else than to remove the rust dots that IFO causes and that clay does not entirely remove. Clay will pull the contamination out, but polishing will remove the stains.

[mcsubgt]

Oc, first I am in total thanks to you for taking your time and energy to tell me all this information. You are completely right, I did it ass back words and essentially did not accomplish the goal of preserving my cars paint job. I will not argue this and certainly it would seem that I have a total lack of respect for what you said, this is not true however.

 

My initial goal was to make my car look very clean and shiny, that was it. I have accomplished this goal to my liking, and you are in part responsible for this.

 

Now the truth of tha matter is, after reading all these posts, I realized I didnt even know what the purpose of clay was initially! I thought it gave a really nice sheen or something (i really dont know what I thought it would do). So after reading these posts, and realising that I would accomplish my original task of making my car look clean and shiny without using clay, and saving time I went ahead and did it, and i am happy for it.

 

HOWEVER!

[mcsubgt]

Your posts were not for nothing! I understand that the way I did it was dumb, and that I will have to do more work next week, because I will have to wax it again. This is ok with me, although irrational since I could have avoided it all together by claying in the first place. I was simply to tired to do it. Its my moms car and she wants it clean so i made it so.

 

Again what you have taught me has registered, it has not been for naught! I believe that since I will in the future, be using clay, you have accomplished something with your time and effort here, you have taught me how to preserve the exterior of my car, and for that I thank you. So whether it is this week or next, and whether or not i have to do more work next week or not, your indespensible knowledge of car upkeep has not been lost on me. It will just be initiated next weekend rather than this weekend.

thx.

[iyalla]

That's just it. We don't know the condition of his paint so saying he needs to polish at all isn't necessarily the right recomendation. If it's a new car proper washing and paint protection is where he needs to focus.

 

I skimmed through the thread, but did anyone outline preventing swirls? That in my opinion is more important then how to polish out swirls. Since he is clearly new at detailing I would seriously doubt he knows anything about the 2 bucket method, mitts, or what to dry the car with.

 

I think you should read all the threads carefully I did mention that proper paint care and maintenance will limit the amount of times you need to break out a machine to do some heavy polishing.

What I got from the original posters first post was that his car was in need of a detail because he was asking about clay. So OCD, Brady and I kind of laid out enough information for him to do it. The discussion then turned to polishing and again we let him know what needs to be done.

Honestly I don't think anyone is trying to force him to polish and clay, the direction of the discussion was mostly initiated by the poster

 

Usually what happens is someone sees a picture of someone elses amazing car and goes "I want my paint to look like that" but they don't realize how labor intensive it is to get paint looking good. Sometimes I feel like Morpheus in the Matrix, take the red pill and i'll show you how deep the well goes lol I can't look at a car anymore without seeing swirls. Before I thought those cars looked good now I want to break out my PC!!

 

Believe me stick with the blue pill if you think your car looks good, and just wash and wax it with common over the counter stuff and be happy. I did that for years and I was really happy! Just avoid scratching the paint with harsh cloths and enjoy.

 

On the other hand if you want to jump into the realm of detailing (even good minor detailing with 80% correction), take the red pill and break out the check book cause its gonna cost you too and you'll never look at a car surface the same again

 

Choose wisely lol

[OCDetails]

I'm glad that it is registering somewhere. I don't know if you have been there yet, but http://www.OCDetails.com is where I keep all my knowledge. lol There is a writeup on the hows and whys of using clay in there that might shed some more light. Forgive the rough design. I'm still working on the new site. Too much time spent on other projects and not enough time spent on my own. lol

 

Anyway, as always, I'm just happy to help. This is my favorite topic to discuss and I'm always happy to be around others who feel strongly about the process of proper car care like I do.

[OCDetails]

I can't look at a car anymore without seeing swirls. Before I thought those cars looked good now I want to break out my PC!!

