Semi - Audio Upgrade

[oxide]

Looking to get a semi audio upgrade, by which I mean thumpin sound by keeping my dash clean (aka stock).

 

Which would mean stock 6-CD changer but upgraded speakers and/or sub.

 

 

I don't think the current speakers are too bad as such but at about 19-21 they begin to fret. But I rarely go louder than that, I haven't lost my hearing yet.

 

Here come the questions...

 

1. Is it worth my while going for a sub only upgrade?

2. If the answer to Q1 was NO, would it be worth my while to go for a speaker/sub upgrade with stock CD audio?

 

3. Obviously will need and amp, so..

Will door panels have to come off for an amp installation?

 

4. I answer to Q1 and/or Q2 is yes, which is the best brand speaker/sub to go for? (any experiences?)

 

 

Cheers!

[deneb]

I'd suggest upgrading the stock crappy speakers with a decent coaxial for the front doors. That will clean up the sound and provide a better stereo image (provided you disconnect the stock tweeters). That is what I found when replacing the stock speakers with Polk Audio DB 650's. I've done no other audio upgrades except for sound deadening material behind all 4 doors. Reducing noise by 3 db effectively doubles your amp power.

 

Do you already have the factory sub ugrade? If not, that might be a good upgrade, depending on what you're looking for in your audio system.

[FishingFiend]

I don't think the current speakers are too bad as such but at about 19-21 they begin to fret. But I rarely go louder than that

 

Though the crappy stock speakers are a part of this, it's more likely the crappy internal amplifier.

 

I believe before we can really answer your question, we'll need to know what you want out of your system and your budget.

[oxide]

deneb

 

I was thinking about the factory sub upgrade, it's not something I have yet, but while it may just add a little bass, I don't think it's going to clean up the sound overall.

 

 

FishingFiend,

 

Semi is the key word here including my budget, I'm not looking to go crazy with my stereo. While I like listening to a good clean tune I'm not looking into having gangsta parties around my car . Just as long as it's clean and not jarred.

 

I was just not particularly sure what was causing the jarring in the speakers (only fronts) at about 19-21, so wanted to know what bout be the most practical way to get rid of that, but also give me an upgrade in the whole sound package. The way I see it, it would be rather pointless going through the hassle of an upgrade only to get rid of jarring and absolutely no upgrade in sound.

[GetErDun]

I have built several systems over the last 15 years and I would have to say that if you are looking for thumping sound as your OP says, the oem sub is not the way to go (search for threads, they are your friend!).

 

I would start by upgrading the stock fronts? You will see several threads here about coax vs component. IMHO, components with seperate crossovers are teh only way to go. Then you could save up for a sub and an amp? Also I the sound deadning materials really help as well! God Luck

[thebadguy]

I dont know much about this except that is connects to stock head unit to make the signal going to amp cleaner. http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_cleansweep_pages.php?page_id=79

[deneb]

Well, if you're looking for a relatively inexpensive, 'semi' upgrade, I'd suggest upgraded coaxials in the front doors and add the factory sub. It won't rattle the doors or turn heads in the car next to you, but it does OK.

 

If you're looking for a stronger sound with some thump and more headroom, I'd suggest either coaxials or components in the front doors with an amp, and add an aftermarket 8 - 10" sub in the trunk.

 

What do you mean by 'jarring' in the front speakers?

[oxide]

cheers deneb. looked into which sub I wanted and going for a single or couple of 8" Rockford Fosgate subs. Are they a good brand?

 

Rockford Fosgate P28S4

 

What about the AMP, which one should I go for?

 

I'm headed out tomorrow to some new electronics superstore opened up here, hopefully will find some stuff worth my while.

 

With the above could I keep speakers stock? or should I upgrade the fronts?

[deneb]

You would likely fry the stock speakers if you added an external amp. I'd definitely upgrade the speakers before I'd add an amp.

 

Others on this forum are probably more up to speed on the brands these days, but I've used RF (Rockford Fosgate) amps in the past which performed very well. This is 10 - 15 yrs ago when RF was one of the industry leaders, not sure their stuff is any better than anyone else's these days. I also had a Kicker 10" sub in a small sealed enclosure which hit hard and sounded damn good when running it off a RF Punch 75 amp which was also driving Boston Acoustics component front speakers. I don't know if the RF amps these days are robust enough to set them up like that.

 

As far as subs/amps today, RF is probably fine. There are others out there that are good as well. It's really dependent on your budget. How much $ do you plan to spend? If it were me, and wanted something good but without breaking the bank, I'd go with the Polk 6.5" coax (Alpine coaxs' have been used by some here as well with good results, and they fit w/o depth issues as well IIRC), maybe one 8" sub depending on how much trunk space you want to give up (others have used the spare tire well I believe) and a decent amp - maybe one that has three channels (two for stereo and a higher power mono channel for a sub) which would be a nice setup that sounds good but doesn't rattle all your body panels.