 

 

I know how you feel. I can't even attend car shows anymore other than to judge them. lol I don't know how many people are used to getting feedback on swirls and IFO when they have their car judged at a show, but they certianly get that from me. They usually bring me along to be the 'bad cop' that helps make the judging impartial. I don't care if it is my mother's car in the show... if it has swirls and waterspots, then it loses. lol

[iyalla]

^ LOL so true...Have you seen the Barretts Concours show thing on TV. Oh my goodness talk about swirl city its so painful to watch

[mcsquish]

OK, I might as well add my question, is there a brand of clay that should be avoided? Also are there any new sealants out on the market that can be found at a local Auto Zone type store that make the cut? I read most of the OCD site and I finally have a car I want to take car of. Just ask my GF, she is always giving me a hard time that I take better care of the car than her. I reply that at least she knows her place, and yes I have bruises......

________

Ford explorer specifications

[Brady]

is there a brand of clay that should be avoided?

 

Don't use Silly Putty.

[lejjasie]

Warning this may be a complete noob post...with lots of dumb question

 

I read this stuff and other threads and i honestly am a little confused. It did make me realize i am doing a complete sh*tload of a job waxing my car and thinking i accomplished a ginormous task.

 

I never have clayed it. Honestly i had to read about it on the ocdetails site. I can't picture it because i didn't even know what it was. From reading the stuff here and on the ocd i got the sequence right however...

 

1. Wash

2. Clay

3. Wash again

4. Polish

5. Wash

6. Wax Or Sealant.

 

Now why am i confused? read on...

1. Wash

I use Eagle one car wash liquid. I like it because i just spray droplets and it works up some serious foamy soap and i love how it picks up the dirt and grit and what not. I hope this sh*t is approved by people... is it?

 

2. Clay

Well no question other than i need to put it on and clean up all the stupid wax that i repeatedly put on it for weeks and being proud about it.

 

3. Wash again

..seems straighforward - just use as much soap to make sure the clay lube is gone. I believe the sign of successful wash is if the paint is dry and you don't see oily patches correct?

 

4. Polish

This is my BIGGEST confusion...so

a. Does car have to cool and dry at this time?

b. I do need a machine for this? I have a little simoniz rotary wax applicator/buffer thingy. I think it would do...

c. What to use as a polish...is there a brand of polish or are we talking about using some kind of applicator on the machine and that's it?

 

5. Wash again

??? I just polished it...washing but with SOAP?

 

6. Wax and/or Sealant.

Doing the half (or no rather) assed jobs with wax so far - i got accumulated

a. Meguirs cleaner wax

b. California Gold Cleaner Wax

c. Eagle one nanotex wax ...

...Are these any good?

...If not then i guess i will get S100 or do a search on the good ones.

...And then apply Sealant? do i let the wax dry up and then i buff with microfibre before putting sealant on? do i have to buff it after sealant? Sigh...

[OCDetails]

noob posts with dumb questions deserve their own thread. I really don't want to spend 20 minutes answering that and have it burried under the clay thread. Start another one and see what happens. It really would be best to seperate it so people will read it.

[malimx6]

To reiterate what we were all trying to teach you ...

 

There are 4-5 primary steps to proper paint care.

 

1) Wash

2) Clay

3) Clean paint

4) Polish

5) Protect

 

Ok, so why do I say 4-5, and then clearly list 5? Because 3-4 can be redundant if done together. More on that later.

 

1 - You want to wash the loose dirt and contaminants off of your car. This will prepare your car for all following steps.

 

2 - Washing your car only got rid of the easy dirt - now you need to get rid of the difficult dirt. This is anything that adheres or embeds in the paint. Examples are: Tar, Sap, Bugs, Brake dust, hardwater mineral deposits, Industrial Fallout. Using the claybar will remove all the stuff that is really stuck on the paint.

 

Compare Washing your car and Claying your car to washing your hands with water alone, and washing your hands with soap. Water alone will get loose dirt off, but you're going to need soap to get tough grease out of your skin.

 

3 - Clean the paint. Wait? Didn't you already clean it when you washed it and clayed it? Well, kind of. But a paint cleaner is a chemical cleaner, possibly with some light abrasives, that will help remove stains (again, from things like tar, sap, etc.) Most people choose to do this before polishing if they do both.

 

4 - Polish the car - Polishing, in it's most basic sense, is just scratching the hell out of your paint to hide scratches. Just like using sandpaper, you start really rough and get finer and finer until all those scratches become smooth. Well, swirls are just small scratches in the paint. A polish just makes smaller scratches that aren't visible to the eye until they're so fine it's a mirror finish. Polishing also usually cleans the paint about the same as using a paint cleaner. So this is why 3 & 4 can be redundant if used together. Some still choose to do both.

 

3 - Clean the paint (No, I'm not retarded). Some people choose to use a paint cleaner after polishing to ensure they have the best, cleanest surface for a sealant to bond with the paint. You can use whichever order you prefer. Or you can choose to clean before and after polishing - whatever floats your boat.

 

5 - Protecting your paint is a no brainer after you've spent a few hours doing all this work listed above. If you're going to go to all the work, a sealant is really the way to go since it does a better job of protecting your paint than wax. But either way, this is your last step. You now protect the paint.

 

Now, where this whole thing gets confusing for beginners, is that it's not like most processes where if you're only going to use some steps, you stop a whichever point you feel you want to stop at.

 

For example, if you only don't want to polish, you Still use steps 1, 2, 3, and 5. If you don't want to clay, now you do steps 1 and 5. If you don't want to wax, you just do step 1.

 

I've still WAY over-simplified this, and there's a TON to learn still, but this forum has all the information you'll need.

 

When I polished my car 2 weeks ago, I first washed the car, then clayed it, then washed it, then polished it (note: I skipped the cleaning step here), then washed it, then sealed it.

 

EDIT: To clarify the point of the process, I list 5 processes above. I would rank them in order of priority like this:

Level: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5

STEP: 1 > 5> 2> 4> 3

or

STEP: 1 > 5> 2> 3> 4 (whichever you prefer)

 

Meaning, whichever level of clean you choose to do should include all steps up to the priority level of your clean. Or inother words, for a step 3 clean, you would always Wash, Wax, and Clay, but you still follow the order of the steps.

 

Thanks Brady for taking your time and explaining the proper steps. I know this has been answered a few times, but it would clear things up if you, OC or someone else would like to tell me which products to use for each of those steps. You used a 5 step scheme, so if we can stick with that. I already have Clay Magic, and I know S100 (from Harley dealers?) should be the best wax, but what about polish? Is Klasse All In One for oxidation? Meguair's #83 for swirls? Which means, if the paint is oxidized (sp?) I should use Klasse AIO ONLY and if it has shine but a lot of swirls use Meguair's #83?? Please clarify.

Which product do you use to clean the paint in step 3? How do you apply it, by hand or PC?

Step 5, do you choose btw wax and sealant or can you do both? If both, which one first? Also, what products to use for sealant?

I know this could be very frustrating to experienced detailers, but I'd like to be sure, and probably a lot of newbies here.

If someone wants to start a new thread with this information I'd appreciate it, or if there's one already that has all this info in one thread summarized, please leave a link.

Thanks again for taking your time to explain all steps to proper paint maintenance.

[sofi]

what's the difference between polishing and waxing?

[mcsquish]

sofi, this site is awsome, it will answer your question and many more.

 

http://www.ocdetails.com/

________

VAPORIZER

[mcsquish]

Brady, I guess thanks...... and I wanted to take all the crap I pulled off (like we all did as a kid with newspapers) and see what kind of "art" I could make........

________

Digital volcano vaporizer cheap

[lejjasie]

Got it... Post going on separate thread.

[twisted]

I remember when i was a noob at this.

It s a lot of unfamiliar words and concepts. But the trick is to make a list of the steps and every piece of equipment needed for it. Follow the list down and its not so hard.

 

My 1st clay attempt...i was under-lubing and over working my arm. THen i figured out by accident the concept of appropriate lube and how easy it made the claying task. Corrected my mistake and watched all that gunk and IFO just disappear right in front of my eyes to my utter disbelief.

 

My 1st try with the PC...i was nervous but in 10 minutes i saw the results on one panel and i went "THIS IS EASY".

 

My only mistakes from last fall were.

-working in poor light condition on one of my cars caused me to miss a few spots when buffing the cleaner polish off. Those polish marks got sealed in once the sealant was applied. This summer when i redo it, i will check for any left over polish residue.

- didnt do jack shit to my wheels