 

You might take a look at the crutchfield website just to browse and see what's out there w/o having to listen to a salesperson sell you crap you don't need. www.crutchfield.com

 

Here's a suggested upgrade 'entry level' system:

1) 1 pair of Polk db 650's (Alpine 6.5" coax's have gotten good reviews as well and should fit w/o depth issues)

2) This sub: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ZJbZXjeln4t/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=109GTO804 It's an 8" designed for a small sealed box so it won't use too much trunk space. There may be other brands that perform better, I'm just using this as an example to show what's out there, there are many many options. A small sealed box won't go as low or as loud as a larger ported box, but I like the tight, punchy, articulate sound of a sealed sub. Loud n' low is fine, but definition is where it's at IMO. Plus with room gain, a small sealed sub will actually go pretty low once you put it in a car. In a nutshell, room gain has to do with the interaction of a cars' small interior space vs. the longer wavelengths of bass notes, they end up getting boosted. This effect is very pronounced in a car (it's a factor in home audio systems as well), it's why subs hit so hard in a car interior.

3) This amp: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ZJbZXjeln4t/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=489AP740 Use the back channels to power the sub. Again, this is just an example to show you what's out there.

 

Total cost: $310 but you'd still need a box, wires and interconnects, and an install.

 

What you might do is just upgrade the factory speakers, see how it sounds. You could then add the amp if you needed more power. Or, if you liked the sound and just wanted a little oomph to the bottom end, you could just add the factory sub and call it good.

[oxide]

wow! that's an awesome summary.

 

all of that info. will goa long way mate, thatnk you very much. There's too few a professional car audio store here, but will pay them a visit this week and tell them what I want based on this info. let's see what they say.

 

atleast I know I have help incase they try to sell me crap.

 

 

But I think I will end up doing it piece by piece just to see how it goes. Speakers first, OEM sub (hard to get) then amp and sub.

 

first I'm gonna sit down and do my homework on car audio. thanks again deneb!!

[deneb]

Glad I was able to help! I think your 'piece by piece' approach and starting out with front speakers is a good one. Don't forget to disconnect the factory tweeters if you add a pair of coaxials, let the superior tweeters in the coaxials take care of the highs. Good luck, and let us know what upgrades you end up with!

[NickB34]

#1 thing I would suggest is to dampen all four of your doors. It will make your stock speakers sound surprisingly good. If that isn't enough, then replace your door speakers as well. If still not enough then you can add an amp and sub. (I'm thinking stages here I guess).

[oxide]

Thanks Nick... been looking into dampening materials aswell along the way, any brand recommendations or are they all pretty much the same?

[deneb]

I'd stay away from dynamat personally. Not because it isn't any good, but that there are cheaper alternatives. IMO the best 'bang for the buck' noise reducing product is the v-comp from www.b-quiet.com Here's a thread I started on my v-comp install: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20069. A combo of this and their dynamat equivalent would work well (and just doing the v-comp by itself works just fine as well). Also, in my experience, there really isn't anything you can do to improve the stock speakers. They are $2 p.o.s. speakers.

[oxide]

ooh, that thread is quite interesting! I was looking into Dynamat because I saw it at crutchfield, but it's good there are cheaper alternatives to it.

 

Also, in my experience, there really isn't anything you can do to improve the stock speakers. They are $2 p.o.s. speakers.

 

LOL .. point taken. Honestly, if either myself or anyone else is going to take my doors apart, I might aswell be doing a worthwhile upgrade. People here can do weird things when door panels come off so while it has me worried, I still want a decent sound solution, so to ease my worries a bit, a worthy install must go into the work. Most prob done by professionals so I can go and hound them if they screw something up (or leave stuff out).

[bjmsdrum00]

i'm been thinking of doing the same thing, but heres my take on it : )

 

the factory speakers arn't that bad, i don't think anyway. they get loud without distortion, because when you turn up the stock head unit, the frequency response is FAR from linear. (theres some post on here about that) if you listen sometime, put the sound at about 18, then turn it up to like 28, and the bass level actually stays about the same, its just the mids and highs that get louder(the mids get louder more than the highs) granted this is NOT what you want in a high end system, but i really dont think it sounds bad in the car. personally, i'd like to have some more bass, so i'm eventually going to get a 10" sub for the trunk.

 

also, you said you noticed some "jarring" of the speakers around 19-20. what do you have your EQ set at? if you have any of them turned up past about 2, there will be some distortion at higher volumes. when you turn the music up loud, try dropping the bass, midrange, and treble levels all down to 1.

 

also, as i'm sure you already know, turning the radio up loud just sounds like crap : ) i was actually suprised how clear a CD is on the stock radio at high volume

 

also, the stock speakers outputs are realatively balanced when it comes to frequency response (i said relativly, don't flame i know on the coax speakers i've had in some of my other cars, i was playing with the EQ all the time to get it to sound rite, because of the high sensitivity of the tweeters and the low sensitivity of the woofer, it just didn't sound balanced.

 

anyway, thats my 2c.